Pope Francis Nullifies Redemptive Work of Jesus Christ

In no way am I trying to anger or cause problems with our Catholic readers with this article.  Actually, I am raising a serious alarm against his anti-biblical statement dealing with redemption.

During his homily at Wednesday’s mass in Rome, the Pontiff said:

“They complain.  If he is not one of us, he cannot do good. If he is not of our party, he cannot do good. And Jesus corrects them: ‘Do not hinder him, he says, let him do good.’  [The disciples] were a little intolerant, closed off by the idea of ​​possessing the truth, convinced that ‘those who do not have the truth, cannot do good.’ This was wrong . . . Jesus broadens the horizon.  The root of this possibility of doing good – that we all have – is in creation.”

"The Lord created us in His image and likeness, and we are the image of the Lord, and He does good and all of us have this commandment at heart: do good and do not do evil. All of us. ‘But, Father, this is not Catholic! He cannot do good.’ Yes, he can... The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!.. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.”

The very definition of an atheist is one who does not believe in God or in Jesus Christ as the Son of God.  In John 14:6, Jesus responds to Thomas saying:

“I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

In Romans 10:8-13 it says:

"The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame."  For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

No matter where I turn in the Bible, I read that you must believe in God and Jesus Christ in order to be saved.  Yet, according to the Pope’s latest statement, even atheists will be saved just for doing good.  They don’t have to believe in God or Jesus Christ, just do good.

If that’s the case, then how does Pope Francis explain Scripture such as Ephesians 2:8-9 which states:

“For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.” [Emphasis mine]

According to the Pope’s statement, we never needed Jesus to take the form of a man, live a sinless life, die on the cross and ascend into heaven on our behalf.  All you need to do is just do good works.  I know of a doctor who is an adamant atheist, but he donates to the poor, heals people in clinics for free and in general is a really great guy, but he adamantly hates Christians and anything to do with God and the Bible.  According to the Pope, this doctor is going to heaven even though he doesn’t believe.

The bottom line is that according to the Pope’s pronouncement, Christ’s redemptive work was all for nought.

I’ve pointed out similar teachings from Protestants over the years as well.  Robert Schuler, former pastor of the Crystal Cathedral told a television audience years ago that he compromised the Bible just to make people feel good about themselves, because after all, that’s what Christianity was all about.  I could go on with a list of other pastors that I’ve heard or have taken to task, but that is not the point I’m trying to make.  Whenever I hear of anyone giving a false teaching that is against what the Bible says, I sound an alarm so that others won’t be caught up in the deception and falsehoods.  I cannot, for the sake of Christ, remain silent on this issue and if I offended you, I’m sorry, but I strongly urge you to study the redemptive work of Jesus Christ and you will see that what I am saying is true.


  • patriotusa2

    "He who does not believe in Me, is already condemned."

    "When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. When he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me. I have come into the world as a light, so that no-one who believes in me should stay in darkness." (I'm not against Catholics either, as I am one of them.)

    —John 12:44-46

    • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

      JOHN PAUL II: MARY’S IN LIFE AND IN DEATH
      http://www.wayoflife.org/database/jpiimary.html

      • patriotusa2

        Believe whatever you want Raymond, just don't expect me to believe it, too.

    • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.
      • Bobseeks

        Excellent website!

        • patriotusa2

          Of course, to you anything anti-Catholic would be an excellent website.

        • Bobseeks

          Pro-catholic is anti-GOD. I just want to be on the right side. If you went to the website with a Bible in your hand, you would see it is telling the truth.

  • SolontheWise

    What is not understood in Roman Catholicism or throughout Christianity generally are the five eons. Paul writes in Galations 1:4 that we are living in "the present wicked eon" (Greek = AION). There are two eons to follow: the millennial eon (thousand year rule of Christ) and what is called the eon of the eons when there will be new heavens and a new earth. During those two glorious eons redeemed Israel will rule the earth under Christ, and the body of Christ will rule the celestial realms. All unbelievers will remain dead during those eons. But at the consummation, the end of the eons, when death is abolished, they will be reconciled to God through the blood of Christ, and God will become "all in all" (I Corinthians 15:22-28). Thus, those of us who are part of the body of Christ have a special place in God's purpose, not an exclusive one (I Timothy 4:9-12). Please see http://www.atruergod.com

    • Screeminmeeme

      That's not what my KJV says. Universalism is a heresy...as is soul sleep. Either God says what He means or He does not......and He said that trusting Christ ALONE is the ONLY way to salvation and eternal life with Him. Reconciliation, enabled by Jesus Christ, is a wonderful message but it requires belief and trust (faith) on the part of sinful man. While Christ paid the sin-debt of all mankind, each individual must be willing to either trust His sacrificial payment or they will pay for their own sins themselves: eternal damnation. (Mk 16:16)

      If what you say is true....that everyone is ultimately saved in the end and that there is no eternal punishment for anyone (except the devil and his angels) then why the command to spread a Gospel that requires faith on our part? Why evangelize anyone? Why not just tell people that there will be NO punishment for anything they do......go do anything you want and Hey! (shout-out to Sy)...after all is said and done...you'll be home free.

      Words have meaning and when Jesus spoke of ''everlasting punishment'', He meant everlasting.....eternal....ceaseless....endless...continuous. (Matt 25:41,46).

      Universalism is a ruse perpetuated by the Enemy of our souls, to lull the lost into believing that they are ''in free'' and have no accountability to their Creator. In light of the entire New Testament, your argument is nonsensical and a danger to your fellow man who desperately needs to know the truth.

      1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

    • patriotusa2

      We are all entitled to believe whichever Biblical interpretation we choose, but with the understanding that what we believe may not be true, according to St. Paul. Presumption is for fools who think they know everything and understand everything perfectly when the Bible clearly states that no one can ever know the mind of God, nor can any man ever have a perfect understanding of scripture. It is beyond presumption for anyone to even think that everything they believe in is absolutely beyond reproach.

    • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

      HOW REVELATION 17 PICTURES THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH
      http://www.wayoflife.org/database/rev17androme.html

      • patriotusa2

        In your opinion and the opinion of some other scholars. However, most scholars believe that the woman who rides the beast is Islam, and I concur. Rome sits on seven hills, but so does Mecca that sits on seven mountains, and Turkey sits on seven hills as well. It is the religion of Islam that rides the beast and the color purple represents royalty which they too have always possessed in their past kingdoms. You can believe whatever you want, but I could go on forever as to why I believe the beast is Islam and the false prophet to come will be their caliphate. It is not Rome who is trying to conquer the world nor the Catholics who kills all those whom they consider infidels. Elementary, Watson!

        • Bobseeks

          Most scholars think no such thing. Most scholars believe that the whore is the apostate Church which is, of course, the catholic church.

        • patriotusa2

          Wrong again, you narcissistic psycho. You are motivated by pure and simple hatred for the Catholic Church and probably all those Catholic relatives you spoke about in your family. Your descriptions of my licking the fingers of the Pope, is conducive to your repulsiveness and your ardent hatred for everything Catholic. You are a Christian in name only and equivalent to a Pharisee. One with a very coarse way of expressing yourself, but the hatred definitely comes through, loud and clear.

  • Bobseeks

    The catholic pseudo-church has been lying about what the Bible teaches for over a thousand years. Its worship of Mary is the foulest of blasphemies, it works based salvation mocks the sacrifice of Christ, and its persecution of those who point out its foul lies has given atheists fodder for criticism for centuries. GOD removed the gangrenous limb of the papist church from the body of Christ centuries ago.

    • Screeminmeeme

      Amen.

    • patriotusa2

      Well, it appears that we disagree on this one, as Mary in the Catholic faith is NOT worshiped, she is venerated as being the Mother of God, period. Insofar as your "gangrenous limb" being removed by God centuries ago, this is news to me. ALL religions have fallen short of the salvation of God, not just the Catholic faith! There isn't any religion on the face of this earth, yours or mine, that is in perfect symmetry of the Word of God or has not fallen short of apostasy in one way or the other. Anyone who thinks otherwise, is kidding themselves. I am quick to admit the mistakes of my religion, but also the mistakes of others.

      "To understand the true nature of any man, listen to what he says about religion and the religion of others."

      • Bobseeks

        Yes - we disagree. The papist church is a willing tool of satan and has nothing to do with Jesus. And, I guess your quote indicates that you are against the teachings of Scripture such as John 14:6.

        • patriotusa2

          You can believe whatever you chose to believe about me, but I can assure you that I am more of a Christian than you are as I have never, outside of the Muslim faith, been so contemptuous of other people's religions as you have exercised here today. All religions fall short of the glory of God and according to your comments, you do as well.

        • Bobseeks

          A rather arrogant statement coming from one who blasphemes Christ every time he goes to "church."

        • patriotusa2

          You are really a very hateful person to say something like that. I knew I would be in for problems when I admitted that I was Catholic, but I thought it would be coming from John or someone similar. Just goes to show you how wrong you can be about people and how not to judge a book by its cover. You being the perfect example.

        • John

          Of course not :) No one hates more than fellow Christians! I agree with you that Bob is a rather hateful and lost soul.

        • patriotusa2

          Well, we do agree on one thing, John, but I don't agree that no one hates more than Christians. That's a broad statement which actually is pretty impossible to prove. Nevertheless, I'm not arguing, just stating my opinion.

        • John

          I know, it's also just my opinion :) Sorry Bob picked on you like that after showing a bit of your personal side. That was rather mean of him and you shouldn't feel bad for it.

        • patriotusa2

          I don't feel bad, John, but it was decent of you to say that regardless. Bob's remarks are nothing compared to some others I've received. I was more or less, just taken aback by his remarks. All of us posters have been creamed at one time or another, and I'm no exception to the rule.

        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

          HARD NUTS FOR CATHOLIC APOLOGISTS
          http://www.wayoflife.org/database/hardnuts.html

        • patriotusa2

          Hang it up in regards to me, Raymond. You're beating a dead horse.

        • Bobseeks

          And a lost sinner who turned his back on Christ to lick the fingers of the pope. Raymond is offering you na lifeline. If you had a brain, you would take it.

        • patriotusa2

          You stupid, gullible fool, believing that Raymond can offer me a lifeline simply because he believes what you believe. BTW: your description of my licking the fingers of the pope is conducive to your own repulsiveness.

        • Bobseeks

          All liberals hate the truth.

        • patriotusa2

          You should know! BTW: it takes an arrogant fool to believe that only he knows the truth, and he alone - aside from those that concur with him, of course. Looks like you have more in common with liberals than what you're cognitive of realizing.

        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

          IS THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH CHANGING?
          http://www.wayoflife.org/database/catholicchanging.html

        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

          Is the Bible the sole authority for faith and practice? The Roman Catholic Church says it is not. The Vatican II Council affirmed that “both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honoured with equal feelings of devotion and reverence” (Vatican II documents, “Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation,” Chap. 2, 9, p. 682).

          Thus, Rome has boldly exalted its traditions to a status equal with Holy Scripture.

          http://www.wayoflife.org/database/soleauthority.html

        • patriotusa2

          I, and many Catholics like myself, don't believe in the teachings of Vatican II, and are more traditional Catholics.

        • patriotusa2

          BTW: Do you have any idea how many protestants attended that council? I know I do.

        • https://me.yahoo.com/a/CfsINEYDoex3fXYF.FLFCPOcXaFQros-#f30f8 jong

          I know of only one. A friend of my families. Rev Dr. Oswald Hoffman. And he brought back stories that told of a change in the Catholic Church also.

        • patriotusa2

          I use to know most of their names, but what I do know is that there were plenty of Protestants, Jews, Orthodox Russians, etc., etc. They all had a hand in changing the Church and the traditional mass. Those who think that this council was strictly a Catholic council are badly mistaken. Aside from the sacrifice of the mass - the entire service is identical to a Protestant service with the exception of the still remaining statues. They all came together in unity to meld all their churches into a new era of dialogue with the Muslims, etc. They call it ecumenical - I call it worldwide apostasy covering all denominations and religions.

        • https://me.yahoo.com/a/CfsINEYDoex3fXYF.FLFCPOcXaFQros-#f30f8 jong

          First of all I do like you Raymond. However, I also do believe that the Catholic Church has been changing. I give you two examples. At Vatican II a friend of my families Rev Dr. Oswald Hoffman was there for the LCMS. In the company of several cardinals at diner they all agreed that Martin Luther was correct in 98% of what he had said. That is quite a change from even a hundred years ago. The Pope before last even admitted that man is saved by grace alone.

        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

          Hi Jong,
          If you have the time go back over this thread and read
          all the information I posted on the Catholic church. I've
          also posted some very good links that expose the Catholic
          church. If you read carefully all that i've posted on the
          catholic church is will take you hours if not days.

          Did you know that islam is a creation and servant of
          the Vatican. The Vatican is utterly evil.

        • Ashley48

          This patriot poster is a lot better person than you are buddy! You're nothing but a self-righteous hypocrite.

        • Bobseeks

          And you are a moron and another tool of satan.

        • Ashley48

          You're a phony christian and the real tool of satan.

        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

          DID ROME FORBID VERNACULAR VERSIONS?
          http://www.wayoflife.org/database/vernacularversions.html

        • Avspatti

          When I was growing up, quite a long time ago now, Catholics in my area were discouraged from having and reading the Bible for themselves. They were to be kept dependent on the priests to know what is in the Word. Not true today.

        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

          THE CHRISTIAN RESEARCH INSTITUTE AND ROME
          http://www.wayoflife.org/database/criandrome.html

        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

          A SECOND PAGAN INVASION INTO THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH
          http://www.wayoflife.org/database/paganinvasion.html

        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.
        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

          Bob,
          you're right about the catholic church.

        • patriotusa2

          Only in your opinion, Raymond. Your hatred of the Catholic Church is well known.

        • Bobseeks

          Typical liberal - you equate the truth with hate.

        • patriotusa2

          Oh, now, I'm a liberal! Your use of the words liar, catamite and all the other crude language you use to describe others you loathe, is indicative to your wild and uncontrollable nature. Only a fool would consider it Christian, or possibly one who believes he's on some holy Jihad for the Lord.

      • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.
    • Sue Freivald

      Wow. It is amazing to see so much ignorance of what the Catholic Church teaches/is all in one paragraph. If you truly want to know what the Church believes/teaches (about everything you've stated here), read the Catechism and them come and we can have a rational discussion. You hate what you have heard and believe about the Church, but you have no knowledge of the Church. Go to the sources. Should I believe what someone who does not know you, says of you? Or should I seek from you the truth of yourself? Same thing.

      • Bobseeks

        All of my relatives on my dad's side were catholics and I probably know more truth of the papist church of satan than you do. I know about the lies of the immaculate conception, the lie of Mary's ascension, the lie of papal infallibility, the lies regarding purgatory, the blasphemy of praying to Mary and saints, the blasphemy of considering Mary to be a co-mediator with Christ, the blasphemy of the confessional, the lie of celibacy, and - well even a fool such as you should get the picture.

    • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.
  • John

    PRAISE THE LORD!

    How about them apples, eh? Atheists are just as redeemed by God as you believers.

    • Bobseeks

      Liar - atheists can be redeemed by GOD, but only once they repudiate their ignorance of the truth, repent, and turn to Jesus.

      • John

        Well, that's not what the Pope said, as you can clearly see.

        Who should we believe. You or the Pope? What a tough choice!

        • Bobseeks

          I am sure the pope welcomes the support of an atheist liar such as yourself. The fact that you support him only speaks to the fact that he is evil.

        • John

          What am I lying about? You are saying the Pope is evil? I think that when it comes to religion, I am going to take his word over yours.

          Using your idiotic logic, if I support you, does that make you evil too?

        • Bobseeks

          I have no fear that you will ever support me because you are a liar who hates the truth and I do spout lies like the pope.

        • John

          "and I do spout lies like the pope."

          Good, I'm glad you admit to spouting lies.

        • Bobseeks

          Typo John. So, now you agree that the pope is a liar?

        • John

          Nope, I agree that you spew lies.

        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

          John, Go back to motherjones.com

        • freedixie

          Hmmm, let me see; do I believe what the Bible says, or do I believe what the Pope, or anyone else says who teaches exactly opposite of what God's Word says? I think I'll stick with the teachings from God's Word. It speaks plain and clear. Jesus had no gray area in His teachings. He was quite clear when He said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, no man cometh to the Father but by me".

        • Randy Renu

          Stick with the Bible.

          I'm not sure if it's right or not, but I've always felt in the eyes of the Catholics, the Pope (messenger) is more important then the message.

        • patriotusa2

          You're right Randy. With some Catholics they do literally worship the Pope as I've said myself many times over, arousing distain among my fellow Catholics. However, not all Catholics make that mistake.

        • Randy Renu

          Yes.

          When I think of a messenger who is well known and a public figure...Billy Graham.

          He may not be as "powerful" as the Pope, but I know his position AND he knows to keep the focus and message on Him.

        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

          Every Catholic Needs to Read This.
          http://www.wayoflife.org/database/loveerror.html

        • Bobseeks

          Good post. John 14:6 is one the verses that separates the wheat from the chaff in the Church today. Those who believe that there are other ways to Heaven than Jesus are the chaff.

        • patriotusa2

          No one's denying that the road to salvation is through Jesus only.

        • blaineiac

          Far better for you to reject everything the pope says, and believe in Jesus Christ and read your Bible - that's all you need. Catholicism is a cult.

        • george

          If Catholicism is a cult, then all protestant religions that sprang from and trace their roots back to the Catholic Church are apostates of that cult and have NO authority, biblical or otherwise, for their teachings to stand on. Therefor, pick and choose your watered down version of Christ's teachings, as most are doing here, while the devil laughs at your ignorance and vanity. Saved by grace, but judged by works. Read your Bible. Christ said to Nicodemus that no one can be saved unless he is "born again" or baptized by water AND the Spirit (having authority to do so, not from man, but from God). It also says that no unclean thing can enter into the kingdom of God. Are you saying that the sinner that confesses Christ, even though they haven't received Him and the Spirit into their hearts, will be saved in the kingdom of God without baptism and sanctification through the Holy Ghost (by one having the authority to do so, as had the apostles)? If so, then you are deceived and will inherit another kingdom; "In my Father's House are many mansions". Study your Bible and don't rely on apostate preachers who are paid to preach and keep you in THEIR fold. Well intentioned, albeit, mostly.

        • Bobseeks

          Protestant churches rejected the teachings of the apostate popes and broke from the roman heresy. Look up the basis of the word "Protestant."

        • george

          Correct, Bob! And so the original church that Christ and his Apostles established, with it's authority was lost from the earth, because of the apostasy you mentioned. What you fail to recognize is that you can't get a new branch from a dead tree with dead roots, meaning an apostate version of Christ's Church, which is the Catholic Church you speak of. Which left the need for a restoration of Christ's Church, which the father's of the protestant movement all spoke of looking forward to occurring. Which it did.

        • patriotusa2

          Yes, they did look forward to it occurring, but unfortunately many turned out to be just as bad as those they condemned during the reformation.

        • patriotusa2

          While you're at it, look up what became of the Protestant church and the crimes and heresies they are guilty of as well. There is no Church that's perfect in their faith and never was!

        • Avspatti

          And never will be until Jesus returns. Churches are made up of human beings who are sinful and in frequent need of forgiveness.

        • patriotusa2

          You're exactly right!

        • Bobseeks

          The world's biggest cult and with the blood of millions on its filthy hands.

      • patriotusa2

        We agree on this one.

        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.
        • Bobseeks

          Amen.

        • patriotusa2

          Amen to you too, Bob! Don't know what religion you follow but I'm sure it isn't anymore perfect than mine.

        • Bobseeks

          I follow Christ - not some catamite pope.

        • patriotusa2

          I'm sure, but intellect and facts dictates that ALL religions are guilty of heresies.

    • Tommyzax

      That's not what the Pope meant.

      • John

        Really? Because that's what his words said.

    • Randy Renu

      You have a better chance of seeing heaven if you accept the Pope as your personal savior.

      Always work WITH the drugs and the delusions.

      • John

        I bet it made you pretty mad to find this out, huh?

        • Randy Renu

          You are really delusional.

          Why would I care about what the Pope has to say??

          I'm really mad to find out you're still posting on this site.

          I got rid of Jesus Jones, and you're next.

        • Bobseeks

          John is a sign that this site needs some liberal roach poison.

    • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

      DID YOU KNOW THESE FACTS?

      Death is certain but the Bible speaks about untimely death!

      Make a personal reflection about this.......

      Very interesting, read until the end......

      It is Written in the Bible (Galatians 6:7)

      'Be not deceived; God is not mocked:
      For whatsoever a man sow, that shall he also reap...
      Here are only some men and women who mocked God:

      John Lennon (Singer)
      Some years before, during his interview with
      An American Magazine, he said:
      Christianity will end, it will disappear.
      I do not have to argue about that...
      I am certain. Jesus was ok, but his subjects
      were too simple, today we are more famous than Him" (1966).
      Lennon, after saying that the Beatles were more famous than Jesus Christ,
      Was shot six times.

      Tancredo Neves (President of Brazil)
      During The Presidential campaign, he said if he got 500,000 votes
      From his party, not even God would remove him from Presidency.
      Sure he got the votes, but he got sick a day before being made President,
      Then he died.

      Cazuza (Bi-sexual Brazilian
      Composer, singer and poet)
      During a show in Canecio (Rio de Janeiro),
      While smoking his cigarette, he puffed out some
      smoke into the air And said: "God, that's for you."
      He died at the age of 32 of LUNG CANCER in a horrible manner.

      The man who built the Titanic.
      After the construction of Titanic, a reporter asked him how safe the
      Titanic would be. With an ironic tone he said: "Not even God can sink it"
      The result: I think you all know what happened to the Titanic.

      Marilyn Monroe (Actress)
      She was visited by Billy Graham during a presentation of a show.
      He said the Spirit of God had sent him to preach to her.
      After hearing what the Preacher had to say, She said:
      "I don't need your Jesus".
      A week later, She was found dead in her apartment.

      Bon Scott (Singer)
      The ex-vocalist of the AC/DC. On one of his 1979 songs he sang:
      "Don't stop me; I'm going down all the way, down the highway to hell".
      On the 19th of February 1980, Bon Scott was found dead, he had been
      choked by his own vomit.

      Campinas (IN 2005)
      In Campinas , Brazil , a group of friends, drunk,
      Went to pick up a friend......

      The mother accompanied her to the car and was so worried about the drunkenness
      of her friends and she said to the daughter holding her hand, who was already seated in the car:

      "My Daughter, Go With God And May He Protect You."
      She responded: "Only If He (God) travels In the trunk, cause inside here..... It's already full."
      Hours later, news came by that they had been involved in a fatal accident, everyone had died,
      the car could not be recognized what type of car it had been, but surprisingly, the trunk was intact.
      The police said there was no way the trunk could have remained intact. To their surprise, inside the
      trunk was a crate of eggs, none was broken.

      Christine Hewitt (Jamaican Journalist and entertainer)
      said the Bible (Word of God) was the worst book
      ever written. In June 2006 she was found burnt beyond
      recognition in her motor vehicle.

      Many more important people have forgotten that there is no
      other name that was given so much authority as the name of Jesus.
      Many have died, but only Jesus died and rose again, and he is still alive.

  • Screeminmeeme

    Da Tagliare.......Missed you! Happy to see you're back.

    And I agree with you....but sadly there are too many professing Christians, even, who don't know their Bible well enough to realize that what you're saying is true. Jesus himself said narrow is the way to life...that exclusively trusting Him alone is the only way to salvation.

    God has made the unmerited gift of eternal life available to all .through the sacrifice of His Son....but it's up to every man to either accept or reject that gift and trust Christ alone to save them.

    • Bobseeks

      Today's post reveal the truth of what you say. The Church is infested with liars and apostates who have no clue that the "narrow way" does not allow for false teachings and "roll your own" doctrine.

      • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.
        • Bobseeks

          Good website - tells the truth about the lies of the roman heresy.

        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

          It is a good website.

          If you get the chance read a book called
          "Woman Rides The Beast." by Dave Hunt.
          I promise you will be glad you did. This
          book is about the Vatican.

        • patriotusa2

          No it is not! That is your interpretation. Mine and many others is that the woman who rides the beast is the Mother of all whoredoms - the Islamic religion.

        • Bobseeks

          Liar - while islam is evil, the catholic heresies and blasphemies are older and have led more people to satan than even islam. The whore is the catholic church.

        • patriotusa2

          Goes to show you how much you know! Nothing!

        • https://me.yahoo.com/a/CfsINEYDoex3fXYF.FLFCPOcXaFQros-#f30f8 jong

          I would say man not the true church has done so. Even Luther looked to reform not destroy the church but, to bring it back to scripture.

        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

          Islam is a child and servant of the vatican.

        • Bobseeks

          Thanks - I hope to get a chance to read it.

    • Screeminmeeme

      To those (Christians/Catholics) who disagreed with my post, I have one question:

      Why would you want to rob Jesus Christ of ALL the glory due HIM ALONE for your salvation? If you believe that you must ADD to His sacrificial work by YOUR good works, then you are declaring that His sacrificial death was insufficient...and what He could not do, YOU can. That is a direct assault on the Son of God.

      From Adam onward, man has always wanted to take some credit for his own salvation...and these many millenia later, things are still the same.

      BTW...I am not saying the Christians should NOT be known for doing ''good works''. What I am saying is that those good works testify to the change that has been wrought in us, but have nothing to do with earning or maintaining our salvation. They are a natural outgrowth of an inward change and authenticate our claim to be Christian.

      Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ,that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW SHALL NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED.

      Tit 3:5 NOT BY WORKS of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

      Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto GOOD WORKS which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

      I am grateful to be saved, sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption, accepted in the Beloved, justified by His blood, imputed with HIS righteousness, blessed with ALL spiritual blessings, and COMPLETE IN HIM....and Christ alone gets all the glory for it.

      And THAT is available to everyone.

      • OldVet

        Poor thing. Someone disagrees with her posts.

        • Screeminmeeme

          LOL....Oh..I'm not threatened when someone disagrees with my posts. I'm a big girl so I don't suffer from fear of rejection. In fact, I relish a good debate and divergence of opinion. But nice try, anyway.

  • James White, M.D.

    Here, children, is a simple thought from an old Christian physician, who has spent forty years treating patients and praying with them: learn what you can from the Bible, the sacred word of The Lord; live an exemplary Christian life in God's service; and leave God's decisions in God's hands. You may rest assured that God knows what He will do, in all situations including the many that are beyond the simple minds of men.

    When Jesus Christ lives fully in your heart, you serve Him in all ways, and do your best to spread the Gospel to those lost souls who refuse to comprehend, then, and only then should you pass your hours and days guessing, for example, what God does with an innocent child's soul, which child might be born on a small island in the south Pacific where no missionary has yet travelled to bring the "good news." Or what the Pope meant, when saying words such as these above. Dominus vobiscum.

    • patriotusa2

      Spoken like a true Christian with no malice toward the Christian religion of others. I couldn't agree more with every word written thereof, as many remain in remote places of this world that have not yet heard the name of Jesus nor are they acquainted with His Word. It could very well be that the Pope did mean those specifically mentioned by you. If so, who could possibly deny that those unfortunate souls would be saved by the Grace of God according to how well they have lived their lives. I sincerely hope that this is what he did mean.

      • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

        "Christian religion of others."

        There is no such thing....................

        Why Is Mary Crying? http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0040/0040_01.asp

        • patriotusa2

          Anyone who believes in Christ is considered a Christian. "He who is with Me, is not against Me."

    • OldVet

      Bravo to you and Patriotusa2 . Seems like you both practice what you preach!!!

    • Bobseeks

      I take it then that you have no regard for the teachings of Scripture? You sound more like Joel Osteen than Jesus.

      • James White, M.D.

        What I have no regard for, my friend, is your opinion of what I glean from scripture, or anything else. I know not who Joel Osteen is (doesn't he make blenders?).Pax vobiscum.

        • Bobseeks

          I am not your friend. You obviously approve of the lies of the popes.

        • Ashley48

          Grow up!

        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.
        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

          Hi Bob,
          it's clear he does.
          Did you notice that he used the words "Dominus Vobiscum"
          at the end of one of his posts? Look it up.

        • MGL2012

          Dominus vobiscum means "peace be with you" or 'shalom". What's wrong with that? Jesus said it all the time and so do Jews and Catholics.

          Don't let you prejudices against Catholics blind you. By the way Marine "Semper Fidelis" is also in Latin. Is that a problem too?

        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

          Dominus vobiscum, a Latin phrase meaning "The Lord be with you", is an ancient salutation and blessing traditionally used by the clergy in the Roman Catholic Mass.

        • Bobseeks

          Yes, the "good" doctor is just another example of a mealy-mouthed people-pleaser. Just the opposite of who Jesus was.

        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.
      • turfbarn80

        I get the Joel Osteen comment. How about Rob Bell? But isn't there a scripture that says that the pagan will be judged less harshly than someone who hears about Christ's salvation and rejects it? I'm still looking for it.

        • Bobseeks

          True - Bell is another liar and tool of satan. You may be thinking about Matthew 10:13-15, the first chapter of Romans, or Luke 12:10.

        • turfbarn80

          Hey thanks.

      • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.
    • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.
      • Bobseeks

        Excellent - every papist should read this and turn away from the lies of rome.

        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

          I once had a catholic tell me that they were
          not interested in learning the truth about the
          catholic church.

        • patriotusa2

          Your truth more than likely was not their truth, nor mine as well. Simple as that. Why you are one of those who follow me on Disqus, Raymond, is dubious. Could be you just wait for the right time to pounce.

        • Bobseeks

          There is only one truth and you do not have a clue what that truth is.

        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

          You're lies are leading people into hell.
          I'm here counter your lies with God's
          Word and you do not like it. OH WELL

        • Bobseeks

          Probably the only honest catholic you ever met. They want to wallow in their ignorance.

        • Sienna

          The Bible was written by the Roman Catholic Church. It's the only Christian Church that can trace it's history directly back to Jesus Christ. If you read the early Church Fathers, (the ones immediately after Christ, who were eventually the ones who called the Council which collected and approved the New Testament (the Old Testament is from the Jews and is the Scriptures which Jesus refers to). Jesus promised that the "gates of Hell" would not prevail against His Church. One has to believe that the almighty and perfect God, meant from His time on earth till the end of time.

        • Bobseeks

          That is not in the least bit true - the Bible was written by the Holy Spirit working through men. The Roman Catholic heresy did not even exist when the Bible was written. All the papists did was translate the Bible and then lie about what it teaches. The roots of the papist church are in satan, not in Jesus.

  • Tommyzax

    All you have to do is follow Torah. One God, one Law. Christ is the Law, the Son, the Word. Do the commandments for eternal life. No one gets in unless they do the commandments. Do everything the Pharisees tell you to do.

    I am the Way (the Law), the Truth (the Law), and the Life (the Torah).

    Don't want homosexuals in the Boy Scouts? Not about Grace, it's about Law.
    Don't want corrupt politicians? Not about Grace, it's about Law.
    Don't want a communist country? Not about Grace, it's about Law.
    Don't want sharia? Not about Grace, it's about Law.

    Pharisees: "Why don't you wash your hands before you eat?" (doctrine)
    Christ: "Why don't you honor your mother and father?" (Law)

    • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

      There is only one way to heaven and
      here is how to get there.

      http://www.chick.com/the_story_of_jesus/

    • Screeminmeeme

      God's standard is 100% perfection and apart from the incarnate Christ when He walked the earth, there is no one.....zero, zip, nada....no one who is able to keep the law 24/7.

      And, BTW, which laws are you talking about? All 613 of them....just the Ten....or the two that Jesus commanded his followers keep? IF all a man has to do to receive eternal life is do good works, then Christ died in vain.

      Your understanding of the work of Christ is flawed if you believe that man can, in any way, contribute to His work. He took our sin (served our sentence of death) so that we can be IMPUTED with HIS righteousness. He took our sin.....we get HIS report card. What a wonderful gift of grace ...and HE ALONE gets all the praise and glory for it!

    • ezekiel22

      Paul fond out about 2000 years ago that the Law falls short for salvation.

      • Randy Renu

        I think there is something in Corinthians regarding people who don't know Christ "before the law" which would be the New Testament.

        Not sure where the verse is, but I think those that did not know Christ in the Old Testament, may have gone to heaven. If you don't know, you can't be held accountable....????????????

        • ezekiel22

          An example if I read you correctly would be the story of the beggar Lazarus and the rich man. It was a story told by Jesus with a difference. Jesus did not treat it in any way as a parable as many of the stories were. He treated it as a fact and a real event. Lazarus who was the beggar was in the "the Bosom of Abraham" while the rich man was suffering in another place. Jesus to the repentant thief on the cross told him that today he would be with Christ in Paradise not Heaven. Christ also descended into the earth to preach to the souls imprisoned there. It seems that the patriarchs and those that did obey the law of righteousness did go to a place of rest until Christ's redemptive work was finished.
          Following the Law with all the shalt nots and shalts so to speak was in itself inadequate. You could be absolutely obedient to the Law yet step outside stub your toe cuss and go to a bad place. King David did a few sins such as adultery and murder yet God called him a man after His own heart. It was the law of mercy and righteousness that looked forward to a Savior that David followed and was deemed righteous despite his sins. I hope this helps.

    • KayDeeBeau

      But I have not come to condemn the Law but to fulfill the Law.........

  • Randy Renu

    Don't apologize for the Bible, and don't apologize for upsetting the Catholics....or anyone else for that matter.

    The atheists and perverts will always be upset and defensive when challenged with the Truth.

    The Bible makes it clear how one receives eternal life. There are NO exceptions regardless of how we would like to see those having not heard the Word to have eternal life. This is why God is waiting so long to return; He wants everyone to have the opportunity to hear about His gift of grace.

    Get to work. Spread the Good News so everyone has the opportunity to receive the gift of life....remember, in the end, the non-believer will only be held accountable for what they know. Most of them "know" yet have refused to accept.

    • KayDeeBeau

      And We who know and do not tell, and we who know and cause stife among the body, will be held accountable.....

      • Randy Renu

        YEP.

        Sin of knowing what to do and not doing it. That has got me BIG-TIME!!

        • KayDeeBeau

          Me too :0

        • Randy Renu

          Couldn't remember what it's called: SIN OF OMISSION.

          When I pray for forgiveness, this is the one, among a bunch of others that gives me trouble.

          Lazy.

  • Albert Maslar

    When the Pope speaks ex Cathedra, it is only in regard to faith and morals for the entire universal church, which is the only place the Pope can declare dogma with finality. A sermon is not by itself ex Cathedra unless so declared. By virtue of his Apostolic authority, speaking ex Cathedra, the Pope is authorized to define a doctrine regarding faith or morals to be held by the universal church with protection from error by Divine assistance promised to him and is ONLY then possessed of infallibility. This is a rarely used function of the Pope and some Popes NEVER make a declaration ex Cathedra.

    • Bobseeks

      The popes are pathological liars and servants of satan.

    • passingby

      "for the entire universal church"? I'm sure you meant to say "for the Roman Catholic Church", since the Protestant Reformation came about because people didn't accept that the pope spoke for them. So much more could be said concerning the schism that led to "Protestantism", but I'll merely leave my comment as stated above, which, in essence, is a question...is that what you meant to say..."for the Roman Catholic church"? Because, as you know, the pope cannot declare dogma for Protestants...

      • KayDeeBeau

        The actual meaning of the word Catholic is - Universal Church and since there is but one Shepherd, there is but one Church. (I'm an Evangelical Southern Baptist - and even I know this to be true - I think I still qualify as a "protestant")

        It is only the sheep who seem to make distinctions, the Shepherd is pretty clear.....http://maxlucado.com/read/excerpts/life-aboard-the-fellowship/

        • passingby

          Actually, the actual meaning of the word Catholic is - relating to the Roman Catholic Church; the actual meaning of the word catholic is - universal; at least in the simplest definitions that apply to this topic. Please note the upper case "C" in my post, which I thought denoted that distinction. I had already read the document your link takes one to, and the word "Catholic" only appears once in it, and it's used according to the meaning I espouse. I'm somewhat perplexed by your parenthetical comment; are you saying that as a Southern Baptist, you accept the dogma declared by the pope (taken from Mr Maslar's post) when he's speaking "ex Cathedra"? I'm sorry to take your time with this post, because your comment doesn't actually have much to do with my question to Mr Maslar - but you seemed to be trying to "instruct" me, and I felt a need to let you know I'm aware already of the meanings of the word you defined for me (incompletely, if you'll be honest about it). Since you go further in your comments, I'm compelled to ask if you think the LDS is part of the Church of the one Shepherd? And Oneness Pentecostals? And Jehovah's Witnesses? And others that don't believe Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life? And He alone, through grace alone, by faith alone?

          And as far as you qualifying as a "protestant", in my humble opinion, you don't IF you hold to the tenets of the Roman Catholic Church, which is the entity the reformers were protesting against! I mean no personal affront here, just that when we communicate with words, the only way we can do that is to use the definitions of those words, and if you agree with the Roman Catholic Church, you're not protesting against it, are you?

          My question remains unanswered; perhaps Mr Maslar will answer it for me, as I still assert that the pope doesn't speak for the protestant churches - denominations, if you prefer.

          Your post did make me think, and that's always a good thing (most always, anyway). Thanks...

      • Albert Maslar

        "Catholic" is from the Greek meaning "Universal;" but that is missing the point that there are not some 30,000 DIFFERENT Christian churches in the US, because all denominations are really one as Jesus said "Thou art Peter (Rock) and upon this rock I establish my church. We might be different colors of Christianity but all are Christian or they are not. Jesus said those that are not against me are with me, and a human being, I cannot propose that I know or understand all the nuances of what Jesus said. All I can do is the best I can do which as a human being, is difficult without divine help.

        • passingby

          My, my, my...why does everyone want to instruct me on the definitions of the words Catholic and catholic? I full well know the definitions, and even gave those definitions in a reply found below our conversation

          I assume you mean that you said what you meant and meant what you said. Then I outrightly contradict you, as the pope doesn't declare dogma with finality for the protestant church - my point from the outset...remember the Protestant Reformation?

          And even if I agreed with your interpretaion (which I do not) that Jesus established his church on Peter (Rock), as you purport, I would have to ask where does it say anything about those who would later assume the position that Peter supposedly held, thereby making their words (in the particular situation you mention - ex cathedra) infallible? I believe Jesus meant he established his church on the truth of Peter's response: You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God.

          "what you bind on earth will be bound in heaven" has a different interpretation/translation: "what you bind on earth will have been bound in heaven", meaning he would be able to speak the truth as it already is, not create truth by his words...

          Needless to say I'm not a Roman Catholic, and the pope doesn't speak to me, ex cathedra, or otherwise...isn't this one a Jesuit? If you've ever read the Induction and Extreme Oath of the Jesuits you'll understand why this pope, in particular, doesn't speak to me, a Protestant.

          I appreciate your time on this matter...I actually did think you had misspoken when you said the entire universal church, and instead meant Roman Catholic Church; but I see by your response that you must mean the entire universal church, which is a misspeak (if that's a word when used as a noun) itself, because he does not speak for the Protestants...

  • turfbarn80

    It doesn't sound like the pope directly said everyone is saved, but that doing good is a starting point for non-believers. His vagueness is disturbing, though. I hope he doesn't come out with a promise of automatic and un-requested salvation, because this would herald the beginning of the "one world religion." a false doctrine.

  • simpletony1

    I was raised catholic but was saved when I accepted our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and asked Him for the forgiveness of my sins. No matter who they are the acceptance must precede and is the only way one can be saved. It's just that simple. Period. Paragraphs, pages and books have been written about this but it's just that simple. Believe and Accept our Lord Jesus Christ and I'll see you there.

    • Screeminmeeme

      Amen.

      God made his message of grace easy to be understood by even the simplest among us. It's man who complicates things.

      Ps 119:130. The entrance of the Word giveth light. It giveth understanding even unto the simple.

    • MGL2012

      You show me your faith apart from works and I'll show you my faith through my works. Even demons demonstrate faith and shudder when they hear about Jesus Christ. Read the Book of James and you'll begin to understand the relationship between faith and works according to what the Church teaches and not someone's personal opinion.

      • KayDeeBeau

        I will repeat myself -

        Faith without works is dead but work without faith is pointless (the Gospel of James and Karen) ......For by Grace are we saved thru Christ Jesus, not of works lest any man should boast.

        We do good works as a testament to our faith and to be like Jesus and as evidence of our faith in Him.

        Our works do not save us, because we are saved, we do good works. If we do good works without being saved, that is nice but gets us no where in the end - except eternal damnation in Hell.....

    • patriotusa2

      I'll be seeing you there someday, Tony!

      • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

        The Bible version issue made simple

        In simple layman's language, Barry Burton explains the
        basic issues in the Bible version controversy...and makes
        it easy to understand why the King James is the only Bible
        you can trust.

        In Let's Weigh The Evidence, you will learn the following:

        Origins of the King James Bible
        The King James Bible Version is from the Textus Receptus,
        or Received Text.

        Facts About the Vaticanus
        It leaves out 237 words, 452 clauses and 748 whole sentences,
        which hundreds of later copies agree together as having the same
        words in the same places.

        The Unreliability of the Siniaticus
        Examined by John Burgon, he writes about the Siniaticus,
        "On many occasions 10, 20, 30, 40 words are dropped through
        carelessness. Letters, words or even whole sentences are frequently
        written twice over, or begun and immediately cancelled; while that gross
        blunder, whereby a clause is omitted because it happens to end in the
        same words as the clause proceeding, occurs no less than 115 times
        in the New Testament."

        Westcott and Hort
        Read quotes made by Hort: "The old dogmatic view of the Bible therefore,
        is not only open to attack from the standpoint of science and historical criticism,
        but if taken seriously itbecomes a danger to religion and public morals."

        Copyrights
        The following versions have copyrights: Revised Standard Version,
        New American Standard, Living Bible, Good News Bible, New International Bible,
        New Scofield, and more. According to the New Standard Encyclopedia vol. 3, page 565,
        the definition of a copyright is, "The legal protection given to authors and artists to prevent
        reproduction of their work without their consent. The owner of a copyright has the exclusive
        right to print, reprint, publish, copy andsell the material covered by the copyright." By taking
        out a copyright on a so-called "Bible", the copyright owner admits that this is not "God's Word"
        but "Their own words."

        Side-by-side Verse Comparisons Show Modern Versions Have Attacked Fundamental Doctrines
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        and much, much more!

        http://www.chick.com/catalog/books/0184.asp

  • Jonathan A LaBenne

    Excellent article! I am not surprised!~ We are in the last days of Grace! But all who put thier trust in the redepmtive work of the Lord Jesus Christ will be saved! None shall be saved any other way! For be grace are you saved through faith and that NOT of yourselves it is the Gift of God, NOT of works lest any man should boast! Ep 2:8 and 9 Without doubt a relationship with Jeuss Christ as Lord by Romans 10:9 is the only salvation any man can obtain. To have any other way is eternal hell ahead!

  • Kaitty

    One, must understand the context of the WHOLE BIBLE especially the New Testament. One must Hear/learn, understand, read, and then Believe/obey, Confess belief, Repent of past sins, and be Baptized/immersed for the washing away of past sins and joining The Christ symbolically in the death-burial-resurrection to arise clean and a new person into His Body/Church. There after continuing to grow in the Word by studying and praying daily and communing in fellowship with other believers/saints-eklessia-congregation. Without knowledge there can be no understanding. Each is responsible for their own salvation through The Christ.

  • ansonheath

    Personally, I am not sure what the Pope exactly meant and care even less, but the author's article reminded me of something that always fascinated me. As the author noted, "I know of a doctor who is an adamant atheist, but he donates to the poor, heals people in clinics for free and in general is a really great guy, but he adamantly hates Christians and anything to do with God and the Bible."
    I have known people like that. I have also known those who can quote every verse of the Bible when needed and cite all the right relationships with our Savior, but I would not enjoy spending any extensive time with them or trust my grandkids to their care. Why? They reeked of self-righteousness!
    This sort of relates to Romans 2, particularly verses 13-16 - 'For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them'.)
    My point is that we as Christians are too often too quick to condemn, and not judge a man by his fruits. If, as the author states, the atheist doctor is truly ' a great guy', what exactly makes him so? There is no obvious behavior noted that he 'adamantly hates' Christians.
    Question: How can he be both? Maybe my judgment basis is different, but these two statements are self contradictory.
    You might want to read all of Romans 2 to get the perspective. To me it means that I would rather live next door to a 'great guy' atheist than a self-righteous Bible thumper.

    • ConservaDave2

      I agree. Sad that Jesus and Christianity are so often judged by unbelievers who have used the witness of blatantly hypocritical "Christians" as their point of reference. "In My Father's house are many mansions..." said our Lord. Could there be Muslim "mansions," Buddhist "mansions," and maybe even atheist "mansions" in His house? Part of the problem is when Christians falsely interpret Jesus' words, "...I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh to the Father but by Me..." to mean, "no man gets into heaven except by believing in Jesus as the Messiah." When did the words "Father" and "heaven" ever become synonymns? What happens to those living "the way, the truth, and the life" but not attributing these things to Christ? Conversely, what of those "believers" who deny Him by not living "the truth, the life, and the way?"

      • Screeminmeeme

        Words have meaning. Your exegesis of the passage in John 14 is totally fractured. You don't know what you are talking about. There are really only two religions: God's and the many false belief systems driven throughout the world by the Devil.

        Jesus said that HE is the way to eternal life. He claims so in multiple passages. Apart from Christ, there is NO SALVATION...ONLY JUDGMENT. THAT is what the Bible clearly teaches and none of your flawed argumentation will change it.

        • ConservaDave2

          Sorry, you've been brainwashed by Churchianity. In Matthew 7 Jesus talks of those who "Call Him 'Lord'" yet somehow have missed the boat. How did just "knowing" the name of the Messiah help these people? True, His is the only "way" of salvation, but think beyond the shallowness of what many think it means. Support your claims scripturally and just don't listen to the "old wine skins" coming from the seminaries. "Come out of her [Babylon, false religion], My people, that you be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." --Revelation 18:4

        • Screeminmeeme

          Again...a very flawed understanding of Scripture. When it comes to being brainwashed, you might want to take a long look in a mirror.

          The whole of Jesus' teaching was that one is saved only by trusting Him alone. He taught in the parable that there would be ''tares among the wheat''......phonies, posers in the church....people who professed to be a Christian, who looked like the genuine article...but who, in the end, would be judged as the unbelievers they are.

          BTW: The Sermon on the Mount..Matt 5-7...was to his Jewish apostles and was a teaching on the charter of the promised Davidic Kingdom which was imminent.

          A Christian is made righteous positionally by his faith in the saving grace of Christ and not by any ''good'' works that he does. Perfection is God's standard and no one can keep the law 24/7. It's not by works but by Gods grace that we are saved.

          2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be MADE THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD in him.

          Eph 2:8 For BY GRACE are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
          Eph 2:9 NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.

          Paul anticipated your argument and tells us that those who hold to a works salvation do it out of PRIDE. Then...he said this:

          1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

          So...your argument is with Paul who got his information from the ascended Christ.

        • ConservaDave2

          I do not advocate for a works without faith salvation. Please don't fit me into one of your little convenient religious boxes. Since "Faith without works is dead," (James2:17) so also is the doctrine of "faith alone" death. Scripture needs to be considered as a unified whole in order to get an accurate picture of anything and everything in It. You should not pick and choose certain verses while ignoring their complements. The "By Faith Alone" doctrine of salvation on the surface sounds like it honors God but in reality is a slap in His face and a denial of His power (1

        • Screeminmeeme

          1. I don't put people in religious boxes. I listen to what they have to say and then check to see whether or not they line up with the Word of God. Your comments do not.

          2. Faith and works are mutually exclusive. You can't have both. And you can't have neither.

          3. Everything I have said is in context. The whole NT can't be posted so read it in context yourself.

          4. The slap in the face to Jesus is to claim that when He cried out, ''Tetelestai''...If is finished!...while on the cross......it really wasn't finished and that YOU can do with your ''good works'' (which to God are filthy rags) what you are saying He could not. THAT is blasphemous.

        • ConservaDave2

          You misunderstand, I do not advocate a works without faith salvation, but "Faith without works is dead." (James 2:17) Therefore, a "faith alone" salvation is also dead. The falsely humble idea that God's salvation is a "free gift" means the Christian does not have to do anything but sit back and slothfully receive it, is a slap in His face, denying the power of God (1 Timothy 3:5) Too often "Christians" who believe this way become convinced that it is impossible for them to overcome sin, that God cannot change the heart and its desires and therefore they need a kind of "magical" Jesus to make them "right with God." The whole faith versus works controversy is a bogus distraction slipped into the Church by the devil in order to confuse us and keep us from the real issue. The real questions that need to be asked are, "What is the life lived that leads to heaven?" and "Considering my spiritual state, will I be more comfortable living in heaven with God or in hell without Him?" Jesus told the malefactor being crucified next to Him, "Today shalt thou be with Me in paradise," (Luke 23:43) which has been misinterpreted to mean deathbed confessions are a way of salvation no matter how hellish a lifestyle has been confirmed in the heart as being "good" by the confessor's life's actions. Three days after the crucifixion the resurrected Jesus told Mary, "Touch Me not; for I am NOT YET ascended to My Father." (John 20:17) Note that the malefactor was not with Him. Where this malefactor ended up in eternity is a mystery; what is known is that he and Jesus were together in a place calld "paradise" on that day. God is merciful but no one gains eternal life by mercy alone.
          "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind..." (Romans 12:2) There is a transformative power within true salvation. Jesus' death and resurrection was the means by which the baptism of the Holy Spirit entered into this fallen world and the Holy Spirit is that transforming power. "...It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart I will send Him unto you." (John16:7) Had the devil and his princes understood this "they would not have crucified the Lord of glory." (1 Corinthians 2:8) "And if the righteous SCARCELY be saved, where shall the ungodly and sinner appear?" (1 Peter 4:18) You contradict yourself when you say a simple confession of faith yields an unconditional unmerited free gift of salvation and then say the "phonies" and "posers in the church" who have made this confession will be lost. Which is it? Why is one entitled to the "free gift" and another not? And if so, is it really a "free" gift? Scripture is clear that if some kind or degree of righteousness is not actualized in a life (as opposed to an imputed only righteousness) that that person's soul is in jeopardy. (1 Corinthians 6:9-12; Galatians 5:19-21)

        • Screeminmeeme

          1. I'm afraid that you DO adhere to a works salvation doctrine. You can't have it both ways. You can't say that you are saved by grace but kept or maintained by your works. It's either grace or works because they are mutually exclusive terms. Either Christ paid it all....or not at all. To believe that salvation can be lost is to misunderstand what happens when one is saved.

          Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

          Salvation is an entire package deal. It means that when by faith you profess belief in Christ's redeeming work, you are saved, made a NEW CREATURE in Him, SEALED by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption, baptized by the Spirit into the Body of Christ...His church, blessed with ALL spiritual blessings, accepted in the Beloved, JUSTIFIED by His blood, IMPUTED with HIS righteousness, and COMPLETE IN HIM. The Holy Spirit is the EARNEST...the guarantee...of our salvation. Justification is a judicial term meaning to be 'declared righteous'.
          (Col 2:10, Eph 1:6,13,14, 4:30, Rom 5:9, 1 Co 12:13, 2 Co 5:17, Rom 4:22-24)

          A Christian is redeemed.
          1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
          1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

          The word “redeemed” refers to a purchase being made, a price being paid. For a Christian to lose salvation, God Himself would have to revoke His purchase that He paid for with the precious blood of Christ.

          2. Antinomianism is heresy. No responsible grace believer would ever teach that you can be saved by grace and then live like the devil. I have posted many times on GP that good works are ordained for every Christian to carry out, AFTER he has been saved. Those good works testify to the change that has been wrought in us...as James says.

          Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

          2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

          (Notice that works follow our being saved. We can only be his workman after we have become his workmanship, and that if we don't study the Word, we will be ashamed when we stand at the Bema seat).

          3. I agree that there is a transformative (and irrevocable) change that takes place the instant one is saved and we are IMPUTED with Christ's righteousness, a positional truth. (Rom 4:22-24) Then throughout the rest of our life, as we surrender to the Holy Spirit and study, pray and meditate on the Word of God, we are conformed to the image of Christ. As we conform to the WILL of God, we do not become ''sinless'', but we will sin less.

          Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

          2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

          4. I didn't contradict myself. In the parable about the Tares among the Wheat, Jesus taught that the posers would look and sound like the genuine article but were planted in the church by Satan in order to deceive believers. While we cannot discern who is genuine and who is not, God looks on the heart (something I can't see) and makes His judgment. God knows who made a sincere confession of faith, and who did not. We can be fooled. God can't.

          5. The salvation you describe IS probational and dependant on OUR WORKS or it can be taken away. (of course the question comes up about how many sins one has to accumulate before one's salvation is revoked). I believe this is a false doctrine because Paul is emphatic that one is saved by grace thru faith...and that to think otherwise is prideful. Ever since Adam, man has wanted to take credit for his salvation. (the 'type' of false religion was seen in the fig leaf apron made by Adam and Eve) Paul is also forceful about our behavior as Christians and how we ought to be beyond reproach in our actions and how our actions reflect on our Father and can spoil our testimony and witness.

          Absolutely NO ONE is capable of keeping all the commandments of God 24/7..not you, not me. (and that is a problem because God's standard of righteousness is 100% perfection.) Remember, when Christ walked the earth, He not only talked about the law, but intensified it by saying that just THINKING about lusting after a woman was the same as committing adultery....that entertaining a thought about a particular sin is the same as committing it. Everyone sins daily...either overtly, or covertly....by commission or omission...by thought, word or deed. So....we need to somehow be MADE RIGHTEOUS to be fit for heaven and that can come only by Christ.

          1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the UNRIGHTEOUS shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
          1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
          1Co 6:11 And such WERE some of you: BUT ye are WASHED, but ye are SANCTIFIED, but ye are JUSTIFIED in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

          Indeed it's true that the UNRIGHTEOUS will not inherit the kingdom of God, but notice that Paul is rebuking rank sinners.....CARNAL Christians at Corinth....who, BTW, he still called ''saints''......and he is NOT calling them ''unrighteous'' but is reminding them that Christ's righteousness was imputed to them...they were justified and sanctified and washed.....and a change had taken place in them.

          So he was telling them to stop the crap and start acting like the ''saints'' that they are. BTW: Paul also says in Romans 8 that Christians are not only justified but seen as GLORIFIED, already, by God. Now HOW can that be? Because God knows everything, and He has ordained that every true Christian is predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son...and that that hewill persevere....will in time.....conform to God's will.

          6. Paul anticipated your argument about works...and pointed out in Eph 2:8-9, that PRIDE is what motivates people to condemn the grace message.

          The most frequent objections to the belief that a Christian cannot lose salvation are
          1) What about those who are ''Christians'' and continually live an immoral lifestyle?
          2) What about those who are ''Christians'' but later reject the faith and deny Christ?

          The problem with these two objections is the phrase “who are Christians.” The Bible declares that a true Christian will NOT live a continually immoral lifestyle (1 John 3:6) and that anyone who departs the faith is demonstrating that he never truly was a Christian (1 John 2:19).

          Therefore, neither objection is valid. Christians do NOT continually live immoral lifestyles, nor do they reject the faith and deny Christ. Such actions are proof that they were never redeemed in the first place. (They were a Tare among the Wheat)

          A Christian cannot lose salvation. Nothing can separate a Christian from God’s love (Romans 8:38-39). Nothing can remove a Christian from God’s hand (John 10:28-29). God is both willing and able to guarantee and maintain the salvation He has given us.

          7. A few passages which clearly teach that God KEEPS us saved.

          Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to KEEP YOU FROM FALLING, and to present you FAULTLESS before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
          Jud 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

          Php 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

          Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

          I hope you reconsider your position...and again...you might want to ask yourself why you want to rob Jesus of ALL the glory due HIM alone for YOUR salvation.

      • KayDeeBeau

        If that is what Jesus meant to say - He would have said so. He would not have said I am the Way, the Truth and the Life - He would have said whatever you happen to believe or do is fine as long as you are good.

        If He wasn't the ONLY Way, being Truth and the Word made flesh, He would have told us all of the ways. He clearly says He is the only way.

        Since the Father resides in Heaven, they are synonyms.

        One cannot live the way, the truth and the life without Jesus, one can act as if they are but the heart, not being right is as filthy rags.

        Conversly, one who is truly redeemed and changed, will not live counter to the way of Jesus.

        But then again, it is not for us to judge the hearts of man, but to judge them based upon their fruits. It matters not what man may think or know of another, it only matters what God thinks and knows at the final judgement.

        Man can be fooled by other men, God will not be deceived.

        In the end God has the final word.

        I want to hear Him say to me well done My good and faithful servant rather than depart from Me, I never knew you.

  • Mike Warren

    I believe that Pope Benedict XVI was PETRUS ROMANUS and Pope Francis is the anti-Christ. For whatever reason Benedict did not die, according to Biblical Prophecy, or did he when he was replaced by Francis. We will soon see.

    • MGL2012

      What you will see is a Church leadership that will continue to abide in Christ, unlike the leadership of some Protestant denominations which ordain professed homosexuals or question the divinity of Christ.

      You know who they are.

  • MGL2012

    Pope Francs is encouraging good works from unbelievers as well as believers, as well as encouraging the Church's openness to unbelievers.

    Nowhere does Francis, or any other Pope for that matter, say that we are saved by works apart from the redemptive sacrifice of Jesus Christ. That is a heresy called Pelagianism which the Catholic Church defined and fought against centuries before there was such a thing as Protestant theology.

    This is your personal interpretation, not the Pope's words. Try to give your brethren in Christ the benefit of the doubt once in a while.

    • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

      WAS MOTHER TERESA A TRUE CHRISTIAN?
      http://www.wayoflife.org/database/motherteresa.html

      • MGL2012

        Without a doubt she was a true Christian.

        If you are asking whether she fits into a particular Protestant's definition of a Christian is another matter. But that's what we are really talking about isn't it? Where is the term "regenerate Christian" in the Bible?

        It's your private interpretation against other Christians' interpretations. According to Protestant doctrine, no one Christian has the absolute authority to interpret the truth conclusively. So who made you or the WayofLife writer the absolute authority to judge a soul's salvation absolutely?

        Don't mention the Bible because his name and yours are not listed among the apostles or disciples.

        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

          Revelation 20

          1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

          2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

          3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

          4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

          5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

          6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

          7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

          8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

          9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

          10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

          11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

          12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

          13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

          14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

        • MGL2012

          OK, so you can quote from Revelation. I can cut and paste too. But where is "regenerate Christian" in the Bible?

          By the way, Rev 20:13, "and they were judged every man according to their works."

          You are evading the question because you don't have an answer.

          Aside from the Scriptural quotes in the WayofLife opinion, it's all a matter of interpretation.

        • Screeminmeeme

          Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
          Tit 3:5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS which we have done, but according to his mercy HE SAVED US, by the washing of REGENERATION, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
          Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
          Tit 3:7 That being JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

          Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be BORN AGAIN, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

          1Pe 1:23 Being BORN AGAIN, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

          All three passages are about regeneration which is what happens when one trusts Christ alone for salvation.

        • Bobseeks

          Teresa was a worshiper of Mary. She was a good person, but she was no Christian.

        • Avspatti

          When I read of Mother Theresa's constant begging of the Lord to assure her of her faith/salvation, she seemed almost desperate. Why? I have puzzled over this for a long time because the Lord said "if you seek me with your whole heart, you will find me." Why was she so tormented by this? Anyone know about this?

    • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

      WHAT THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH TEACHES ABOUT SALVATION
      http://www.wayoflife.org/database/rccandsalvation.html

      • MGL2012

        "What Protestants say the Catholic Church teaches about salvation" is more accurate.

        If you really want to know what the Catholic Church teaches read her own documents directly and not what Protestants say about Catholics.

        • Bobseeks

          Catholic teachings are satan's teachings.

  • $23154113

    The pope is just a man in a church that has tried to consolidate power to control humanity since its founding. They make up rules as they see fit, always have through history. Who is he for anyone to obey him? They only get the power people willfully give them just like the Gov. I beleive all popes have served a another master from the beginning and still do. They wield their influnce for their own corrupt benefit whatever that may be.

    • KayDeeBeau

      While not a Catholic, I do not believe that the Pope is about power but about bringing people to the saving grace of Jesus Christ. While there have been (in the long distant past) corrupt Popes, I do not think this Pope is one of those (nor do I think any of the Popes in my lifetime have been 1960- until now - though I didn't really pay any attention Until Pope John Paul II).

      We the redeemed better stop our infighting and start uniting as Jesus commanded us - why would a non-believer be persuaded when so many who claim to be God's children, fuss and feud over doctrtinal or worship practices that in the grand scheme of things are not germain to salvation?

      As long as the message is Christ crucified and resurrected for the remission of sin as the means to salvation, shouldn't we be able to do as Jesus instructed us - keep unity ?

      The rest of the passage that the Pope referrenced in this message is that Jesus tells the disciples - if someone is working in My name, will he curse me or will his work bring Glory to Me - If it brings Glory to Me it is fine? (this is my "translation" - I encourage you to look up that passage yourself and at least for one reading - use the Message version -- try biblegateway.com)

      We are supposed to be brothers and sisters in Christ and while it is fine for families to disagree we need to make sure not to air the family dirty laundy in public where we may become stumbling blocks to unbelievers.

      I also encourage you to read this http://maxlucado.com/read/excerpts/life-aboard-the-fellowship/

      • Bobseeks

        There is no infighting here. The catholics are not among the redeemed unless Jesus is ok with false teaching and blasphemy.

        • KayDeeBeau

          Well, I guess you will be in for a big surprise. I will pray for your healing since based upon your "fruit" your root is rotten

        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

          Bob is correct and you are wrong.

      • MGL2012

        Thank you for your generosity of spirit. God bless you, sister.

  • ConservaDave2

    Dietrich Bonhoeffer wrote of "cheap grace" and "costly grace." Grace cannot get much cheaper than this feel good idea of what grace, salvation, justification and redemption are. The God of the Bible lets us know where we are really at: "...all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags..." (Isaiah 64:6) and "...when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, 'We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.'" (Luke 17:10) Jesus who is always correct (He's God after all...) declared, "...for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat..." (Matthew 7:13) If you are inclined to seek the "cheap grace" you have no grace at all. "...this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the Lord: which say to the seers, 'See not;' and to the prophets, 'Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits: get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.'" (Isaiah 30:8-14) If you live like you wish to live throughout eternity without God, God will not interfere, He will let you go to the place where you will be most comfortable.

  • https://me.yahoo.com/a/CfsINEYDoex3fXYF.FLFCPOcXaFQros-#f30f8 jong

    First of all I truly believe that no man comes to the father with out belief in the Lord Jesus Christ. I also believe that the rain falls up the saved and the unsaved and that only faith in the Lord Jesus Christ saves. Now having said that what in the world?? The Pope must be a secret believer in Liberation Theology to have said something like that . For what Christ meant was that people other than his disciples would do things in his name and if it was to the glory of GOD that to let them go ahead. It had nothing to do with salvation nor in belief of Christ as savior and anyone trying to get something out of that like the Pope did has some very serious theological problems.

    • TIMedWork

      jong
      I can come to the jail and bail you out (Redemption), but I cannot force you to accept it and leave your imprisonment (Salvation). This acceptance of your salvation, something that Christ did once, and for all time and all of God's creation, is something you must choose to do for yourself... "that no man comes to the father with out belief in the Lord Jesus Christ". Though you cannot post your bail, as it is much too high and beyond your ability to do so, you can accept of reject that One other did that for you; something the atheist does not do. Careful use and understanding of the meaning of words is essential to understanding the statement, as the speaker understood it. His words appear to have been carefully chosen. Equally carefully listening (reading) will accurately convey the idea.
      Peace

      • https://me.yahoo.com/a/CfsINEYDoex3fXYF.FLFCPOcXaFQros-#f30f8 jong

        I understood exactly what was being said. The Pope was incorrect in his conclusions of what Jesus was saying. And that worries me.

        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.
        • MGL2012

          What Protestants claim is Catholicism. Read what the Church teaches, not what third parties opine.

        • KayDeeBeau

          I am not so sure you do...

        • https://me.yahoo.com/a/CfsINEYDoex3fXYF.FLFCPOcXaFQros-#f30f8 jong

          Then look into the current Popes past and who some of his friends were. You are known by the company you keep. I am not anti-Catholic. But, this current Pope does worry me.

  • Rigoberto Vega

    Mr. Tagliare and company,

    Rather than seek to "correct" Pope Francis' off the cuff sermon from a Biblical perspective and the other commentators here rashly jump into "prophecy" about the end times, it would be much more helpful for true dialogue and Christian unity to begin by reading the Pope's words carefully and doing some comparative theology.

    Did the Pope ever mention the word salvation? Did he say Atheists or all humanity is going to Heaven? Read his words again please. If he did, that would make him a universalist Unitarian, and a heretic Pope for that matter (at which point he would cease to be Pope since a heretic can't be the Pope).

    This is the line that seems to be the most controversial and admittedly the most vague: "The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics."

    Now, let's look at Scripture carefully: Romans 5: 18-19: "Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous."

    I don't want to enter into a debate with Calvinists on limited vs. unlimited atonement here, but the Catholic Church's position is that Christ sacrifice and resurrection were for "all people." In verse 19 where we read "many" you can note that it also uses "many" to refer to those who "were made sinners." So, the Catholic position is that Christ's redemption was offered once and for all for everyone. Christ redemptive work redeemed all the sins of humankind of all time. Now, what the Pope didn't say is that universal redemption does not lead to universal salvation, because each person must receive the gift of redemption for themselves in order to be saved and go to Heaven. That being said, all humanity is benefitted from Christ's redemption somehow, after all, did not Christ destroy the works of the devil and free humanity from his uncontested dominion prior to grace?

    Pope Francis is simply pointing out that the humanity of an atheist is "good" and has the potential to do "good works," for many reasons, one of them being that Christ redeemed their humanity from the dominion of sin and of the Devil.

    I appreciate your concern for the Biblical Gospel, but why are Evangelicals always so willing to misread or misrepresent any remotely controversial or polemical comment made by a Catholic leader? Where is the Spirit of unity? If there was an offense, why not throw it out there and ask the Pope to explain what he mean or ask some Catholic cleric to do so?

    Peace be unto you.

    • KayDeeBeau

      I agree with your commentary - I think we Evangelicals are very sensitive to any idea that seems (even remotely) to promote the thought that through our efforts we can do enough good to atone for our sins.

      The issue for me is that many will misconstrue the Pope's message to mean that if you do enough good things you can be right with God. Meaning that one need not acknowdlege his sinfulness before a Holy, righteous God and accept the atoning sacrifice of the death penalty paid by Jesus Christ to be right before God.

      There are too may who think they can do enough, be good enough, that as long as he is at least not as bad as the other guy, that is sufficient.

      When goodness is to be measured by the standards of a Holy God, none are capable of being good enough. That is why Jesus came.

      Doing and acting good is great but it is not enough in the end. I (as with most Evangelicals) want to make sure people understand the difference between the mankind definiton of good and the Godly definition of good - since it really matters in the end.

      • Rigoberto Vega

        Thank you for your gracious response. No argument here. In fact, if you ever need to inform a Catholic of this fact just point him to the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

        Part III Section I
        Article
        Paragraph 2007 "With regard to God, there is no strict right to any merit on the part of man. Between God and us there is an immeasurable inequality, for we have received everything from him, our Creator."

        or in the same section.

        GRACE
        Paragraph 1996 "Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life.46

        1997 Grace is a participation in the life of God. It introduces us into the intimacy of Trinitarian life: by Baptism the Christian participates in the grace of Christ, the Head of his Body. As an "adopted son" he can henceforth call God "Father," in union with the only Son. He receives the life of the Spirit who breathes charity into him and who forms the Church.

        1998 This vocation to eternal life is supernatural. It depends entirely on God's gratuitous initiative, for he alone can reveal and give himself. It surpasses the power of human intellect and will, as that of every other creature.47"

        Blessings to you brother in the Lord!

  • miketom7777

    I have to admit, dealing with ignorance from non-catholics is frustrating. The author confuses the terms "redeemed" and "saved.". Read the catechism and you'll get your answer. As for Tony, message below, you were saved when you were baptized ; 1Peter 3:21. Not when you professed Jesus as your "personel lord and savior.". A passage by the way that appears nowhere in scripture.

    • Bobseeks

      It is the catholics who are ignorant of Scripture because they believe the lies of satan's catamite sons the popes. Tell me where the Bible speaks of things like the ascension of Mary, praying to Mary and the "saints", purgatory, and the rest of the catholic fairy tales and maybe I'll listen to what liars like you have to say.

      • KayDeeBeau

        I think you are misinformed as to the rites of Catholicism. I also think that we should not be fighting and warring amongst ourselves over matters of doctrine. As long as the Gospel of Christ crucified and resurected for the atonement of sin to save the world is the message, the rest is of no consequence except as personal preference for worship and adherence as one sees fit accordin to the gospel message.

        “All people will know that you are my followers if you love each other.” John 13:35

        Stop and think about that verse for a minute. Could it be that unity is the key to reaching the world for Christ? . . .

        Nowhere, by the way, are we told to build unity. We are told simply to keep unity. From God’s perspective there is but “one flock and one shepherd” (John 10:16). Unity does not need to be created; it simply needs to be protected.

        Max Lucado describes this way better than I can - read it here http://maxlucado.com/read/excerpts/life-aboard-the-fellowship/

        • Bobseeks

          Paul says not to join yourself with a whore - the catholic church is a whore. Max Lucado is a writer trying to sell books to a broad audience. If he claims that doctrine is not important, then he is a liar.

        • KayDeeBeau

          And you have Biblical proof to support that any part of Christ's church is a whore where?

          And just because a person chooses to write a book to sell and make money from, that discounts what he says how?

          So did you even read the whole thing from Max Lucado?

          And you have read, studied and done a comparative analysis of religons and come to your conclusions when?

          Where can I find your writings of comparative religions based upon Biblical texts?

          The Biblical proof to back up your claims that the Catholic Church is a whore comes form where?

          And even if you can provide all the evidence requested above, this brings non-believers into the fold of the Great Shepherd how?

          How does what you are saying and doing comport with "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” ?

          And your Biblical foundation for attacking fellow believers comes form where?

        • Bobseeks

          Fool - catholics are disciples of satan, not Christ. The catholics murdered millions to force their heresies on those who objected to their lies.

        • KayDeeBeau

          So you are saying you cannot answer any of my questions or offer any Biblical support to back up your assertions?

          So I will ask again what I think is the most important of my multitude of previous questions that you cannot or will not answer . -

          How does what you are saying and doing comport with "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Matthew 28:19-20 ?

          But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell. Matthew 5:22

          The Catholic Church would seem to be more effective at making disciples than you.......

        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

          You're right Bob.

        • Avspatti

          The answers are in the Bible - the Word of God. Check it out

      • MGL2012

        Tell me where the Bible mentions that Baptists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, non-denominationals, Methodists and Evangelicals (add whatever denomination you like) are infallible interpreters of Scripture?

        I take it you profess an infallible personal interpretation?

        • smartgranny55

          The Baptists are first mentioned with John the Baptist. The Nazerenes are mentioned with Jesus the Nazerene.:)
          (For those of you who don't get it, this is a joke.)

        • smartgranny55

          What is with the "profess an infallible personal interpretation"?
          Some (or most) of us not only study the scriptures, but listen to sermons, Bible studies, the wisdom of those who have gone before us, like the Apostle John.; Their are some minor differences in doctrine, but basically a Christian church believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, born of the virgin, Mary, died on the cross, and arose from the dead three days later.
          It is not the mainline Protestant churchs that have taken beliefs from false pagan religions and incorporated them into their doctrines. There is no mention in the Bible that it is okay to pray to Mary or a saint. That is idol worship. Jesus is our great high priest, not Mary. Purgatory is a myth. There is such thing as a mortal sin. Every sin is forgiven by Jesus' death. I John 1:9, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to deliver us from our sins and cleanse us all unrighteousness." There is no need to have another intermediary. A believer who dies committing a sin is never the less going to heaven.

        • Avspatti

          The Bible states:
          "for there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."
          1 Timothy 2:5

        • Rigoberto Vega

          It also says that in Heaven's altar incense is lifted up to the Father and to the Lamb, which "are the prayers of the saints (in Heaven)." Rev. 5:8

          Is Christ mediation exclusive or does Christ himself ask us to come into agreement and ask the Father whatever we ask in the name of His Son (see Matthew 18:18-20).?

        • Screeminmeeme

          WE are not mediators. We pray to the Father in the name of Jesus, who is. At the death of Christ, the veil in the temple was torn in two, symbolizing our free access to the Father. Indeed all Christians are to pray for one another.

          The ''saints'' are all genuine Christians. The Apostle Paul says so. Even though he was writing to address abuses and sin in the carnal church at Corinth, Paul still calls them ''saints''. The notion of ''sainthood'' in the Catholic church is a fabrication and is not supported by the inspired Word of God.

        • Avspatti

          In heaven, yes.

        • MGL2012

          Well, you are claiming your interpretation of Scripture is correct. No disrespect, but I question your claim to a correct interpretation.

          So think mainline Christian denominations are consistent with Scripture when they support abortion and ordain open homosexuals and deny the divinity of Christ? Mainline Christian denominations are acting like pagans. And they all claim to believe in the Bible alone.

        • Avspatti

          Now, this is where we examine deeds or fruit. Are those groups teaching and following true Christianity. ABSOLUTELY NOT!

        • Avspatti

          Just wanted to thank you, MGL2012, for an interesting and illuminating discussion. God bless you.

        • MGL2012

          God bless you for your kindness and patience. May God bless all Christians, even those who hate the Catholic Church.

        • Avspatti

          I hope you are not including me as one who hates the Catholic church,but I don't think you are, though. In every denomination, every Christian group, the Catholic church and the Orthodox church is the TENDENCY to error as sinful humans are running the place. Sometimes, I just wish the Lord would hurry up and come back, don't you?

          Be safe. :)

        • smartgranny55

          There are mainline protestant churches that preach the gospel of Christ. Many others have fallen away. I stopped looking at the church denomination and look at the individual church.

        • MGL2012

          Fair enough.

        • Screeminmeeme

          MGL...Your comments are well taken. If Jesus returned today, He wouldn't recognize many churches as His. Much corruption of doctrine and adoption of worldly values has penetrated many groups of people who profess to be Christians but who are tares among the wheat.

          However, with that being said, one can point out much corruption in the RCC as well. Sinful man has a way of screwing up everything and over the centuries we have seen wickedness rear its ugly head in all dominations, including yours.

        • MGL2012

          I don't claim that corrupt Catholics don't exist. However, the corruption as you well said is in our human nature. As you said, there are tares among the wheat.

          Some Protestants would have everyone believe that they are free of corruption and therefore justify maliciously attacking Catholics. Many lack Christian charity in judging others' motives and words. That, I will not stand for.

        • Bobseeks

          Where does the Bible tell us about the immaculate conception or Mary's ascension into Heaven? Where does it talk about purgatory and papal infallibility? Where does it talk about praying through a sodomite priest? Where does it talk about praying top Mary or the "saints?" Where does it talk about celibacy?

        • Rigoberto Vega

          Really? Have you read the Bible?

          Celibacy- 1 Cor. chapter 7

          32 I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. 33 But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— 34 and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. 35 I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.

          Purgatory- I pretty sure you don't know what Purgatory is, but essentially it is a final purification of the soul before entering into the fullness of God's presence.

          1 Cor. 3:12-15:12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

          For more answers and Biblical roots of Catholicism, please visit http://www.Catholic.com.

        • MGL2012

          If I were Protestant I wouldn't throw stones. There are Protestants ordaining sodomites and condoning homosexuality. Catholics don't seek out homosexuals to ordain them. We will never perform same-sex marriages. Look in the mirror first.

          By the way, Jesus and Paul were both celibate. take it up with them, not me.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Sandra-Smith/100000821491539 Sandra Smith

          Same place it mentions the infallible interpretation of the Pope; NOWHERE! The only "infallible Interpreter" of the Word is the Holy Spirit, which, thankfully, Jesus was wise enough to send to each and every one of His true followers, to do so for us. NO HUMAN can do so. Not me, not your many popes. In fact, I posit they led MILLIONS of innocent seeking souls to perdition rather than salvation over the 2 millenia since Jesus lived, by their sometimes ignorant, and often deliberate, FALSE pronouncements, edicts, etc.

        • MGL2012

          According to your doctrine, all Christians receive the Holy Spirit. This is true. However, the Holy Spirit is a spirit of unity, not division. Yet, Protestants have been dividing into denominations for 500 years each claiming they have the infallible guidance of the Holy Spirit, each denomination with a different set of doctrines. Is that the spirit of unity in action?

          "And so I say to you, you are Peter and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld cannot prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." This is the Gospel seed of the Pope's infallible authority.

          You also have a doctrine of private interpretation which effectively says that all Christian interpretations are valid. Can you infallibly say I'm wrong?

        • smartgranny55

          The rock that the Christian church is built upon is Jesus Christ, not Peter. Peter was just a pebble like the rest of us.

        • Screeminmeeme

          Amen granny.

        • MGL2012

          Why did Jesus call Simon "Peter"– which means rock? You are avoiding the obvious meaning of the text.

        • smartgranny55

          The meaning of that passage is not as obvious as you make it seem.
          There are 3 possible interpretations. The rock could refer to Jesus or Peter or to Peter's confession of faith. In other Scriptures, Jesus is referred to as the cornerstone of the church. "Peter" means "little rock" or "pebble". The rock on which the church is built is Jesus Christ.
          There is NO Scriptural basis to believe that the pope is infallible or a descendant of Peter. Incidently, Peter was married.

        • CJM2

          Prove that the pope is infallible and get that proof from the Bible--you can't do that because it isn't in there.

        • Rigoberto Vega

          The Infallibility of the Pope falls under the doctrine of the Infallibility of the Church. Something anti-Catholics love to overlook or ignore.

          John 16:12-13: 12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

          Catholics simply take Christ's promise seriously that when the Spirit comes he will lead us into the fullness of truth, for us that must mean truth without error.

          The Pope is the successor of St. Peter who was the spokesmen and first among the Apostles. God won't allow His Church and its visible head on Earth to deceive His Church.

          For a biblical example of Peter's guidance over the Church Acts 1:15-23 and Acts 16: 6-21.

          And I will leave you with the classic Petrine authority passage:

          Matthew 16: 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[b] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[c] will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[d] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven.”

          Regardless, of who the "rock" is, Jesus is clearly telling Peter that whatever he "binds on earth" is bound in Heaven. Now, if Peter or one of his successors makes a binding doctrine, who do you suppose we should agree with. By the way, Popes have only used their infallible authority by themselves in a few occasions.

          You may have never read those passages in this light and you may remain convinced that you have a better interpretation of those verses, but can you at least recognize that Catholics have a point and perhaps they may be right?

          God bless you.

        • CJM2

          Any pope is a mere man and is subject to the same temptations as other human beings--they all are flesh and blood, period. NO man is of the same substance as is God or Christ, therefore, NO man is infallible. I left the Catholic Church because I refuse to honor a man as opposed to God.

      • CJM2

        I had an aunt who screamed at me for leaving the Catholic Church and demanded that I return to the fold immediately, pray for forgiveness, and repent. I told her NO. I could never believe that infants who died in pregnancy or immediately at birth or shortly thereafter would spend their eternal lives in limbo or that anyone could be prayed out of purgatory. She informed me that the Church no longer taught about limbo--so I naturally asked: And just where did the pope put our dead baby since limbo no longer exists? Obviously, she was unable to answer that question and just as obviously, I never returned to the 'fold.'

        • Avspatti

          Remember the son of David and Bathsheba? The child died in spite of many tears and prayers of David, who finally said that his son would not return to him. However, he (David) would go to him. (2 Samuel 12:23)

          " ....Can I bring him back? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me."

        • MGL2012

          So you have the exact answer to this theological question?

          Forgive your aunt, she is not a theologian. Are you?

        • CJM2

          It is rather obvious that you are a Catholic, mgl2012. Catholics do not use the Protestant Bible and the Catholic Bible has other 'books' that Protestants don't use. I was raised as a Catholic and attended Catholic schools, but had the good sense to get out of that mess. As for being a theologian, neither are you--nice try at your feeble attempts to "enlighten" the "flock," but you have failed miserably in that you have absolutely NO RESPECT for other people's opinions.

        • Screeminmeeme

          The Bible used by the Roman Church was based on the corrupted Alexandrian text while the KJV was based on the uncorrupted Antiochian text. People don't realize that there were two streams of manuscripts...one corrupted by the gnostics and others, one not. Every modern translation is taken from the Westcott-Hort Text (two unbelieving Anglican priests) which was based on the Alexandrian text....therefore...all modern translations...... other than the KJV......are corrupted.

        • Ashley48

          Whoa! We have that coming from the voice of authority! Looks like you can't stand any religion except your own whatever that is. You spend your life as a nurse saving those dying on their death beds and studying scripture for 60 years You know what bible is corrupt and what isn't. Yours is the only bible that's correct. and of course people don't realize anything except yourself. You're actually one of the apostles in drag.

        • Screeminmeeme

          It doesn't take 60 years of study to know this. Anyone willing to crack a book or do some research on the web can readily find the information.

          It's pretty obvious that you know little about the subject. Have you ever heard of Origen and his hexapla---the self-serving revisionists, Westcott and Hort--- or the Bible-preserving Vaudois--- or Dean Burgon, known for his dedicated defense of the Bible--- or the TR?

          Do you know that the NIV is missing many verses, and that along with many other modern versions it questions the virgin birth of Christ, attacks the doctrine of the deity of Christ, the infallibility of the Bible, the doctrine of salvation by faith and the Trinity?

          Do you know that the old, much lauded Codex Siniaticus has been copied, written over as much as four times, scribbled in, erased, and that it disagrees with Vaticanus in nearly 3000 places in the Gospels alone, yet both are held up as the most reliable texts by some liberal ''scholars''? Amazingly, this 'priceless Bible', Codex S was found by Tishendorf in a trash can in St Catherine's Monastery. It had been discarded because it was regarded as useless garbage.

          Do you know that Codex Vaticanus, found in the Vatican library in 1481AD, was written on fine vellum and remains in excellent condition yet is omits huge chunks of or entire books and epistles and in the gospels alone it leaves out 237 words, 452 clauses and 748 whole sentences?
          The Vaticanus was available to the translators of the King James Bible, but they didn't use it because they knew it is unreliable. It also contains the Apocrypha which is uninspired literature which often contradicts Scripture.

          Why not try something new...like learning something about a subject before you discuss it. Maybe some knowledge of the Word of the God and its history would have been helpful and instead of attacking you could have made a rational argument.

        • MGL2012

          Really? The only who is being disrespectful is you who go around insulting Catholics without knowing anything about the Catholic faith yourself.

          By the way, you didn't answer the question did you?

        • CJM2

          You didn't read my post--or you would have seen that as a former Catholic, I do have knowledge of what that "religion" is all about. Nor have I insulted Catholics as you stated...apparently, you don't know how to respond to one who chose to leave a false practice. And, yes you are disrespectful of other peoples opinions.

    • smartgranny55

      Read tthe Bible instead. Baptism is not the means to salvation. "For by grace are you saved through FAITH. it is not of yourself, lest any one should boast."

      • MGL2012

        The Bible also says "You must be born again of water and spirit" (Jesus to Nicodemus) and "Baptism now saves you" and "Go forth and baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit." Are you sure you have an infallible interpretation of baptism or is this a private interpretation?

        • smartgranny55

          According to your rational, the thief on the cross wasn't really saved. That is calling our Savior, a liar. He told the thief, who professes faith in Jesus, "Today you will be with me in paradise." There was no chance to baptize.
          Baptism is a sign of obedience once the person is born again.
          Baptism is a covenant sign of faith in Jesus Christ, not a requirement for salvation. To require works, which includes baptism, for salvation is saying that the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ was not adequate to save anyone. "All righteousness are as filthy rags."

        • MGL2012

          No, God can tell us what the surest thing to do is (like seeking baptism), but he can save us if we are repentant because He is merciful. No one who is sincerely repentant is excluded. But He doesn't want us to wait until our last breath of life to respond to His Gift.

          Where does it say in the Bible that Baptism is only a sign of obedience?

          Is the statement "all righteousness are as filthy rags" in Scripture?

          You must be calling Jesus and the apostles liars since you won't accept other Scriptures which augment the understanding of salvation?

        • smartgranny55

          Isaiah 64:6, "All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteousness acts are like filthy rags.."

        • MGL2012

          You are taking one verse out of context to say that Jesus does not expect good works from us His disciples.

          Read Matthew 25:31-46

          The Protestant interpretation of Scripture makes the Bible seem like it's full of contradictions. Some verses are emphasized as if they alone were meaningful, some ignored altogether and some are unconvincingly explained away.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Sandra-Smith/100000821491539 Sandra Smith

          Baptism, like "good works" should follow as outward signs of the already completed work of salvation, but is NOT necessary to the process of salvation. IF that were true, again, as with the "good works" we wouldn't need the cross, just a convenient body of water, for salvation.

        • Rigoberto Vega

          I'm sorry but your theology is hard to believe. Have you read Romans 6. Baptism is a participation in the death and resurrection of Christ. Without the cross, Baptism would have effect or power.

          Do you believe what the Bible says that Baptism is a participation in the death of Christ and a rising to new life or do you follow your Evangelical theological pre-constructs.

        • Avspatti

          The water in that verse refers to physical birth.

        • MGL2012

          That's what Nicodemus misunderstood which left him puzzled.

          But Jesus and the apostles do teach about baptism. Jesus had John the baptist baptize Him to show the importance of baptism. Jesus tells the apostles to go baptize. The explanation about physical birth is a Protestant doctrine to explain away all the other verses mentioning the importance of baptism.

  • Avspatti

    I believe non-believers can be decent people in the aspect of being decent, law-abiding people even if they are not saved. Kind acts can be done by anyone if we are just speaking of surface everyday acts. There are honest people who are not believers - people who would not steal from you, for example. People who help others. Now, of course, in their core, they are unable to do spiritual good since they do not know the Lord.

    Even though we are no longer allowed to bring religion into the schools, we all agree that we want to teach children to be honest, kind, caring, helpful, etc. Most of hese children are not believers, at least, not yet, but we do think they can be good. Not sinlessly perfect, of course, but good in the sense of good behavior. Of course, we all have a sin nature which cannot be overcome except through Jesus.

    Thoughts?

    • KayDeeBeau

      faith without works is dead, works without faith is meaningless.

      • Avspatti

        Yes, but I was not referring to the eternal value of "works". No one earns salvation from any work. I was merely referring to surface value of works such as kindness, honestly etc. I was NOT implying that anything of that nature was a way to eternal life, which is only through Jesus Christ. Behavior that we all acknowledge as good in the earthly sense can most certainly be done by non-believers.

        • KayDeeBeau

          understood - I was merely trying to point out that the passage from James means that those who have recognized and accepted God's sacrifice thru Jesus (the redeemed) should do good as evidence of the change and price paid for us - to highlight our life in Christ. but even though one may do good, without the faith in Jesus as the atonement for sin - in the end good works mean nothing

    • smartgranny55

      Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me." He said, "I and the Father are one."
      John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. That who so ever believes in Him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not His Son into the world, to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved." There is only one way to get into heaven after death. It through faith in Jesus Christ.

      • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

        Salvation

        THAT YE MAY KNOW THAT YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE...| John 5:13

        Like most people you want to know where you will spend eternity. The God who made you loves you. He wants you to know that you have eternal life. This knowledge from hearing and believing the Word of God. Please consider these four great truths so that you can KNOW that YOU have eternal life.

        TRUTH #1: The reality of sin.

        As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Romans 3:10

        For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 3:23

        Let's be honest. No one is perfect. Every one of us has done wrong at least once. Righteousness is not relative. God is the standard of right. His holy nature demands perfection. When we are not perfect we miss that mark. God calls those misses SIN. It really does not matter by how much we miss the mark. If I had to jump a 12' crevice to be safe, jumping 11 feet 11 inches is just as fatal as jumping 6 feet. Earning God's favor is an all or nothing proposition. It takes only one sin to fall short of His demand. It takes only one sin to become a sinner. It takes only one sin to come short.

        TRUTH #2: Sin must be punished.

        For the wages of sin is death...Romans 6:23a

        Have you ever wondered why we grow old and die? Your body can fight off every injury and illness. It just doesn't. There is no biological reason that we should grow old. There is no biologic reason we should die. Sin is not just a wrong action. It is also the power that causes us to commit sins. Sin destroys everything it touches. Sin is the reason people die. Untreated it will can cause eternal death.

        God declares that sin pays wages. At the end of each week most of us expect a pay check for the work which we have done. In the same way, sin pays wages. Sin not only pays physical death. It also pays spiritual death. That spiritual death is described in Revelation 20:14-15.

        And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

        The person who meets God without dealing with SIN must collect the wages of sin in a place God calls The Lake of Fire, Hell, and the Second Death. It is a place of torment by fire, brimstone, darkness and conscience that lasts for ETERNITY. You might protest, "How can a loving God send anyone to such a horrible place?" The answer is simple. God doesn't want to send anyone there. He had done everything He could to keep us out of hell. This leads us to the most wonderful truth in the Bible.

        TRUTH #3: God made a remedy for Sin.

        ...but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23

        Since He knew that we could not earn it, God made eternal life a free gift. There is nothing to be joined, nothing to be paid, nothing to be earned. Eternal life, the opposite of the second death, is a gift. It is free to us but it was not free to God.

        But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

        God loves you. He did not want to make you collect the wages for your sins. He decided to collect those wages for you. How did He do that? The Lord Jesus, who was God, became a man and lived an absolutely SINLESS LIFE. He earned eternal life. Judgment had no claim on Him. He was perfect. But His perfect life was not enough. To be able to forgive us someone still had to collect the wages. Jesus voluntarily died IN MY PLACE. Jesus voluntarily died IN YOUR PLACE. He collected our wages.

        In heaven, God, the Father, wrote our sins under the account of His Son. On the cross, Jesus Christ absorbed the full punishment for our sins. When He had completed paying for our sins He cried, "It is finished!" and died. Three days later He rose from the grave to prove that He had accomplished His work. Death could not hold Him. He is alive today. Salvation is a simple bookkeeping transaction. Just as Jesus chose to take our guilt, we must choose to take His righteousness.

        TRUTH #4: You must choose to receive this gift.

        That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved... For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Romans 10:9,13

        Notice what the last verse says. "...Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." You must understand that YOU MUST RECEIVE THE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE. God has paid for it but you must accept it. He will not force you to be saved. He will not force you to have your sins forgiven. He will not force you to go to heaven. But He has made a way for all these things to be done.

        Let me ask you to use your imagination. Imagine that the Lord Jesus is standing right here with you right now. He speaks to you and says, "Let me forgive your sins and make you a child of God. Let me give you eternal life and the promise of heaven." What would you say to him? Do you realise that He is alive today, and he is here today through the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit? He is saying to you, "Let me forgive your sins and make you a child of God. Let me give you eternal life and the promise of heaven." Would you let him do that right now? Would you let him forgive your sin and give you eternal life in heaven with him? Would you accept that pardon that God offers so freely? Why don't you ask Him for it right now? Just pray this simple prayer:

        Lord Jesus,

        I know that I am a sinner. I know that I deserved to be punished for my sin. Thank you for taking my punishment. Please come into my heart and save me right now. I am trusting in you to forgive my sins and give me eternal life. Thank you for saving me.

        Amen.

        God said that if you would call on Him that He would save you. If you have called on Him, you have been saved. You now know that you have eternal life.

        • smartgranny55

          Your explanation of how (and why) to be saved is excellent!

        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

          Thank you.

  • $2398599

    Non Christians can do good deeds, and Christians often do bad deeds. So give everyone a chance to prove himself I say.

    • ezekiel22

      The point the writer was making had to do with salvation and the redemptive work of Christ. The statement made by the Pope infers that just doing good works alone is good enough. It is not. If someone is doing good that is great. Is it enough to get to Heaven? No.

      • $2398599

        I believe that eventually we shall be judged on how we treat each other, not necessarily what church one goes to.

        • Screeminmeeme

          The Bible teaches that the great White Throne Judgment is reserved only for the lost...for unbelievers....and no Christians will be judged there. Christians are saved because they have trusted Christ alone for their salvation. One is saved NOT by his good works but by grace (unmerited favor). However, the rewards that they might receive in heaven will be based on how a Christian has lived his life...how he has served Christ here on earth. He will go before what Paul calls the Judgment Seat...or Bema seat...of Christ. The Bema seat in Rome was a raised platform where Caesar sat, where people would speak publicly , and where the participants in sports or fighting would pass by to receive their medals.

          I think you're right.....labels mean nothing to God. It's not what label is ON the bottle but what's IN the bottle that's important to Him. Man looks at the outside....God looks at the heart.

          1Sa 16:7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

        • $2398599

          I am not exactly religious, but I believe that God made us with a spirit inside of us to lead us to do the right thing. The 10 commandments are a standard to live by anyway, whether one is religious or not.

        • Bobseeks

          Was hiltler led to do the right thing? How about stalin, mao, or pol pot? How about obama?

        • MGL2012

          He's talking about the natural law. The law Paul says is written into men's hearts. It means that we are all capable of knowing what is good. It does not mean we automatically do what is good.

          God gave us free will after all.

        • Bobseeks

          We will be judged on whether or not we belong to Christ through faith and repentance.

      • MGL2012

        It does not infer that at all.

    • Screeminmeeme

      True. There are atheists whose life of serving others would put some Christians to shame. However, those good works do not earn salvation. Only by trusting Christ alone can one be saved. That's not opinion but what the New Testament clearly teaches in many passages.

  • http://twitter.com/stevor_h steve holmes

    If you're a TRUE Christian (which the pope seems NOT to be), then you follow the bible.

    • MGL2012

      What Bible did Jesus and the apostles quote? Did the apostles have a KJV Bible in hand when they preached or is their preaching what came to be known as the Bible?

      Which translation is the infallible one? As far as I know, individual bible translators are not infallible. For example, why did Luther remove books from the Bible? Was his opinion infallible?

      • Avspatti

        They quoted the Torah and the Prophets.

  • Sivispace

    The Pope did not nullify the redemptive work of Jesus Christ. Nothing under Heaven or Earth can undo what Christ accomplished in blood. In fact, the Pope did not even say that Athiests or non-believers would be redeemed. All he said was that all men are our brothers in Creation. Jesus said the same thing! As Christians, we have a duty to minister to non believers but we should do so with actions rather than words. We should immitate Christ just as Saint Paul admonished us to do. Incidentally, I am a Protestant and I support this Pope.

    • smartgranny55

      Did you read the same article I did?

      • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

        :-)

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Sandra-Smith/100000821491539 Sandra Smith

        Not the one I read either, Smartgranny; or he/she is a product of "modern" "edjukayshun" and is functionally illiterate.

    • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

      VATICAN II COUNCIL REAFFIRMS CATHOLIC HERESIES
      http://www.wayoflife.org/database/reaffirmsheresies.html

      • MGL2012

        A Protestant claims the Vatican II affirms Catholic heresies. Another private interpretation of the Bible asserted as an infallible truth.

        • smartgranny55

          Did you read the info on wayof life.org? Those reaffirmations are blasphemous. There is ONLY ONE WAY TO HEAVEN. IT THROUGH FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST. There is no room for any other interpretation. You have come up with all the claims for "private interpretation" as a way to justify doctrine that is anti-Biblical and no better than the anti- and extra-Biblical claims of islam, mormonisn, and other false religions and cults.

        • blaineiac

          You are one smart granny!

        • MGL2012

          You are reading Protestant propaganda. Go to the source instead of believing people who hate the Church.

        • smartgranny55

          You call reading the Bible Protestant propaganda?
          Until I read this article and your comments, I was neutral toward the Catholic church. I have met Catholics who are born again and no doubt will see them in heaven. But, praying to Mary, saints, purgatory, works, denying the sufficiency of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, for salvation are all false doctrines. Contrary to what you believe, the Catholic Church is not one founded on Biblical truth. Traditions and the pope do not add truth to your dogma.
          You can't buy your way into heaven. You can't work your way into heaven. You can't pray another's soul into heaven. There is no purgatory.

      • patriotusa2

        There were scores of Protestants at the Vatican II Council, Raymond. Those who played a major role in the dictums of the Council.

        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

          You just don't seem to get it.

        • patriotusa2

          Oh, I get it all right, Raymond. What's so hard to understand about scores of Protestants and Catholics that were at the Vatican II Council that you bring up all the time? That's hard to get? The meaning of it all Raymond, is to validate my point that there isn't any religion on the face of this earth that hasn't fallen short of the glory of God, as well as man himself.

        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.
        • patriotusa2

          All sins can be forgiven whether they be liars or not, which I'm sure St. Paul would agree, when he wrote those words. As far as your web link is concerned, it's not something I care to visit.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Sandra-Smith/100000821491539 Sandra Smith

      He can't literally undo it, but he can and will lead MILLIONS of souls astray and away from salvation, by telling them they can achieve it by their own works, which is what he did; he nullified the absoluteness of that sacrifice as the ONLY means of salvation, insofar as the minds of most who hear that.

      • MGL2012

        Doesn't anyone read? You are just repeating what some Protestants say about the Catholic Faith.

    • MGL2012

      God bless you for your support, kindness and clarity of understanding. Take care brother.

  • Ron Bindl

    Look, The Pontiff is saying you can not get to heaven unless "IN THE END" you acknowledge Jesus as the Lord and and Savior. ...everyone will get the chance to proclaim this! I believe in Jesus and his sacrifice to save us all. I know
    that it matters when the day of judgment occurs. Yes you can do good
    and not believe in Jesus yet still gain access to heaven because when
    offered a choice in the end and the vision presented they will accept
    Jesus. But it is important that people do good, period. Otherwise you
    get tyranny! Just look at our government now! Government Tyranny is
    on the rise and stupid people don't even see it coming believers and
    non.

    • smartgranny55

      There is no one saved apart from Christ. At the end of your life, you may or may not get a chance to accept or reject Him. If you hear the gospel of salvation, today, I urge you to accept Jesus Christ's gift of salvation. You may never get another chance.

      • CJM2

        At the crucifixion, Christ told the other man that one can be saved at the last minute...It's better, however, to always accept and honor Christ as the Son of God---but there are second chances.

        • smartgranny55

          The 2nd thief on the other cross is not spending eternity in heaven. You may or may not get another chance to accept Christ. But, if your brain ceases to function, (death) you don't get another chance.

        • george

          CJM2 smartgranny55 • an hour ago

          At the crucifixion, Christ told the other man that one can be saved at the last minute...It's better, however, to always accept and honor Christ as the Son of God---but there are second chances.
          -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Sorry, smartgranny55,, but you are mistaken. There is no such thing as "death bed" repentance, or to be saved at the last minute, (another apostate teaching of the Catholic Church). After Christ's death on the cross, he ascended to His father and then visited the spirits of the dead in the spirit world, to preach His gospel, where all the dead go to await the resurrection, either in paradise, where the righteous go, or to spirit prison, where the wicked go. He organized his Church there just as He did here on the earth, that salvation might come to ALL, thereby God being the just and merciful unto all His children who lived, or have or ever will live, in this world, never having had the opportunity to accept Jesus Christ and the true Gospel in life. As it states in 1 Peter chapter 3:18-21

          18 "For Christ also hath once asuffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

          19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

          20 Which sometime were bdisobedient, when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

          21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"

          This is the doctrine of the restored Church of Jesus Christ upon the earth today, with living Apostles and Prophets and real priesthood authority. These are the signs of the true and living Church Christ organized during His mortal ministry. Seek for it, and ye shall find it!

        • patriotusa2

          Any person who sincerely repents of his sins whether it be on his "deathbed" or not, will be saved. There is no time limit on a genuine contrite heart according to scripture which clearly states that no one can measure the mercy of God.

        • george

          That supposition is not supported anywhere in the Bible. How can you "repent" on your deathbed? To repent is to turn away from your sins, meaning confess them, ask for forgiveness of God and the offended party, pay restitution, if possible, to the offended party, and do them no more, proving to God by your actions that you truly have repented . How can someone do those things on their deathbed, other than ask God for forgiveness. This is one of the great lies Satan has perpetrated upon the children of God, "eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die". Confessing Christ on your deathbed is not repentance and you certainly have no chance in this life, for which we will be judged out of the "Book of Life" (Rev. 20), to prove you have accepted Christ in your heart and have committed to do as he did during His life. i.e. care for the poor, the widow and the fatherless, and keep yourself unspotted from the world, which is what James said is "true religion" (James 1:27)

          You are correct about no time limit on a genuine contrite heart, but to say someone can be saved on their deathbed after living a riotous life, contrary to the commandments of God, and say they will be saved in the Kingdom of God and dwell with God, Christ and those who filled their lives with good works is unbiblical and self deceiving. For no unclean thing can enter into the kingdom of God. Where is justice for the true follower of Christ for a life of righteousness, repentance and service to God's children, if the man/woman who chose to follow satan, knowingly or not, throughout life, but on their deathbed, faced with the terror of facing their God and giving an accounting of their time on earth, says they are sorry and is ready to accept Christ as their Savior when they had no desire to do so in this life? That is not the true doctrine of Christ, and to say so is foolishness.

        • patriotusa2

          You are entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine. You responded to a poster, and I responded to you with my opinion as well. When it comes to religion, a multitude of beliefs, interpretations, and the like are bound to surface and who is to say just how far does the mercy of God extend to those who are sincerely sorry knowing that this is the last chance they have for forgiveness. Whether or not God will forgive them, is not for either one of us to determine. All I know is if it is too late as you say, whether that person be sincere or not, then there are a lot of clergy of every denomination going to prisons and deathbeds in vain.

        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

          Try reading God's preserved word in english which is the King James Bible.

        • patriotusa2

          I have read the Bible more than once Raymond, and have studied it for years. The King James Bible is just one of the many revised and new versions made available today. The warning in the back of the Book of Revelation from the Lord admonishing those who have added or subtracted to His Word, wasn't spoken for nothing.

        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.
        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.
        • george

          Patriot, you have either misread the last verses of Revelation or have been taught what you repeated in error. Let's take a look:

          18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

          19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

          The Book of Revelation is at the end of the Bible, because it prophesies of things to come in the last days, whereas the rest of the Bible, excepting the Book of Daniel and much of Isaiah, is historical, but it was NOT the last writings of the apostles.

          As John wrote, anyone who adds to or takes away from the revelations that God showed unto him and he was commanded to write, is what John is making reference to. Is it your opinion that everything Christ did or said is in the Bible, or the teachings of his Apostles also? Is it your belief that God is now and will evermore be silent and not speak to His children when he desires to?

          In Amos 3:7 is says, "Surely the Lord, God, will do nothing, except he revealeth His word unto His servants, the Prophets." It has been His way from the beginning of recorded history, and continues to be so today. There are prophets and apostles upon the earth today. Literally, not figuratively. Seek them and their words at LDS.org, and find out what He wants you to know and do today!

        • patriotusa2

          I was referring to what Jesus had said about anyone adding or subtracting to His Word. It is actually considered a curse to those who do these things, and yet, without a doubt, they have done exactly that. There are new versions, revised versions, re-revised versions, etc. If anyone is under the impression that nothing has ever been added or subtracted then they have never compared the old and the new. I didn't misunderstand anything in my estimation.

        • george

          Once again, John was referring to anyone adding to the prophecies he recorded in the book of Revelation, and not to the rest of the Bible, which is a man-selected collection of the history of the Jews, of Christ's ministry and the acts/teachings of the Apostles. God can and does, speak and add to His word. If you wish, you may site any verse that says that God will not speak more of His word to His children, or has not, or cannot. If you do, then I will stand corrected.

          I agree with you that there are many interpretations of God's word. That is not adding to it, that is man's struggle to understand and interpret God's word without the benefit of divine revelation, relying upon their own understanding instead of God's true meaning. This is why there are so many different denominations of Christ's original Church He organized during his earthly ministry. There is only one "true" church, meaning, a church that has all the authority and teachings of Christ's original Church, and I bear witness to you that it is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. If you want to know for yourself if this is true, then go to LDS.ORG, and start studying the teachings and doctrine of the Church, obtain and read the Book of Mormon, and ask God if it's true or not. If you seek and ask in sincerity, you will receive an answer!

        • patriotusa2

          George, there's no point in going over this again. You're a Mormon and I'm a Catholic, and our Bibles and interpretations like most other denominations, are sometimes world's apart. I'm more than just sure, George, that the Lord did not mean at the very end of His Word, that the curse and the blessings were just meant for prophecies and nothing else. To me it is significant that His last words were at the end of the Bible offering a blessing to those who read and adhere to His words. The curse in itself means there is a high price to pay for tampering with anything written in the Bible as people cannot pick and choose to obey and to ignore anything they want. Yes, it was meant for prophecy, but it was also meant for the scriptures in general. It stands to reason that the Lord would not only warn those about tampering with prophecy and yet exclude the entire works of His Word especially when His warning was at the very end of it all. There's a lot of controversy over the interpretation of this curse and blessings, but to me the one that I believe, encompasses ALL works of scripture - not just prophecy written in the Book of Revelation.

        • george

          Patriot, doesn't it bug the heck out of you when people, responding to the article about the Pope and what he did or didn't say, or what he did or didn't mean? You can try to explain in simplest terms, using the Popes own words, and yet they still want to put their own "spin" on what they "are more than just sure" he said.

          You said in your post, "There's a lot of controversy over the interpretation of this curse and blessings, but to me the one that I believe, encompasses ALL works of scripture - not just prophecy written in the Book of Revelation." If you truly believe that ALL the words of God, or works of scripture, are encompassed in the Holy Bible, then nothing I or anyone says, will matter. God lives today, and speaks today. In John 21:25 it says:

          25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

          If those "other things" came to us, would you reject them because they weren't included in the Bible, as it has been compiled today? Christ said, " .... It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

          Is God dead? Can He not speak to man today. If He did, would you listen? Or would that be "adding to His word", which you say is forbidden? Not from any scripture, but by your personal interpretation.

          If you are referring solely to interpretation of scripture, that is not adding to or taking away. That is just men struggling to understand Christ's teachings without the help of the Holy Spirit to understand the true meaning. Thus we have a multitude of denominations and churches, based on individual interpretation of scripture.

          When it gets right down to it, either the Catholic Church is true and the Mormon Church is false, or vice versa. The protestants haven't a leg to stand on. For both our Churches claim divine authority, directly from Christ. All others are apostates who protested against the teachings of the Catholic Church and were cut off, and you know what I believe about which Church is true! ;) We've got additional scripture that testifies of Christ and his divinity, mission and teachings. Read the Book of Mormon and tell me that it doesn't enlarge your soul and increase your love and witness of Christ as the Son of God and the Savior of the World. I testify that it does. More of God's word to increase our faith in Christ! Why would anyone try and denounce that?

        • patriotusa2

          I appreciate your civility, George, as some people can be very radical when it comes to what they believe, and literally call you every name in the book if you happen to believe something else. George, I didn't want to convey the message that I would only believe what was in the Bible and nothing else, as I am familiar with the passage you quoted about the many other things that Jesus did, etc. I always try to take the advice of St. Paul, and "test the spirits to see if they be real." I'll be honest with you George, I do believe that every religion including my own falls short of the glory of God, as does mankind. The Bible is more than 1/3 prophecy and in the last days we are warned that every man will want to be superior to others, among other things. Christ did say that whoever is with Me is not against Me, so I always try to respect religions that do believe He is the Son of God as I remember that scripture verse he spoke to His apostles. Truly there are some erroneous interpretations out there, but according to St. Paul that too, will happen because of man's presumptuousness. Paul makes it very clear that not even he knew everything and wouldn't until he came face to face with God. He said that man will always see things through a glass darkly and his presumption will many times be in err. He stated that man can only know "in part" and the rest will be hidden until it is fully explained by God Himself. Although, I believe we were meant to learn scripture and study it, however, we are not to believe that everything we have learned is absolutely what God intended. I try to live by those words, and the only religion I really loathe is that of the Muslims because I do believe it to be Satanic and of pagan origins. (I also stay clear of the Jehovah's who are not centered on Christ but Michael, the archangel.) Insofar as all other religions are concerned, if they believe in God and His Son, then they are not against Him. Regarding the Pope, he is a servant of the Lord.

        • george

          Thank you for your civility, as well, patriot. I will say one more thing on this issue. I think we are both on the same page, for the most part. I too agree that too much has been added to or taken away from the pure teachings of Christ as originally taught by Him and the early Apostles, that is why, I testify, that there was a need for a restoration of all things.

          On another note, when the book of Revelations was revealed to John and he recorded it, there was no Bible, so you cannot refer to it when you make reference to the last verses in the book of revelation. It was a book unto itself, and there could have been no reference, futuristically or otherwise, to the collection of writings compiled hundreds of years after Christ and the Apostle's ministry that could be implied when John wrote about the plagues that would be poured out on those that added unto or took away from the prophecies in that book.

          I, too, believe the Pope to be a good man and a servant of the Lord.

          Keep the faith, my brother, and may God bless you in all you do to help others to believe in Christ as our Lord and Savior!

        • patriotusa2

          Thank you, George. I wish the same for you as well. You're right about the Bible not being in existence during John's revelation, although the works of all the apostles had been around for a long time before John died. The Lord's plan to make sure that all His Words would be eventually compiled into a final book, seems to be what many other scholars believe the Lord was referring to when he issued that warning - knowing that John's revelations would be the final chapter. On the other hand there's many others scholars that don't concur, and believe Jesus was just referring to that one prophecy. I guess we will never know for sure, George, until we too, come face to face with God. May God also bless you as well, my friend, and it's been a real pleasure discussing religion with a man of your caliber. "When two or more speak my name, there I am in the midst of them." No doubt, that applies to all those who discuss him over the net as well. Considering that a Mormon and a Catholic had such a civil discussion about the Lord without hostility, and each allowing the other to keep their own beliefs, I think it's safe to say that He might have been glad to be among us. God bless!

        • george

          Eternal life and the salvation of souls should not, and is not, left to one's personal opinion. Truth is truth and is eternal and unchanging and unalterable.

          Good men and women visit those in prison and it gives hope to those they visit. Clergy are acting on the admonition of Christ to visit the poor, needy, sick, imprisoned, etc., and they will be rewarded for their good works. Doing good works is never vain. Don't be offended at my post. I only say what Christ taught.

          There is no biblical basis for deathbed repentance, but there is still hope for the sinner who dies in their sins, for if they never heard the true gospel of Jesus Christ on this earth, they will still have a chance to hear and accept it in the spirit world (where the departed spirits of this world go to await the resurrection and final judgement).

          Christ told His disciples, in my Father's House (kingdom) there are many mansions. Paul taught that there is a glory of the Sun, the moon and the stars, referencing that there are degrees of glory in God's kingdom. 1 Corinthians 15:14 states:

          40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

          41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

          42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

          43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

          All of God's children that have lived upon the earth will inherit a kingdom of Glory, unless they become sons of perdition, or the unrepentant murderer, which will be cast into outer darkness with Satan and his angels. The highest degree of glory, or that which is likened to the Sun, is reserved for those that have accepted Christ, been baptized and received the sanctifying power of the Holy Ghost, and filled their days with the good works of serving others, as Christ and His Apostles did. For just as there are varying degrees of righteousness and good works, there has been prepared by God, our Father, differing degrees of glory and reward in the kingdoms prepared for His children. The idea that there is only Heaven and Hell is an apostate doctrine that has no foundation in biblical teachings.

          I hope this helps shed light on the false doctrine of deathbed repentance.

        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

          No one knows how long we have on
          this earth. Only a fool would wait until
          he is on his death bed to receive Jesus.

          Many people die suddenly and without warning.

        • patriotusa2

          The world is full of fools Raymond. It happens all the time, that's why there is clergy going around to prisons to those on death row and visiting those in hospitals.

        • george

          Agreed!

        • CJM2

          Only GOD can forgive--that is not in man's arena. And reread your scripture because Christ DID tell the thief he would be with Him in Paradise.

        • Rigoberto Vega

          You should take your own advice and read John 20:20-23.

          Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

          God alone has the power to forgive sins by nature, but God has shared that power with His Church which comes to us through its ministers.

        • george

          From whom did those ministers receive their authority to act in Christ's name? Hebrews 5:4-6 states:

          4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.

          5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

          6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchisedec.

          In John 20:20-23, Christ was speaking to His Holy Apostles, to whom he had given His authority and keys to govern the Church and perform the ordinances of salvation to it's members, not to the Church, as you stated.

          So, I ask again, from whom did your minister receive his priesthood authority to act in the name of God and have it valid and recognized in the heavens?

        • CJM2

          God has never shared His power to forgive---that is His arena, not the pope's or any other mere man.

        • george

          Christ did tell the thief he would be with Him in Paradise, not in His Father's Kingdom. BIG difference. You, and I, and everyone that has ever lived upon the earth, will also be in Paradise after you die, unless we have lived a very wicked life, then we will be in spirit prison, to await the resurrection and final judgement before the bar of God to be judged of your works while in life. You will only be saved in the Kingdom of God if you have taken Christ's name upon you through baptism and sanctification through the Holy Ghost. This is Christ's teaching and His doctrine as he explained it to Nicodemus (John 3:3-5).

        • CJM2

          I doubt that Paradise and Heaven are two separate places....and there is no such thing as a "spirit prison" either.

        • george

          CJM2, if you say there is no place as a "Spirit prison", then you don't believe the Bible.

          Peter 3:18-20,

          18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

          19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

          20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

          The chief Apostle, Peter, is telling us that Christ himself went to preach His Gospel to the "spirits in prison", (i.e. Spirit prison). Do you just not believe this part of the Bible, or that Peter got it wrong?

          In regards to Paradise and Heaven being two separate places, you are correct. They aren't. Paradise is part of the Heaven's, but Paradise is not the final kingdom of glory to which most of our Father in Heaven's children will reside. If so, then the Bible is incorrect about a final judgement after the resurrection. These are spirits that Christ when to preach His gospel to, not resurrected beings. Both thieves on the cross went to the world of spirits, either paradise or spirit prison, to await the resurrection and final judgement. We know at least 1 of them went to Paradise, and we can suppose that the other went to spirit prison.

          So, all that the bible teaches supports that there must be a place where the spirits of the dead go to await the resurrection and judgement. I don't know why that is hard to understand or believe?

        • CJM2

          How judgmental of you, George. Who are you to presume I do not believe in God? Catholics are like liberal trolls--if a person doesn't believe as they do, then that person is a wasted human being. It's no wonder that the Catholic population has been dwindling over the years. There is NO man, regardless of what he deems himself to be, that can get me to pay him homage as if he were The Almighty, Himself. Popes, priests, pastors, ministers, and any other clergy are mere flesh and blood and are fallible---they are humans and do not replace the Creator. I don't worship saints, believe in kissing the pope's ring, and all the pomp generated within the church. Christ did NOT ordain ANY religion to be the only church in the world. As a matter of fact, NO CHURCH was ever designated to be the "one and only." Where Christ was concerned, His Church is the congregation of the people who listened, so one can speak with God and Christ anywhere, any time, and at any place; one does not need a fancy cathedral or a plain saltbox building in order to accomplish that. Christ taught us to believe in Him and His Father--He didn't tell us to honor Peter, who was an apostle (there are no "chief apostles"), but he was one of the twelve who accompanied Him in his travels.. These 12 men were selected to be witnesses to Christ and were instructed to spread the Word. Since Catholicism suits your need to know about God and His Son, Christ, fine---that is your choice. However, I chose NOT to remain within the Catholic Church and am well satisfied with MY choice.

        • george

          Dear CJM2, I never said you didn't believe in God. Quite to the contrary, as I read your posts it is clearly evident that you have a deep and abiding love for and belief in God and His Son, Jesus Christ. I apologize for offending you with my comment. It certainly was not my intent. All I was saying is that if you believe what Christ and His Apostles wrote then you must believe in "Spirit prison" as it is actually written and recorded in the bible, that there is one of the places Christ visited after His death on the cross. You know, as well as I do, that you can't pick and choose what to believe that is written in the bible. Either you believe it or you don't.

          BTW, I'm not Catholic. Never have been and never will be. I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and we Do believe that there was meant to be one true Church that represents Christ and His true teachings.

          In John 10:16 it state:

          "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd"

          and in Ephesians 4:5;

          " One Lord, one faith, one baptism,"

          And then in Ephesians 4:10-18, the Apostle Paul spoke on this very thing, that there is only one faith, how we can recognize it, and how there must needs be a unity of faith, not many doctrines (churches), but one true doctrine (Church) of Christ. It says:

          10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

          11 And he agave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some,evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

          12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

          13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

          14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

          15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

          16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

          17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

          18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

          Now, whether you choose to believe these things is up to you, but the same darkness of mind concerning spiritual matters that exists today, existed then, and Paul spoke and taught of these things that there be no disputations or misunderstandings concerning the matter.

          You are correct that the catholic church is a fallen, apostate version of Christ's original church. This does not mean that catholics or those that believe in those precepts are evil, but they believe in error, as Paul spoke of. None should take offense, but should be grateful that truth is taught to show their error. But as Paul said, too many take offense because they "walk in the vanity of their mind..."

          Peter, was indeed the chief Apostle, or the Prophet of God, chosen to lead the Church after Christ's death. It was to Peter that the vision that told him to take the gospel to the Gentiles, came. It was Peter, James and John, that was always with Christ during the most intimate and important moments of His ministry, on the mount of transfiguration and in the garden of Gethsemane, to name only two.

          Christ organized His Church, with Priesthood authority and Keys, to be able to perform the saving ordinances necessary for entrance into God's Kingdom. That organization and priesthood was lost after the death of the apostles and then there came an apostasy, or falling away, as was prophesied by Paul in Thessalonians 2:3;

          3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

          After the falling away, a restoration was necessary, which restoration came about when Christ true Church was organized again on the earth on April 4, 1830, through Joseph Smith, Jr., a modern-day prophet of God.

          I testify that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is that true Church of Christ, with all the original teachings, keys and authority that was present in the ancient Church. If you want to find out for yourself if what I say is true, then study it earnestly and sincerely, and then ask God in faith, and he will reveal the truth of my witness to you.

        • Screeminmeeme

          Ah......a Mormon speaks.
          You are wrong. There ARE deathbed confessions.....and at that very last moment, if someone cries out to Jesus as His Savior...He is saved. Now legalists don't like this idea because they are counting on their good works to save them and carry a pride about those works. However, God in his infinite wisdom and mercy, gives mankind up to the last instant of his life to be saved.

          I am a retired critical care nurse and have been with many people as they lay dying. The last sense to go is hearing.....and that is not an accident. God ordained it so and the Word says that ''faith cometh by hearing.....''. We are spirits, housed temporarily in a body that is dying, but we can hear and process information tho we are unconscious.

          Many times I've prayed over people as they lay dying and whispered the gospel of grace in their ear. And my hope is that some would have chosen Christ.

          BTW...I am not Catholic but have been a committed Christian and ardent Bible student for nearly 60 years. One of my ministeries has been to Mormons, who often live expemplary lives but who have been deceived and are devoid of the truth about Jesus Christ.

        • george

          Screeminmeeme, it is you that are deceived in believing the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture, that will ultimately lead you from the true light of the everlasting gospel of Christ.

          Never once did I say that we are saved by our good works. Quite to the contrary, I, and all Latter-day Saints, believe that we are saved by grace alone, but we also follow the admonition of the Prophets and Apostles of Old and in modern times, that teach, according to the Bible, that all men will be judged and rewarded according to our works here upon the earth. I refer you to Revelations 20:12 "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.",(not saved according to their works, only judged) but I'm sure you have read that many times, and try to reason that away.

          Then you referenced Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." But how can the one, on their deathbed, incapable of action to prove their faith in Christ, be therefor saved? Christ answered this in Matthew 7:21-23,

          "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

          22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

          23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

          Notice that Christ said "but he that doeth the will of my Father" shall enter into the Kingdom of God. How can a person do anything on their deathbed. Deathbed repentance is an empty comfort to the living and false doctrine. By your doctrine, Adolf Hitler could be saved in the Kingdom of God by confessing Christ right before he put a bullet into his own head (murder), not to mention the millions of deaths he caused to be committed by his word. You weren't there. It could have happened. I will believe in the true doctrine of Christ, and be saved through belief on His name, manifested by the fruits of faith that are borne of the works I do in the flesh, and be judged and rewarded accordingly. I encourage you to do the same, and quit teaching and believing in this false doctrine of deathbed repentance.

        • passingby

          I'm curious...since you mention Latter-day Saints perhaps you can explain to me...what is the purpose of being baptized for the dead? Serious question...

        • george

          Hi passingby. I'm glad you asked about baptism for the dead, which is an original doctrine and practice of the ancient church of Jesus Christ.

          As Christ taught Nicodemus in John, chapter 3:

          1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a rulerof the Jews:

          2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

          3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

          4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?

          5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

          Here we read that baptism and sanctification through the reception of the Holy Ghost, is required for all men and women to enter into the Kingdom of God. Which then begs the question, "What about all of those that have lived, or will live, on the earth without a knowledge of Christ and His teachings, or children who die before the age of accountability. Are these condemned to hell and eternal damnation, as is taught in most other christian churches? Or do they languish in purgatory? A just and loving Heavenly Father would never be so cruel. From the beginning, God's "plan of salvation" for all His children was laid out before the foundations of this world, whereby all men and women would have the chance to hear, accept and live the teachings of Christ, and therby gain eternal life (i.e. life in the presence of God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ) or choose to reject those teachings and live apart from their presence and love. We are given a small glimpse into this plan in 1 Peter 3:18-20,

          18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

          19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

          20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

          And again in 1 Peter 4:6 which says:

          "For, for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."

          So, the gospel has, is and will be heard by all of God's children, whether in this life or the next, thereby making God a just and loving God and giving His children the opportunity to accept or reject His teachings. But as baptism is an earthly ordinance, necessary for entrance into His Kingdom, how are the spirits of those that have accepted Christ and his Gospel in the spirit world, to enter into God's Kingdom unless they have the opportunity to be baptized and be sanctified by the reception of the Holy Ghost?

          We read now from 1 Corinthians 15:29, where the Apostle Paul asked this question:

          29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

          Paul asked the question, rhetorically, to answer the debate the members of the Church in Corinth were having concerning the resurrection of the dead, (which some of the Jews taught that there is no resurrection of the spirit with the body after death).

          These two principles; the Gospel preached in the Spirit world to those who lived before Christ, (and continuing still), and baptism for the dead, were a part of the teachings of Christ and the early Church. These true doctrines, along with others, as well as the priesthood authority to govern the Church and administer the ordinances of salvation, were lost after the death of the Apostles and the subsequent end of continuing revelation. Then, gloriously restored through a modern-day prophet, Joseph Smith, Jr. in 1830 when the true Church of Jesus Christ was organized again on the earth, with all the authority and keys pertaining to the kingdom of God on the earth.

          Today, in Holy Temples of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the ordinance of baptism and reception of the Holy Ghost, for those who are deceased, is performed by the living, vicariously, or in place of. In other words, a living person is baptized in the name of someone who is deceased. It is then left up to the individual in the spirit world to accept or reject that baptism.

          To find out more concerning temples, baptism for the dead, and more about Christ's restored Church on the earth today, go to LDS.ORG. You will find the answers to many of your questions.

        • passingby

          Wow! It was a serious question on my part, and I appreciate your time and the effort you gave in answering me. I will follow the example of the Bereans, and look into it - with the Scripture references you've given me. Thank you.

        • patriotusa2

          I, too, believe forgiveness can be achieved at the last minute, just as the worker of the last hour received the same wages of those who had worked much longer. Although, it provoked jealousy, God let it be known that the decision was His and His alone. We are told He works in mysterious ways, and even a sorrowful sigh or a groan coming from a contrite spirit at the last hour can be enough to save that soul.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Sandra-Smith/100000821491539 Sandra Smith

      No, he's not; read that more closely. He's saying "good works" alone is sufficient to provide salvation. He NULLIFIED the work of the cross with that.

      • MGL2012

        You are twisting his words. The Church has never taught that.

      • Rigoberto Vega

        Sandra- I'll send you $100 bucks if you can quote where the Pope mentions the word "salvation" or "Heaven" in his message. Read me earlier long response to this article explaining how Catholic theology distinguishes between redemption and salvation.

        Christ has redeemed humanity from the grips and dominion of sin and the devil. In order to be saved, Catholic theology teaches that each person must accept that free gift of redemption for themselves.

    • passingby

      Unfortunately, if you mean Judgement when you say "IN THE END", it will be too late, as judgement doesn't determine your "location" in eternity, just the degree of punishment or rewards; salvation is determined by one's choices in this life (choice, actually - of belief in Christ as payment of one's sin debt):

      Hebrews 9 27And inasmuch as it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this cometh judgment;

      American Standard Version. 1995 (Heb 9:27). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

  • KayDeeBeau

    I want to believe that something was lost in the translation. While it is true that Jesus' death, burial and resurrection paid the price for all mankind, unless one accepts the intercession of Jesus, one must pay the penalty for his sin himself. And while faith without works is dead, works without faith is meaningless.

    If I could do enough good works to achieve Heaven, then there was no reason for Jesus' sacrifice.

    The reason for the Lamb of God was because I could never be good enough or do enough good to atone for my sin before a Holy God.

    When the penalty of sin is death and damnation and when in order to pay that price I am condemend to hell, God in His mercy, took the sin death penalty upon Himself through Jesus to satisfy the sentence that should have been mine.

    I can chose to accept the gift of Jesus as sin debt paid in full or I can chose to continue in my sin and accept the penalty to be waged upon myself.

    I am a great sinner. I serve a Greater God who made a way for me to be made righteous before Him. Oh what a gift. Oh what a Savior.

    Naysayers - don't bother to respond. I am not commanded to convince you. I am only commanded to tell you. I have told you. The choice is yours. I will live with my choice and while on this side of heaven I will pray for you and may mourn you over your choice - in the end it really won't matter to me - there are no tears in Heaven but there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth in the other place ........ Choose wisely (or not) I have fulfilled my mission....

  • edgineer

    Is it really Christian to believe that good people are to be condemned because they lived before Jesus or never heard of him?

    • smartgranny55

      People who lived before Christ, and believed in God (Yahweh) were redeemed by Christ. They went to Paradise after dying.

      • patriotusa2

        Jesus went to where those in limbo were during the three days of his death and redeemed them from their "prison." All those who believed in God were saved.

        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

          Wrong again.Title: The Holy Bible, King James Version

          Luke 23:32
          And there were also two other, malefactors, led with him to be put to death.

          Luke 23:33
          And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.

          Luke 23:34
          Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

          Luke 23:35
          And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.

          Luke 23:36
          And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar,

          Luke 23:37
          And saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself.

          Luke 23:38
          And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

          Luke 23:39
          And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.

          Luke 23:40
          But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

          Luke 23:41
          And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

          Luke 23:42
          And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

          Luke 23:43

          And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

        • patriotusa2

          You really have a problem Raymond, and it's no wonder to me why you were blacklisted from posting on some sites. I being a Catholic do not read the KJV of the Bible which common sense does dictate. You seem to have this constant drive to prove yourself almost infallible when it comes to politics and especially religion. You spoke in great lengths about the Vatican II Council and yet you were totally unaware of the dozens of Protestant clergy that attended and co-joined the Catholics in compromising all their values. It's just Catholics that you go after with a vengeance and quite frankly, I'm sick of you following me around on this Internet. You refuse to let anyone else have their opinions and seem to think that you and those that agree with you are the only ones possessing the truth. Follow someone else, Raymond, because you and all your copying and pasting scripture verses isn't going be able to manipulate me.

        • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

          I counter lies with truth.
          I'm not going anywhere.

        • patriotusa2

          You're equivalent to a terrorist, Raymond, pure and simple. All your dislike marks on my comments don't mean a hoot in blazes to me. You're a disturbed religious fanatic who is possessed with your own self-righteousness and takes great pride and pleasure in purporting all others to be liars who do not succumb to your own beliefs. You follow people for the sole purpose of having fuel to fodder your fire. (114 people you are now following)

        • smartgranny55

          It is interesting that you can interpret Raymond's motives for posting comments.

        • patriotusa2

          He has been following me around the web for eons, and I believe that I have earned the ability to interpret why he's doing it more so than anyone who has little or no experience with his harassment.

        • patriotusa2

          I knew you were sick Raymond before that last comment you sent to me about you doing the will of God. I knew this is what you thought, as you do have the same mindset as a Jihadist. It's nice to know that I was correct in my analysis of you, Raymond. This is just one of the reasons why you were prohibited from posting from months on end on several sites. They knew what they were doing!

    • Bobseeks

      Read the first chapter of Romans and then tell us what you think about your post.

    • Ray - Jesus is the Son of God.

      Jesus say there is none that is good.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Sandra-Smith/100000821491539 Sandra Smith

        Except His Father. Finish the statement, please. He also said we would be accounted as acceptable, providing we put our total trust and belief in His Father, and the sacrifice of the cross, as were the OT saints.

        • MGL2012

          The OT Saints did not know about the person of Jesus Christ.

        • smartgranny55

          There are hundreds of prophecies about the birth, life and death of Christ. All were fulfilled by Jesus. The OT saints had not met Jesus but they knew He was coming.

        • MGL2012

          No question they awaited the Messiah, but they did not meet Him in the flesh. They only knew of Him.

        • Avspatti

          We haven't met Him in the flesh, either.

        • Avspatti

          They knew about the prophecy of the coming Messiah and were looking ahead to that event.

    • KayDeeBeau

      Ever heard of the Old Testament? God's covenant with Abraham and Moses? Ever heard that Jesus believers are grafted to the branch of the tree of Abraham? Ever heard that salvation comes from the Jews? Ever heard that Jesus came to fulfill the law? Do you know which law that is? Again ever heard of Moses?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Sandra-Smith/100000821491539 Sandra Smith

      There used to be an old Jewish saying that "the Bible was written in the stars"; God made provisions, indeed, for US to have the opportunity for salvation is the reason the Jews were made to NOT recognize their Messiah in the Lamb of God; but to continue to wait for the Warrior-King of the second coming. And yes it truly is a Christian thing to believe that those who claim to never have heard , especially in this day and age, are not saved. It's our duty to present the truth of the Gospel to them, but not to excuse them. Many who lived before Jesus were also saved by their faith in what He was coming {in their future} to do, such as Abraham, David, all the OT prophets, and many of the ordinary folk who also believed.

    • blaineiac

      We have OUR dispensation to deal with (the Church age, having begun at Pentecost) and don’t need to speculate about the salvation of persons who lived in B.C. eras. God will choose whom He wants, and He knows the hearts of all, and what we will have for breakfast three weeks from Tuesday.

  • John OMalia

    There are several key elements to salvation. First and foremost we had to have redemption through Christ. Secondly, we must strive to do good. Salvation given can be rejected by our acts. Finally., we must do nothing that causes another to lose his soul.

    Clearly words and deeds must be such as to be enveloped by the redemptive spirit. Can a man be truly "good" if he has hate in his heart for others? He does good things for praise only. In his heart he hates others, hardly a formula for redemption. Sure, we were redeemed from original sin. Does that mean we can then spend the rest of our lives committing every sin imaginable?

  • John Hart

    Jesus said, "Don't bicker among yourselves over me....
    Do not thus find fault among yourselves...

    Those who think they know more than the Pope are more deceived than the Pope. It is not by our words or claims salvation is gained but by our deeds. People who go around saying they are saved while condemning others for whatever reason are the worst of fools.

    Professed atheists who follow God's law are far better off than phoney Christians begetting evil by spreading divisive seeds. Stopping the Beast from taking over humanity is going to take great sacrifice by all believers, Catholic Christian, Jew, Hindu, Muslim and many with no faith at all.

    • Bobseeks

      Liar - those who are outside of Christ have no place in GOD's plan of redemption - John 14:6.

      • John Hart

        Who is Christ? What does "outside of Christ" mean?

        What so ever you do to the least among you, you do to Christ.

        Are those without faith the least?

        Are embryos, fetuses and infants the least?

        Are prisoners on death row the least?

        Why would God give us a message two thousand years ago and never speak to anyone since?

        If God spoke to men in the past why not now?

        Does a parent warn a child of to prove something or to keep them from harm?

        Does God reveal the future to prove how great he is or to warn people of things we should avoid?

        Is it possible to know how God came to be?

        Is it possible to know how God created you?

        Where does God reside?

        What is the smallest bit of matter made of?

        Can science prove God exists?

        Who is Dame Julian?

        • passingby

          Much of your post eludes my logic and reasoning (which, you'll note, I didn't say are perfect, or even good); since you devote four lines to this topic, I'll expound on it... I just think if we're going to use scripture, it should be presented correctly

          You've misquoted the scripture, Matthew 25:40, KJV, part of which goes:

          "Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

          The words "my brethren" give a whole different meaning to the verse than that which you seem to suppose. He was talking about his disciples, or, at a stretch, the nation of Israel. Or you can choose for yourself based on the definition of the Greek word used in scripture, presented here:

          ἀδελφός adelphós; gen. adelphoú, fem. adelphḗ (79), masc. noun from the collative a (1), denoting unity, and delphús (n.f.), a womb. A brother. Adelphós generally denotes a fellowship of life based on identity of origin, e.g., members of the same family (Matt. 1:2; Luke 3:1, 19; 6:14); members of the same tribe, countrymen, and so forth (Acts 3:22; 7:23; Rom. 9:3). One of the same nature, a fellow man was regarded as a brother (Matt. 5:22–24, 47). Adelphós also came to designate a fellowship of love equivalent to or bringing with it a community of life (Matt. 12:50; Mark 3:35; 10:29, 30; Acts 12:17). In this manner Jesus speaks of His brethren (Matt. 25:40; 28:10; John 20:17; Rom. 8:29; Heb. 2:11, 17). The members of the same Christian community are called brothers (John 21:23; Acts 9:30; Rom. 16:14; 1 Cor. 7:12).

        • John Hart

          It's amazing how many ways people can twist scripture to mask their sin. Christ's message is extremely clear and consistent all the way to the Cross. God chose to die for the scum of the Earth, not for the self righteous who go around thinking they are doing god's will denigrating anyone who doesn't believe as they do. Until you know why God exists and what God is made from, you know nothing for sure and when you know, it's the only thing you know for sure.

          Catholic bashing, Hindu bashing, Jew bashing and Muslim bashing, is the Devil's work. It is good to talk about one's faith and it's bad to denigrate the faith of others.

        • passingby

          Are you sure you've posted this reply in the right place??? I don't see where it pertains to my post, which was to merely point out the correct wording of the Scripture to which you refer.

          I hadn't supposed you were twisting Scripture by you inaccuracy in representing it...I had merely noted it wasn't complete as you posted it, and I wanted it correctly represented..after all, it is the Word of God. I further offered more information as to the possibilities of the use of the phrase "my brethren", and allowed you to choose the usage you desired - I was quite generous in my words and attitude toward you - which is partially why I'm puzzled as to your response...perhaps it WAS intended for someone else?

          I don't see where I denigrated anyone's faith, and I certainly wasn't bashing any religion. I did say I couldn't follow your train of thought, and even stated it probably was due to my own shortcomings.

          Should you have a comment that has any relationship to what I posted, please, feel free to give your thoughts; but I do ask that you keep on topic, or explain how what you say IS on topic.

        • John Hart

          Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you or imply you denigrated anyone's faith. I was expanding the point the truth of the Bible is in the whole and can't be derived from one passage.

          The statement "What so ever you do to the least among you, you do to Christ." wasn't a quote derived from Matthew 25:40, it's a summation of the message of Christ's life, however in the context of: Then the righteous* will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?'
          it's quite clear the King isn't judging based on how the Apostles treated each other, but on how they treated their fellow men.

          NO MAN CAN SAVE HIMSELF! it's by God's grace. Even Hindus recognize this. The divisions between religion are mostly cultural, NOT fundamental. The problem is the self righteous are conditioned into blindness and their ego won't let them consider they might be wrong. NO ONE canknow anything absolutely except that GOD IS LOVE and Christ came to show us what it means.

          The left confuses Love for sexual gratification and the right suffers from shame. Law that's not derived from love isn't any kind of law at all and the people of this World are about to get a painful lesson on what bad law leads to.

        • passingby

          Thanks for your response...

          First, I wasn't offended...I was puzzled

          Second, I don't have the benefit of the information the asterisk next to the work "righteous" in your second paragraph would lead me to if I had the complete document, but I don't disagree that we're supposed to do good to/for our fellow man.

          Third, when you bring in the Hindu religion and say that the divisions are mostly cultural, NOT fundamental, you cause me to say that we will just have to agree to disagree, and I won't try to force my beliefs on you - it seems that you have been exposed to the truth, and that's all I'm supposed to do for anyone, not dictate how that truth is used.

          Yes, GOD IS LOVE, and I'm so very grateful that that is true.

          Take care...

        • Screeminmeeme

          .

    • Avspatti

      The Bible, the Word of God, is the place to look for answers, not the Pope unless his teachings are in agreement with the Bible. The Bible clearly states that salvation comes through faith in Jesus Christ and not by works. (see Romans 2:8-9)

      " For by Grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God - NOT OF WORKS lest any man should boast." (emphasis mine)

      • MGL2012

        The Church does not teach salvation through works alone. That's your misunderstanding.

        Salvation is a gift of grace which we can freely respond to or obey and ignore. That is why "Faith without works is dead." "Be doers of the word not hearers only, deluding yourselves." "What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him." There's a lot more to Scripture than a verse from Paul. You have to read all in context.

        Paul speaks about the works of the law expected in the Old Covenant. Jews though they ware justified through those works. The Lord expects good works from believers. Read Matthew 25:31-46.

        Are you sure you are in agreement with the Bible?

        • Avspatti

          Yes, but good works are the result of faith, of believing in Christ. They are not the means to salvation. Only Christ is the way to salvation.

        • Yoikes

          Very well put.

        • Avspatti

          I think that we are actually saying the same thing. We Protestants often refer to the fruit of a believer, see Galatians 5, as a way to affirm their Christianity. In other words, our inward faith and belief in Christ should be shown in both our outward behavior (works) and our inward character (fruit). Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Gentleness, Goodness, Faith, Meekness, and Self-Control. Galatians 5:22-23

          If these are not present, then it is safe to assume that the person is not a believer. However, we are all still sinners in need of forgiveness, so nobody will show these 100% of the time, unfortunately.

        • passingby

          Galatians 5:22...and part of verse 23...list the fruit of the Spirit...

          Verses 20 and 21 are a partial list of the deeds of the flesh...

          Sorry to jump into your conversation, just seeking accuracy...

        • Avspatti

          Thanks. I corrected that.

        • Yoikes

          I think the problem with what the Pope said is that he DID say that salvation can be achieved through works alone, even for atheists. I hope he didn't really intend to say it this way, otherwise he put himself in contention with the precepts of his own church!

        • MGL2012

          He did not say that human works unaided by grace are salvific. Catholics have never believed that.

      • Avspatti

        Replying to myself to add that I appreciate that God's reasoning is noted in that if we were saved by works, knowing human nature as He does, we would most certainly take the credit for ourselves. We would not give the glory to God.

      • Rigoberto Vega

        The Pope never said anything about works and salvation brother. I'm so sorry you have such poor reading comprehension.

        If anyone can find where the Pope actually said all people are going to "Heaven" or are "saved," I'll send them $20 cash each.

        For an explanation of the Popes remarks , please read my original response to this article. You might learn something.

        • Mark Desade

          Oh yes the Pope did say that! Here's his remarks again "Yes, he can… The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!.. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.” Where is the "there" the Pope is referring to?
          The Pope's mistake here is that he assumes everyone is saved by the Blood of Christ. Only those who accept Jesus as their savior are saved. That's what the Bible says. Anything else, no matter what anyone says is plain wrong.

        • Rigoberto Vega

          Mark- Do you speak English?

          Look at your own quote above to see that you changed the word "redeemed" to "saved." Are you that gullible or are you just so emotional and passionate that you lost your ability to read the ACTUAL words of the Pope and want to read whatever reinforces your bias?

          The two words are not identical, otherwise, why would they both be found in Scripture to refer to two different realities? The word "redeemed" simply means paid for or purchased, atoned for, and possibly freed from a debt. Catholicism teaches that Christ death on the cross atones for all the sins of mankind. Furthermore, through his death and resurrection Christ fulfills the prophecy of Genesis 3:15 which does away with the Devil's uncontested dominion over the human race.

          Salvation refers to the process of receiving that gift of redemption personally through faith in the Son of God.

    • blaineiac

      “…who follow God’s Law…”?

      Why yes, THAT will get you into Heaven…but you must follow all of it, and follow it PERFECTLY, all the time, from day 1, having NEVER had even a wild THOUGHT of evil, or covetousness, or lust, or envy, or theft, or adultery, or murder, or ANY sin! Keep the Law perfectly, and you’re IN! (You’ve probably sinned at least once in your heart reading this…sorry, you lose!)

      The rest of us get there by repenting (changing one’s mind about our sin nature), and putting our total Faith in Jesus Christ, that whoever believes in Him and confesses with the mouth that Jesus is God who struck a tent of human flesh and moved in, that by His suffering and death on the Cross He purchased our ransom and forgave us our sins, even the ones we haven’t thought of yet, that we might have eternal life with Him in Heaven.

    • Yoikes

      Unfortunately, Hinduism worships the creation rather than the Creator, and further, Islam IS the Beast of which you speak. I have no "brotherhood" with the religion of Satan.

      • John Hart

        Have you considered the possibility the Creation and the Creator are one and the same? Perhaps like the TRINITY. The majority of BICKERING posters, think they know GOD, but the they don't and spend an inordinate amount of time pointing out
        the splinters of others while ignoring the log in their eye!

        • Screeminmeeme

          Not possible. Logically, The Creator, by definition, has to be outside of Creation....apart from it. The Creator was never created but is eternal, according to the Bible. If the Creator and the creation are one....then that would be pantheism and a false religion...and it is not taught in the Bible.

        • John Hart

          Exactly! The Creation is inside the creator. The Creation is an extension of the Creator. The Creator isn't created, just is! Before God, nothing was and without God there is nothing. Things exist only in relationship to other things, God isn't a thing but the eternal relationship between Father Son and Divine Spirit. This is what the Catholic Church teaches! This truth is where all religions converge. God is being of Absolute Truth, Unlimited Love and the Eternal Spirit that sustains it forever.

          Those who don't follow Christ's Law of Love, won't be getting into Heaven, no matter how hard they proclaim how they are saved. It doesn't matter what religion one follows, it's how one lives their life. how they treat others. Being judgmental about other religions isn't going to earn people brownie points in Heaven.

    • Mark Desade

      This is totally un-Biblical and fallacious, and in fact unacceptable to God and deadly to entering Heaven. No where in the Bible are this poster's arguments stated. Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God". In fact, Jesus said to call no man "your father", Matthew 23:9 "Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.for there is only one Father in Heaven". Calling a priest "father" or the pope "father" goes against Jesus' teaching. I would suggest reading a real Bible, not the Catholic one (I know, I grew up Catholic). The Pope isn't any better than anyone else, nor infallible. How can someone be fallible, then suddenly infallible when appointed Pope, then suddenly fallible when he's no longer Pope? Think about it. Only God/Jesus can stop the Beast, not a bunch of people, the Bible says so. And atheists aren't saved! They are doomed just like anyone else who doesn't come to Christ! Help yourself, because right now your beliefs aren't not in line with Biblical thinking. And you can't be saved unless you follow Christ.

    • RonWillison

      John.. You have more overall wisdom about what is afoot upon the earth than many here.

  • CJM2

    First of all, God said: "Let US make man in OUR IMAGE" (Genesis). Secondly, God sent Christ, His Son, for man's salvation. The "Pope" appears to be among those spreading false teachings. As a former Catholic, I left the church many years ago because I was taught that the pope is infallible. As a child, I believed this; as an adult, I found that the ONLY infallible beings are God and Christ---and that man has no authorization to create saints from among the congregation. The pope and his legions are mere men; they have no special consideration from God or Christ to set themselves above the law, whether that law is spiritual or national legal precepts. And in the third place, even Christ stated that man shall NOT be saved by his works alone---it takes faith and a profound belief in God and Christ.

    • Sienna

      The Pope is only infallible in faith and morals. And not through his own power, but through the protection of the Holy Spirit. That is an absolute necessity. Otherwise you get thousands of different interpretations and viewpoints which is exactly the problem we have now.

      • CJM2

        Again--NO MAN is infallible; if there were such a person, we wouldn't need God. The pope is just another human being who happens to enjoy his elevated lifestyle along with all the pomp and circumstances. And IF popes were infallible, then why do they die?

  • Robert Fertig

    John 14:6 This quote can also mean that there are many ways to God, even for current atheists, but ALL will be judged by Him (Christ). Pope Francis was expressing that ALL can be saved by Christ, clearly not by works alone. But faith without works is empty. The two essential Commandments are love of God, and love of neighbor. See Fertig's book on Amazon: "The Beauty & Wonder of Truth"

    • KayDeeBeau

      There is only one way - Jesus who told us I am the Way the Truth and the Life no man comes unto the Father but by me....
      Narrow and straight is the way - wide is the path that leads to unrighteousness.
      There are many ways to be wrong but only one Way to be right....

    • Bobseeks

      Nonsense - the only way to GOD is through Jesus. That is plainly stated in John 14:6.

      • John Hart

        Who is Jesus?

        What does "pick up your cross and follow" mean?

        The young man said to him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said to him, If you will be perfect, go and sell that you have, and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. …

        The only way to God is through Christ, the person of Love. What this means is with out love you have nothing. Claiming to believe while driving in the nails won't get anyone into Heaven!

  • Roger Lawhorn

    Thank you for this article. I am amazed at the number of pastors/ preachers, etc... that are suddenly denying Jesus for their own personal reasons. This is very hard to comprehend. My own church fell away and disbanded after the pastors hopped aboard the wrong bandwagon and started preaching poverty and went on witch hunts for anyone wanting to 'get rich'. I guess they don't read the bible.

  • Avspatti

    Biblically, works are the RESULT of faith, of believing. Works are not the CAUSE of faith, of salvation. Are we as believers expected to do good works? YES, of course. Our good works empowered by the Holy Spirit show to Whom we belong as well as act as His hands in the world.

  • AClearThought

    In the gospel of John chapter 3, verse 3 is the key to the difference between works vs relationship(salvation).
    Jesus said:
    "...I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."Catholic Douay Rheims translation.
    "..I say unto thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." King James translation
    "I can guarantee this truth : no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above."God's Word translation

    In His answer to the pharisee Nicodemus, Jesus defined the key to a relationship with God vs. a religion of works.

    In the Catholic tradition this and the following verses in chapter 3 have been presented in the ritual of Baptism and Confirmation, both religious symbols and neither of which fulfill the intended purpose of literally being born again via the Holy Spirit through salvation into a new Spiritual personal relationship with God.
    I now know the difference as I'm sure many of you have found as well. I pray many more will.

  • Prince Charly

    He talks a lot about doing good as opposed to evil, but what the pope doesn't realize is that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil kills: not just the evil kills, but the good on that tree also kills because it denies Christ Jesus and supplants it with good works that stink in the face of God Almighty. Run from this guy who thinks he can run a church without mighty signs wonders and miracles 2nd Corinthians 12:12.

  • DenisKhan

    Jesus Christ Did Not Die for Religion. He Died to Save the World.”For God So Loved the world….” (John3:16).

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  • http://www.de-navarro.com dnav

    I think you all are arguing semantics, kind of taking separate lines that do not intersect.

    First of all, when it comes to being saved, the high calling of God in Christ, the heavenly calling, being in the gathering together unto Christ, then absolutely there is no other name given among men whereby we may be saved (made whole) - Jesus Christ is The Way unto the Father.

    But you better go read your Bible in more detail regarding the end times, the gathering unto Christ, the resurrection of the just and unjust, and the second death.

    The first thing to note is that the resurrection of the just happens well AFTER the Church, the saved ones, are gathered unto Christ. There will be times of tribulation and a lot of terrible events that happen on the earth, and a period of time before the final end times come and that is when there will be a resurrection of the just and the unjust. The saved are already gathered and are actually WITH Christ in these judgements. We are his church and with him. So the resurrection of the just is not the same as the gathering of the saved.

    There will be people that will be judged for their works, and all those that did good will be in the resurrection of the just and so they will live in the new heavens and new earth but they will not be "sons and daughters of God by spirit" as those that are saved are. That is why the statement that Jesus Christ is the only way unto the Father is still true, because they are not made whole in Christ and thus are not children by spirit. But they will be in the resurrection of the just along with others who stand through the tribulations, and others from the past who were never saved because they preceded Christ. Yes, there will even be the resurrection of people who may have never believed but were good the best they knew -- that is how incredible God's mercy is. Doesn't He say over and over again that His mercy is from everlasting to everlasting, and many other great things?

    Why limit God by human pathos and standards. God is good always, all love and all light and He will do everything He can to give people multiple chances.

    Let me tell you, those who pass it up for the pure evil that they are after multiple chances will deserve the second death - after which there will never again be life. Those that earn the second death will truly deserve it.

  • jdbixii

    Given the institution of confession in the Catholic church and the emphasis that has been placed on penitence, the idea that "God is not willing that ANY should perish, but that ALL should come to repentence," may be lost on atheists (i.e., "The preaching of the cross is foolishness to them that are perishing, but to us who are being saved, it is the power of God.....unto salvation.") Everyone knows that human compassion is not limited to people who are believing Christians. There is, in human history since the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, the irony of the fact that, although he died to take away the sins of the world, sin still plagues the human race. There is also the paradox of election and reprobation which, despite, and because of, the foreknowledge of God, still requires a free-will choice on the part of the individual concerning believing in Christ and accepting him as savior or not. As a force for good in the world, the compassion demonstrated by the believing church throughout the last two millenia, whether or not attributions to it are made by governments, can not be denied. What other organized entity has been so consistently supportive of the value of human life and, through the teachings of Christianity regarding "whatsoever you do to one of the least of these, my brethren, you do unto me," as Jesus said? If we are not all created in the "image of God," then we don't know what the image of God is. The problem of the sin nature and recurrent evil remains.

  • Suzanne

    A basic tenet of the Catholic Faith is the Dogma of infallibility of the Pope when speaking on Faith or Morals." What ever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven." Matt 18:18.This is also true of the council of Bishops when working in concert with the Pope." He who hears you hears me". Luke 10:16 It preserves the Pope from the possibility of error. This does not mean that a Pope is without the possibility of sin he is only a man guided by the hand of God in the matter of Faith or Morals.

    • AR

      Wrong! Please look it up it's Ex Cathedra, (from the chair). It has to be invoked and has only happened twice in 2 thousand years. The Pope is not infallible just because he is Pope. Antonius is right. The article writer apparently dislikes the Pope and perhaps even the catholic church. Pope Francis was calling people, saint and sinner alike (my words) to do good. He was giving a homily (sermon) at mass, no rewriting theology.

  • Antoninus

    Just a sensationalist headline to get people to read a weakly supported argument.

    • Rigoberto Vega

      Followed by a long list of Protestant Evangelical "Bible Christians" most of whom demonstrate a poor literacy and theological reading of the Bible.

      God help us!

      • Mark Desade

        Yeah, who do those Christians who follow the Bible think they are? Christians? I had to laugh over your ignorance. I know; I grew up Catholic until I turned my life over to Christ, and not the Pope. Sorry, but "Bible Christians" are more accurate. The rest of you are lost, worshipping a man and not Christ. Follow what the (non-Catholic) Bible says, not what your Catholic church says to be saved. Nobody can save you, not even the Pope or Mary, only Christ.

      • $6286490

        no,God help you, what seminary did you get your degree?

      • $23154113

        Lol, whaaat!? LOl c'mon verga be real.

  • RonWillison

    As I have stated many times in these comment boxes. ALL of the Holy Books have been so corrupted over time that NOBODY can say that their GOD is the ONE true GOD. The Popes statement is just another of what I call the "revised on the fly, constantly updated playbooks now used by men for a variety of purposes. Some of which have nothing to do with any kind of God I would be comfortable praying to.

    • anewpher

      Ron - you are mistaken. The Bible is the best and most documented book in History. Remember the Dead Sea scrolls - they are one of the best proofs that the Bible has NOT changed. The Dead Sea scrolls if you didn't know where found in the middle of the 20th century (I think 1920-1940) I forget the exact year. And Science has dated them to be from a time within around 50 years of Christ. I think it was from 50 years before - but I could be wrong and it could be 50 years after Christ. But either way these scrolls were lost for around 2000 years. And these scrolls were the same as the Bible today. Just to be clear - the scrolls contained a good portion of the Bible but not the whole Bible. But when compared to the parts of the modern Bible they did contain - they were found to have no differences! But there is SOOO much more on the subject that I can't go into - but if you really wanted to know you could easily find. As a starter - read Lee Strobol's book "The Case for Christ"

      • RonWillison

        anewpher. That all sounds good on paper. The problem I have is. A handful of MEN, Human Beings, that walk upon the earth. Got together and made decisions about what would or would not be included in the bible.

        • rosscoo

          Ron, I have chosen to "follow" you here on Disqus because I like your comments. I didn't read this article, but I get notices anytime you post a comment and thought I'd throw something at you - food for thought.

          I totally respect your belief that "a handful of men, human beings that walked upon the earth got together and made decisions about what would or would not be included in the Bible."

          Here's my thought... what separates Christians like me from non-believers like you is Faith. Christians believe those human beings were divined by God to write those words. Christians don't believe they just sat down and did it on their own like writing a novel or something. I choose to believe that just as you do not. It gives me immense comfort.

          In ending, I like this Abraham Lincoln quote: "“I can see how it might be possible for a man to look down upon the earth and be an atheist, but I cannot conceive how a man could look up into the heavens and say there is no God.”

          Peace, brother.

        • RonWillison

          rosscoo. I have never said that I don't believe in God. I know there is a God. While yes all the Holy Books claim to have been dictated by God. In my case I have done a lot of historical research and have concluded that It was men that made the decision to leave out books like Enoch etc. I've also done a little traveling like for instance. My daughter and I went to Cambodia a couple of years back and toured the Angkor Wat Parks and temple system. The first thing one notices is the damage intentionally done by the use of machine guns. Same in Viet nam. Then you look at Egypt and the rest of the middle east as a whole and a very disturbing and picture forms. The fact is. To this day. Somebody is going to great lengths to destroy the past. Especially where religion is concerned. As I said before. looking at the organised churches and the past behaviours of all of them all. i can trust none of them. roscoo. I believe that human beings come into this world with a built in knowledge of what is right, and what is not. I also believe that statements like "Do not eat from the tree of knowledge, good and evil and or life are meant to confound and confuse. When you think about it. What was the purpose for the "Don't eat the forbidden fruit?" If you say it was a test. I would ask why would God be so needy of insecure? I could see and understand anyone or thing with cognitive thought abilities wanting respect, love, nurturing, compassion and empathy etc. I could understand the creator saying. Oh by the way. Don't eat Poison oak or some other toxic plant because it could kill you. But to just put a kid in a candy store and say no is not my idea of what a god worth deifying would do. And that leaves only one other source for such nonsense. Men with agenda's. Check this out. it' is a little fiction of sorts that started out as a reply to someone in a box like this one. Everyone was calling everybody else's belief structures wrong and the thread was just selling HATE. I decided to try and bring some sanity to things and 12 or so hours later, what started out as a short reply turned into "HAJI THE SUICIDE BOMBER HAS A SIT DOWN CHAT WITH GOD" I have had some suggest I should rewrite it as a play. wouldn't have a clue how to do that. I've uploaded it to my Google Drive. Its a Windows Wordpad RTF file. No Virus or malware or ads included. Just click and download and click. Unless you use Chrome and Have Google Doc's plugin. You con view it where its at. Just copy and past into your browser.
          https://drive.google.com/?tab=wo&authuser=0#folders/0Bz6JiQexZuGDdll0M0VFaF9ZaTQ

    • $6286490

      Ron, you are using that as an excuse not to pray,attend church, volunteer in your community, read the Bible, to do anything. It's called a "cop out". Challenge yourself, attend a Bible based church. If you aren't married, find a church that has a singles ministry.That's how I met my wife

      • RonWillison

        I don't know if I can post a link here. Going to try Kenan. You know nothing about me. What I do or otherwise. Awhile back I was reading comments under an article. The comments were all so hate filled that I decided to try and inject some humanity into the mix. Was around 7 pm. When I looked up. It was 10 am the next day. The link below will take you to the document I created. Keep in mind it is just a play of sorts and just a little peek at potentials and possibility's. No bugs or spam. In fact not even Ads. Get back to me. After reading. Cop out indeed.

        https://drive.google.com/?tab=wo&authuser=0#folders/0Bz6JiQexZuGDdll0M0VFaF9ZaTQ

      • RonWillison

        Almost forgot. Its a windows wordpad rtf file. Just choose download unless you have Google Doc's installed. Peace to all

    • Saved1973

      I suggest you choose another topic, since obviously you're clueless when it comes to religion.

    • RonWillison

      Hmm. A little judgemental are we?

  • anewpher

    I can't believe that the Pope doesn't know the Bible better then that! Wow! He is suppose to be the leader of the Catholic church and doesn't know that Faith and Faith alone in Christ leads to Salvation. This Pope should cancel all his public appearences and devote time to reading the Holy Word - the Bible (in case he didn't know what I was talking about).
    This is a Very Sad day for Christianity..... The leading "Christian" in the whole world (as most of the secular world would view him) - the Pope - not knowing the teachings of the Bible.....

    • Saved1973

      I agree with you, consider also all the other anti-Biblical/anti-Christian things that the "Catholic" church does (with the Popes blessings), for starters, as Mark Desade mentioned,
      In Matt. 23:9 God (The Son) said "call no man father", & what does every single priest say to his parishioners? "Call me "father" so & so.

      Ha, what a crock!

      I believe that they KNOW the Bible, that they all study it in their seminaries & that means it'll be even WORSE for them:

      The Lord said in Luke 12:47 "And that servant, which knew his lord's will,
      and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten
      with many stripes".

      >>

  • shearwater

    One cannot know the definition of "good" without knowledge and possession of the spirit of wisdom. Forf the Christian that wisdom comes from the Holy Spirit. It seems that the Pope denies a basic tenet of Christianity that it is not enough to "do good." He seems to be biblically illiterate. From those words I would define this pope as a universalist. If atheists and people who practice sinning will meet on the other side in heaven, this contradicts what the Bible teaches. Jesus taught that many will want to enter heaven, referring to all the "good works" they had done and will be denied. So lets be Bible believing Christians and not simply trusting our leaders who are off the mark and fall into the category of false teachers.

  • Lisa

    Are y'all interpreting "...But do good: we will meet one another there.” to mean that anyone who does good will go to heaven? I think he's saying that we -- Christians and atheists -- can all agree that we should do good things. We can have a meeting of the minds on that, not 'we'll meet in heaven.'

    • Saved1973

      If that's what he meant, then why didn't he come out & say it, instead of all the mumbo jumbo?

      • Lisa

        English is not his first language so he just didn't express himself the same way as a native speaker would.

  • Cozycalico

    Wow! What a misinterpretation of the Pope’s words. The below
    was the gospel that day.

    Gospel
    Mk 9:38-40

    John said to Jesus,

    “Teacher, we saw someone driving out demons in your name,

    and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow us.”

    Jesus replied, “Do not prevent him.

    There is no one who performs a mighty deed in my name

    who can at the same time speak ill of me.

    For whoever is not against us is for us.”

    • Saved1973

      Really? What evidence can you present to verify that the Pope said that, & not what was quoted in the article above?

  • JBQ21

    The bottom line is that Francis is a Jesuit. That is the core of his being. I am apprehesive for what that means. Francis could be one of three saints. It could be Assisi. It could be de Sales. It could be Loyola. The jury is still out on Francis. Malachi Martin sounded the alarm in his writings. He too was a Jesuit and an advisor at Vatican II. He saw the drift of the Church and jumped ship. Without a doubt, the Church has turned from crucifixion to resurrection in the form of a world government. That is exactly just why T Dolan had "tea and crumpets" with Joe Biden in the St. Patrick Rectory on Palm Sunday just after giving him Communion. There are strong suspicions that the Catholic Church has made a secret deal with the Obama Administration to form a world socialist government and to destroy Protestantism and capitalism in one fell swoop. The problem is that abortion cannot be a bargaining chip in the quest for political correctness. Cardinal Raymond Burke was the archbishop of St. Louis and a strong proponent of the denial of Communion to Catholic politicians who support abortion. I have emails from the Chancery which verify that he was overthrown in league with the Obama Administration just before the 2008 election with a cabal led by Cardinal Justin Rigali who had just been transferred from St. Louis after being sent by the Vatican. He had left his sister, Sister Charlotte Rigali, behind as a spy. Before a judgment can be made, the incident involving Cardinal Raymond Burke must be analyzed. The large numbers of gays in the hierarchy and among nuns is a matter of grave concern. Socialism is not Christianity. Redistribution of wealth and the destruction of capitalism is a pipe dream.

    • patriotusa2

      Father Malachi Martin was one of my favorite priests. I've read his books, listened to his tapes, and respected the man immensely. You're right - rather than go along with many things he no longer approved of, he had asked to be laicized at which point he started writing his books and promoting his tapes. God rest his soul.

    • Brendan Smith

      Francis said on his coronation day that he chose the name after his favorite Saint, Francis of Assisi.

      • Saved1973

        That's another one of the "Catholic" churches heresies; praying to & worshipping people they have cannonized as "saints".
        Every saved person is a saint, try reading a real Bible.

    • John Hart

      Valid points, the leaders of collectives are subject to corruption. I think Obama's betrayal of the Church on health care is the wake up call that will transform it. Hopefully I'm right because if the Church falls, John's revelation will no longer be a warning but end sign.

  • http://www.facebook.com/esther.egan.75 Esther Egan

    Matthew 7 says there will be many before the throne of God declaring they are Christians and He will say to them depart from me I never knew you. The way to Heaven is narrow and few that find that path. The path to destruction is wide and many are there on that path.

  • darlingrats

    Well,there's reasons as to why i'm not catholic or episcopal.

  • Mark Desade

    Matthew 23:9 ""Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven."

    Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God"

    Isaiah 64:6 "For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment (in the original Hebrew "menstrual rag" instead of filthy garment); And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

    Romans 3:10-31 10 "as it is written, THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;

    11THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
    THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;

    12ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
    THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
    THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.”

    13“THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE,
    WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING,”
    “THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS”;

    14“WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS”;

    15“THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD,

    16DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS,

    17AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN.”

    18“THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES.”

    19Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;20because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

    21But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,22even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,24being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;25whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;26for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

    27Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.

    31Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

  • William Bish

    I disagree with your analysis of the Pope's statement. You take his words, add your own analysis of those words plus your own bias (it shows) then throw in some scriptural support and give your predetermined position. The Pope did not say that atheists would automatically go to Heaven. He just didn't condemn them to Hell. The Catholic Church has, for two millennia, stood on the principle that faith and works are necessary to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. All the Pope said was that atheists can be good people and do good works, too, and we should not stop them from doing so. We should welcome their good works for that provides a bridge for them to look across the river at faith. Pope Francis has already established that he intends to put the Church into an outreach mode and outreach to atheists, especially it they are already doing good things, would be a natural result for Christ did not come for the saved but for the sinners. You will note that in objecting to your argument I have not cited one Biblical passage. Such citations give the only illusion of truth yet taken out of context can be used to support any given position. The truth must be taken as a whole and we cannot excise truth as with a scalpel. The Pope, taking the entire teachings of Christ as well as the Old Testament, merely opened the door to those who lack faith. If they do good works, so be it, but we should not condemn them--that is not our duty and, indeed, we are told not to--and should by our living example of faith place the truth before them for them to accept. If they do not accept God's love they may not enter the Kingdom of Heaven, that is clear. But as a hypothetical, consider this: An atheist who has done good works his entire life and apart from his lack of faith, is sinless, falls ill with a deadly disease that places him in a coma and paralyzed yet he is still mentally alert. He knows he is to die and because he saw that living example of faith in those who are religious who accepted his good works with love and happiness, realizes that he was wrong in his atheism and silently repents asking forgiveness before he dies. You, I, his family and friends will never know of this change of heart but God will. I take the position that in God's infinite and unquestioning love God would accept that repentance and the man would enter the Gates of Heaven. All Pope Francis was saying was that no one should be excluded as long as they are living. God bless. :)

    • John Hart

      Well said

  • Mark Desade

    I grew up Catholic, I know the fallacies of the church, like saying you need to do all the sacraments in order to enter Heaven or praying to Mary as co-redeemer (no where in the Bible does it say that). Problem is the Catholic Bible is a poor, manipulated translation of the original Greek (New Testament) and Hebrew (Old Testament). In fact, the Catholic Church did its best to prevent the spread of the Word when Guttenberg printed the first Bible. I suggest you look up Jesuit history on that (easy to do online). They don't want anyone reading the Bible for themselves, they want you to take their "word" for it, even though we know the Word doesn't require church membership or priests to tell us what it means. Here's the one that always got me; if the Pope is infallible (again, a non-Biblical belief since every person falls short of the Glory of God), how can the person have been fallible before he became Pope, then suddenly infallible? If Pope Ratzinger was fallible before he became Pope, then infallible while Pope, does this mean he's now fallible because he's no longer Pope? (due to his resignation).

    • Brendan Smith

      The term you are looking for is not co-redeemer, it's co-redemtrix. And the prefex "co" is not used as Also, but from the Latin meaning "With" as in Mary the Mother of God, traveled on the path to redemption with her son.

      • doublenickel

        I'll apologize for Mark's not knowing Latin. The "-trix" ending is a female one...therefore, a "redemtrix" (redemptrix?) is a female redeemer. Mark stands corrected. And even if the "co-" means "with", as we all knew anyway, it's still damnable heresy.

    • Rigoberto Vega

      Mark, every modern Catholic approved translation of the Bible is derived from the same scholarship as any protestant Bible such as the NIV, NKJV, and Revised Standard. In fact, the NAB Catholic Bible is comprable to the NIV and the Catholic RSV is only different in that it includes the Deutero-Canonical books.

      There were thousands of correctly translated Catholic Bibles and virtually every major language in Europe before the Guttenburg Press. The Catholic Church viewed the Bible translations to be of such important and potential danger if the process wasn't monitored carefully.

      Fallibility has nothing to do with sinfulness. Is 1 and 2 Peter innerant Scripture? Was Peter a sinner and fallen short of the glory of God? You may not understand this analogy because like a lot of anti-Catholics and ex-Catholics you demonstrate a gross misunderstanding of what you are rejecting.

      The Protestant Black Legends you refer to are not backed by any scholarly historical writings. Plenty of Catholics read the Bible for themselves. In fact, at every prayer meeting I attend we read Scripture. Furthermore, based on the comments here, I read the Scriptures with much more breadth and depth with my Catholic brethren than do some "Bible Christians."

  • http://www.facebook.com/howard.grant.90 Howard Grant

    We are all sinner and fall far short! The only way we can get to heaven is through the grave of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

    • Saved1973

      Do you mean the "grace" of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ?

  • CajunPatriot

    I would want some clarification on what Pope Frances meant by "all of us." All us have fallen short of the glory of God. All of us come as sinners to the throne room of grace. All of us were enemies of God and His Son. All of us need a Savior, need a Healer, need a Miracle Worker and that need is more than satisfied in Jesus Christ.

    I am not sure Pope Francis is ready to put aside the necessity of the redemptive work of Christ, or at least I hope not. That would mean no Popes, Jesuits, Bendectines, or any other orders have learned anything since that monk nailed 95 Theses the door of the church at Wittenberg. I would truly want to hear more from Francis before I concluded that he was indicating a departure from true doctrine. The big key is what is done with Jesus. Is He embraced, is He reverenced, is He honored, is He submitted to and obeyed, is He surrendered to as Lord and Savior? Anything short of that, how can we make our "calling and election sure?"

  • Brendan Smith

    I think my father responded to this article better than I can so, I'll just quote him.

    "By now you may have heard the outrage percolating over Pope Francis holding out hope for the conversion and salvation of atheists. It hasn't taken long for those who nurture grievances born in the trenches of misguided indignation to parade their unbrage. Herein is the alternative point of view I've already shared with several people who are very troubled by the screaming headlines.

    Misunderstanding reigns supreme. The thrust of our Holy Father's comments are obvious to those with eyes to see and ears to hear. On behalf of Jesus Christ he merely opened the door to sinners with the assurance that Christ will turn away no one whose heart is sincere, even if sincerely wrong. There is such a thing as invincible ignorance. There is also the plain fact that faith is a gift from God. Some have it. Many don't. Why? That's only for God to know. As for us? We are supposed to trust Him. All men are God's children and Christ died to save all men. A man who does not have faith but is striving to be good by the standards of the Natural Law, even if he fails to understand God as we know God, still has a chance at salvation, as do we all. When Christ warns us not to judge our neighbor it is precisely this aspect of judgment that He is addressing, and He did so vigorously because the Pharisees smugly believed only they would be saved. Are we now to indulge that same smugness? The Holy Father is the Vicar of Christ on earth and the choice of the Holy Spirit. I suggest we listen to him with open ears but mostly with an open heart."

    • Mark Desade

      Matthew 23:9 ""Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven." It's true that Jesus died to save all men. But, only those who believe on Him are saved, not all men. That's what the Bible says.

      • Brendan Smith

        The Bible was also written by men. Inspired by the Holy Spirit, yes. But still written by men and men are fallible and prone to mistakes. Besides, at the end, the relationship between a Soul and God is known to no one but that Soul and God. Don't be so quick to judge others. That's not for you to do. That responsibility lies solely with the Almighty. The Bible also says Judge not, lest ye be judged yourself.

        • Saved1973

          Really? Now you're going to claim that the Bible contains mistakes? You're just proving yourself to be more ignorant & twisted with every post.
          You claim to be a Christian, but don't believe the Bible? Then what do you claim as the basis for your Christianity, when every true statement about Christ originated in the Bible?

          Oh, I get it, you don't really care about worshipping the Father "in spirit and truth" as the Lord said in John 4:23, you're just trying to "circle the wagons" around your Pope after his ludricous statement, and further obfuscate the plain truths that God gave us in his "Love Letter" (The Bible).

        • Saved1973

          P.S. We're not "judging" others when we point out something that God has already judged to be sinful, or as in the case of John 14:6, where the Lord Jesus said "no man cometh unto the Father, but by me".

        • Brendan Smith

          So, you're presuming to know the mind of God. That is the absolute ultimate in hubris. No matter what we believe, NONE of us can presume to know the mind of God.

        • scs2000

          You are need of desperate help...You can either believe the words of Jesus or you can twist them to suit yourself, which is exactly what you've done in each of the numerous messages you posted---You would think seeing all thumbs down might alert you to the fact that YOU are WRONG!

        • John Hart

          If you want to know who's really wrong, look in the mirror!

        • Saved1973

          I'm not sure what you mean by "to know the mind of God", but it sounds like another mantra drilled into you by your church leaders so that you believe that you need to rely on them instead of what God gave us in His Bible.

          What I AM stating re "knowing the mind of God" is that we CAN know & understand much, if not most of what God has revealed to us in His Love letter, and God said in it that no man gets to Heaven except by Jesus, plain & simple. If you don't believe me, then read it for yourself in John 14:6.

          Very many things in Scripture are plain and simple so that anyone that can read them, can understand them, and get saved. Reminds me of the adage; "The main things are the plain things and the plain things are the main things".

          Other things are the subject of debate, interpretation etc. & we may never know all the answers until we, who are His children, meet Him face to face.
          Oh & don't tell me that you believe the Bible unless you believe ALL the Bible.

        • John Hart

          That is exactly what many of the posters are unconsciously doing. They think they know but they don't. It is ignorance by the self righteous that begets evil. The growing decadence in society is caused by 'the stoning of sinners caught' by bible thumpers preaching hate. I believe many would demand Christ be condemned if he came back preaching love for all men.

        • John Hart

          Jesus is the Person of Love in the Trinity. Without Love, you have nothing. Without Faith, there can be no love. That is why works without faith won't get you into heaven but faith without works is an empty promise!

        • Brendan Smith

          I never said I don't believe in the Bible. I said I believe in the fallibility of men as well. So, you believe the earth is only 6,000 years old and that the world is created in 7 days. Really? Interesting.

        • scs2000

          The bible never says God created the earth 6k years ago, I'd suggest you go read it again because you are off on so many points it's scary!

        • John Hart

          The point is for years many thought that's what the Bible said. God's message is always infallible, man's transcription and interpretation is not. Scripture was written with error correction, that's where the number of the beast comes from. The truth of the Bible is in the whole, not in bits and pieces pasted together to mean something else, like many un-supervised pastors like to do.

        • Saved1973

          Yes, if you add up the time line it comes out to between 6-10K yrs old, & there's a lot of scientific evidence to back up those figures, but I'm not going to get into the whole creation/evolution thing here, that's not the topic being discussed.

        • Saved1973

          Um, I'm not sure that believing "in the Bible" & believing the Bible are the same thing.
          Would you like to clarify that?

        • John Hart

          History is littered with false interpretations of scripture. Christ anticipated this and always spoke in parables to help preserve his message. Christ taught we should love God, self and others and work to correct our own faults not focus on the faults of others. The Catholic Church despite all it's faults, teaches Christ's message better than most.

        • John Hart

          Calling some one ignorant, doesn't make a good argument, in fact it indicates one hasn't a clue how to respond so they launch an ad hominem attack.

        • John Hart

          You're on track. The tradition of the Church and the translation of the Bible into Latin both work to maintain God's messages to mankind recorded in the past.

      • John Hart

        Many are called but few choose to follow the example of the Lord of Love. Died on the Cross to show us the way. Pick up the cross and follow me doesn't mean you don't have to do anything. You're preaching the religion of laziness that got us into the mess we are in. All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

    • john

      All men are not God's children. They are all God's creation. You become a child of God when you accept Christ as you Lord and Savior. When you accept his once for all sacrifice. He died once on the cross and that is sufficient. You can't get into heaven because of works because that means Christ's atoning work on the cross was not sufficient.

      Works might be an indicator of your faith but then again scripture says even heathen and non believers do good. If works are necessary for entrance into God's Glory then Christ's sacrifice on the cross was in vain and was insufficient. Then again that is what Catholicism teaches.

      Catholicism and the Papacy are so far from Christianity it is nothing but heresy. Paganism at its finest. The Pope is Satan in the flesh. He is the anti-Christ

      • John Hart

        A cleverly spun lie by the Deceiver to divide and conquer you spread.

    • Metasham Crystilic

      'The Holy Father is the Vicar of Christ on earth and the choice of the Holy Spirit'

      He is a jesuit devil.

      • scs2000

        Indeed! The black pope, the Jesuit!

        • John Hart

          More script from the Letters.

      • John Hart

        Right out of Screwtape!

    • scs2000

      Francis is the False Prophet...He has confirmed it now several times..His call for a one world religion and now him basically saying, eh, forget Jesus, just do a few good things and you go to heaven...

      BS!

      Ephesians 2:8-9 which states:

      “For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”

      • John Hart

        You're either making things up or very ignorant. The Pope prays to the same God as you and follows God's will as best as he can.

    • doublenickel

      With all due respect to your father, he doesn't understand something very crucial: that God saves whom He wills. To those whom He has chosen (it's called the doctrine of election), he gives the gift of faith. Here's the conundrum (from the Bible, not my head):
      1--Faith is a gift of God (Eph. 2:8)

      2--Faith is necessary for salvation. (Heb.11:6)
      3--No one does good anyway (!) (Rom. 3:12, quoting Ps.14:3)

      Now here's the deal: We don't know who has saving faith, nor do we know who will obtain it. So we continue on giving the Gospel to people. Changing people's minds and hearts is not our job, it's the Holy Spirit's.

      You might say, if the above is true, then God is really and truly in charge of the whole situation. To which I answer, right. This issue of God's sovereignty is very, very important. Read Rom.9 if you really want to encounter some concepts that are shocking to conventional wisdom. God is TOTALLY in control. But that doesn't let us off the hook--Paul makes that clear.

      • John Hart

        Things don't work the way you think. That's the reason for the paradox of your post.

        If everything's predestined, there is no free will and no reason or way to change people's Hearts and Minds.

        God is NOT totally in control of you. God is totally in control of Creation, of Reality, of your body, but not your mind. God creates within the same space God exists. Once you are created God can NOT un-create you. That is the dilemma of the evil mind that knows God and rejects him. The deceived will be cleansed if they have faith one who's embraced evil has an eternity of Hell in front of them.

        • doublenickel

          John, thanks for the thoughtful answer. One correction: I didn't say everything was predestined (although that might be inferred from what we know about God's omniscience, His foreknowledge, and His sovereignty--but that's a big topic). If I use the term "predestination" (which I didn't in the post you replied to) I would mean predestination in the limited sense of believers being "predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son" (Rom. 8:29 and also Eph. 1:5 and 11). This is plenty of predestination to boggle the mind anyway, no point in stretching it any further! Besides, I don't want to use a Biblical term like this in any more than its strictly prescribed (by the Bible itself) sense. I think that's the safest course.

          You mention the fact that the evil mind can reject God. One of the mysteries of the ages is that God has given Man the capacity to reject his Creator. This is really astonishing, in light of the fact that everything else in creation does His will implicitly, automatically, just by its very existence. I can only say that this has something to do with the fact that Man is created in the image of God. It's as though He were taking a calculated risk (from our point of view) in making creatures with free will because of the greater glory of having a being who freely chooses to worship his Maker.

          Thanks for the input.

  • Saved1973

    So much for the myth of the Pope being "the vicar of Christ".

    Throughout the centuries popes have not only contradicted the Word of God (The Bible), but contradicted other popes as well. Does that mean that God (Father, Son & Holy Spirit) were FOR something during one popes reign & AGAINST that same thing during another popes reign?

    Of course not. It just proves that the claim (Vicar of Christ) along with many other claims of the Roman Church are baloney, regardless of how many of the churches followers like Brendan Smith cling tenaciously to every word that their current pope preaches.

    I also am not trying to alienate Catholics, we need to stand with them against society's rush to embrace sexual perversion & the murder of unborn children.
    I used to be a "Catholic" myself until I read the Bible & learned that much of what I was taught by Catholic Priests & nuns while in school was contrary to what God commanded.

    Like the Apostle Peter (whom Catholics claim was their first Pope) said in Acts 5:28, "We ought to obey God, rather than men".

    • John Hart

      Some people aren't as smart as you and need help knowing what Love really means. The danger we are facing comes from within, is in every man, even you. Those who think they are saved because they say they are saved and do nothing good ARE NOT SAVED.

  • ramesaz

    I'm afraid that you are somewhat off base here. It depends on your definition of "saved". Although not generally shared by all Christian denominations, I believe there are two types of salvation (by definition). First there is the "unconditional salvation" which promises that all mankind will be saved by the Grace of Jesus Christ, except those who are the "Sons of Perdition". This salvation consists of the inseparable connection of the resurrected body and the spirit, never to be separated again. In this sense salvation is synonymous with immortality. There is also a "conditional or individual salvation" which comes by grace coupled with gospel obedience which is a salvation of righteousness. This kind of salvation follows faith, repentance, baptism, receipt of the Holy Ghost, and continued righteousness. The scriptures plainly teach that we are "heirs with Christ, and joint heirs with Christ" and that we can receive all that the Father has. This salvation is an earned one through obedience to the Gospel principles and keeping the covenants made with Christ. Both salvations require the Grace of Jesus Christ and only through Him can either be obtained. The "salvation of righteousness" represents the reward earned through your faith and your good works.

    • scs2000

      Your works do not matter...

      Ephesians 2:8-9 which states:

      “For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”

      • ramesaz

        genesis667. you are absolutely right. All salvation comes only through the grace of Jesus Christ. However, what happens after you are saved. Can you truly believe that everyone, no matter how they lived in this mortal existence, receives the same reward as those who have dedicated their lives to Jesus and "worked" diligently for Christ. Is God so unfair that everyone receives exactly the same existence. Scripture tells us that God has many mansions and he will prepare a place for us. Doesn't it make sense that some deserve a higher form of reward than others? Yes, it does. Those who have lived righteously all their lives will receive their reward based on works. Now that doesn't mean works saves them, but it does determine their place in the heavens.

        • John Hart

          And also, blessed are the peace makers, not those spreading dissent.

        • Saved1973

          Are you implying that we should believe everything we hear? Haven't you been implying that we should believe everything we hear from the Catholic church? God said in John 4:23 & 24 that we are to worship God "in spirit and in truth". I don't recall seeing what you said about "spreading dissent" anywhere in Scripture, can you give us a reference?

        • Tom Pardue Sr

          Not all who call out Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven. There have been and will always be false professions of faith. God's grace is not for all men. It is for the elect only.

        • Marty

          As a boy scout I helped an old woman get across a street to get a badge. I did it because I had to, yet there was a reward. As a child of God through faith in Jesus doing the same thing is done from a heart that loves without reward. Two good deeds. One that gets a reward and one that will NEVER go rewarded. We do good works because He who is good lives within us. Do not look to do good works for any reward. Do them because of who you have become.

    • Saved1973

      Some of what you just wrote appears questionable! Can you provide Scripture references please?
      I don't mean to offend you but, without references from God's word to back up your writings, they carry no more weight than a fairy tale about Jack and the Beanstalk.
      Anybody can say anything.
      God is the one who decides who is saved & how, because it's HIS Heaven, & HIS creation.

    • Mike Purdin

      straight is the gate and narrow the way that leadeth unto life, and be few that go there in, but broad is the way and wide is the gate that leads to destruction

  • Tom Pardue Sr

    In 1517 Martin Luther nailed 95 thesis on the church door at Wittenberg. Thus, began what is known as the Protestant Reformation. Of course most people know this. The point is that the romish ecclesiastical institution ceased to be regarded as a church many years ago. Who is surprised that the paip spews stupid heresies? He is the arch heretic. Romanism is another gospel and anathema. It is a gospel of works and grace. .

    • Brendan Smith

      Irony, most Roman Catholics know all about the Protestant Reformation. You see, we're actually taught history in school. Unlike the public school system in this country.

      • John Hart

        Catholics that go to Mass hear God's Word read every four years.

        The Catholic hierarchy has made a lot of errors but the Church teaches Christ's message loud and clear.

        • Tom Pardue Sr

          Christ's message is found in the Bible. It is that salvation is by grace alone. The pope is not teaching that in his homily. He is teaching salvation by works. This is false teaching and he is, as I said, the arch-heretic.

  • AlanCR

    Roman Catholicism has worked and spoken against God and His Son Jesus and His word for a very long period of time.

    • John Hart

      Nonsense! Satan's deception is meant to divide so it can conquer us. You spread it's lies without the slightest idea of what Catholic means or stands for. The Pope is no genius and surely not a saint but understands the danger we are facing won't be overcome without the help of ALL GOOD MEN. This religious bickering has got to end. Stop spreading lies about the Church!

      • Saved1973

        Lies about "the church", what arrogance! Why don't YOU stop spreading the lies taught by YOUR church, like the notion that works are necessary for salvation.

        The Lord Jesus Christ said as He gave up his life on the cross; "it is finished". God's Word records it in John 19:30.

        GOD said in Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and
        that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
        2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast".
        If you and your "Catholic" friends have a problem with that, then take it up with GOD.

  • Loren

    You might read a more complete explanation of the pope's remarks before getting too upset: http://m.ucanews.com/news/news/popes-comment-on-redemption-for-atheists-sparks-debate/68337.
    It certainly is true that Christ death and resurrection opens the way of salvation to all people.

  • Metasham Crystilic

    Catholicism is Satan's greatest masterpiece.

    • Susan

      Then why did Satan target it for the take down---starting with Judas? If it is not the One, True, Apostolic Church -why did Satan-- as Bella Dodd wrote --infiltrate the seminaries with Marxist homosexuals in the 30's and 40's. Why would Fr. Oko write his report on the Satanic infiltration of the Vatican? If it was already delivering Satanic lies---why "infiltrate" and try to "warp" the Church if it was already the masterpiece of Lies?

      Human Beings are not perfect and The Church is filled with human beings. THere will always be corruption, but the Catholic Canon stays the same.

      Marxism is Satanism and was always the greatest enemy of the Catholic Church, along with the Demonic Freemasonry/Skull and Bones, and other secret societies. No other Christian "church" has been as consistent for thousands of years and ridding the idea that 'Evil was Good' which was normal in all Western and Eastern societies----until Christianity became common in the West because of Catholicism---and eventually slavery/homosexuality/pederasty/child sacrifice/abortion ==all common in all societies became "Evil" under the theology that human beings can never be used as a "means to an end" (a commodity). Christian Ethics have led to superior cultures, the most middle class, and the only consistent Christian "church" has been the Catholic Church on all intrinsically evil actions, including contraception---which the other "Christian" Churches caved to Marxist ideology---where people can be used as a commodity for one's own selfish lust. All dehumanizing actions which is the slippery slope to abortions and killing people.

      • Saved1973

        LOL, how twisted. You're claiming that because some priests in the 40s & 50s were "Marxist homosexuals" & got caught, that this proves that your church is "The One, True, Apostolic Church"???
        What about all the homo priests & pedophiles in your church today, what does that prove?
        Oh, I get it, if something has a lot of evil in it, that proves that it's really good. : )That makes a lot of sense (not).

        Judging by your standards, that Satan "infiltrated" (entered into) your church because it was the best, than Judas Iscariot must have been the greatest apostle, because Scripture says that Satan entered him just before he went & betrayed the Lord to the Pharisees for 30 pieces of silver.

        Contraception is an "evil action"??? You actually believe that? I know that your church claims that, but where's the Scripture to back up it's claim?
        By the way, your church didn't start until a long time after Christs crucifiction, so Judas wasn't a part of your church.

    • John Hart

      All collectives are subject to corruption. It is not the bureaucracy Catholics belong to but the Body of Christ. The Church is there to teach and if you knew what it really taught you would be ashamed of your inane remark.

      • Saved1973

        I know what the "Catholic" Church teaches, or at least what it taught when I went to several of their schools up through 8th grade.

        Their teachings change frequently, & differ from place to place, that's more proof that they're not really God's church, nor do they speak for God as their Popes now claim. God doesn't change (Malachi 3:6, Heb 13:8).

        • John Hart

          When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I
          thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

          You've made the same error as many others, rejected the Church based on childish misinterpretation. The bible you read wouldn't exist but for the works of the Church. Just because the leaders of the church fall into sin doesn't mean the religion is wrong. In fact no religion is perfect, especially ones based on personal interpretation. Those who read the words in a book they
          don't know the history of and assume they are smarter than everyone else are fools.

          Jesus warned of bickering, you're ignoring the warning and attacking people who have given their lives in the service of the Lord. I don't think spreading lies one believes is a work of faith but a sign one's been tricked by the devil.

          Start working on the log in your eye if you want to be saved. Sin is an error and being saved is recognizing and working on our own faults, not pointing out the faults of others.

        • Saved1973

          Childish Interpretation, that's what you call taking God at his word without adding all your churches baloney to it?
          God said in Luke 18:17 "Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not
          receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein." , so if my quoting God is childish than so be it, I'm happy to be so.
          Fact is John, you're the one who's been doing all the interpreting, without giving a single reference to back up what you've stated.
          You had the nerve to call it hubris for me to think that I "know the mind of God" (which I never claimed to do), yet one of the most extreme examples of hubris that I've seen is you repeatedly calling your Papist ("Catholic") church "the church", as if it was the only church that exists, and "the one, true, apostolic church" I think It'd be difficult to be more arrogant or proud than that.
          I'll give you a free Bible lesson John, do you know what God hates? You can start by reading what He wrote in Proverbs 6 verse 16 "These six things doth the Lord hate: yea seven are abomination to him:"
          The very first one on the list is pride John, I suggest you read it for yourself. If you disagree with God, thats your problem.

  • scs2000

    Francis just revealed himself as the false prophet...

  • chosen4life

    Salvation is for all. Free will, take it or leave it. Salvation is "offered" for all people.

    • Mrs. James Clemons

      You are right in that it is offered but it has to be received, believed and acted upon in deeds after you believe you need to obey. This is where the good works come into action as God directed deeds not man's motives without God directing them.

      • Saved1973

        You're right Mrs Clemons, Scripture shows that after we're saved we need to do good works, starting with obeying all the commandments of God (not just the 10, as some believe), love God with all our heart, soul, mind, & strength, and our neighbor as ourself (Luke 10:27). Our salvation does not depend at all on our works lest any man (or woman) should boast. Eph 2:9.

        God's Word also says in Romans 12:1 "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service."

        Once we're saved this is our "reasonable service" in light of what He has done for us.

  • Piper Michael

    The Pope gets it... you evidently need to understand, that the Roman's wrote the Bible you so revere. Do you worship the Bible, or God? The Golden rule is what Jesus taught, everything else was modified to suit the Church of Rome when they wrote the Biblical narratives. They took old words and created a new religion by burning and forbidding all other works of knowledge, including the work of the Scribe of God, Enoch, and the Gnosis of Christ's teachings of the mysteries... these things that are called heresy, sorcery, witchcraft and idolatry. The knowledge of God was destroyed, and Rome committed the sin of the Ages by replacing it with the Mystery doctrines of Babylon.

    What has passed for 'christianity' is not what the Lord taught, which was to 'do good', to love thy neighbor as thyself. The Golden rule, Period. Yes, it would be better for you to love God, but the disciples and Paul, are the ones who added divided doctrines and divisive rules, and Rome codified and changed everything into a religion of 'MYSTERY', imposed and enforced by destroying The Heretics. Do you even know what the Heretics believed? They believed what The Christ originally taught, and that the rest, of the Churches, was BS. They were the men of knowledge, philosophy and science, and their books were burned along with them. The Catholic church is the Mother of Harlots that rides the Beast of the ten tribes, the governments, speaking blasphemies.

    Yet, you think the Pope preaches heresy, and is Anti Christ? Your churches are the Daughters of the Harlot, loving wealth, and preaching blasphemy and the Great Falling away has begun as the people see the hypocrisy of Christians. The Christian 'religion' was created as a Free Pass for Sinfulness! This is what the Pope is saying. The Truth of the Revelation is the Revealing of the Knowledge of God, that overcomes the MYSTERY of GOD, the Pope is attempting to bring everybody into One Religion of God, but it will be a fateful effort as the moooslims will take over. This is the pale Green horse. (Read your Greek and know the truth.) Yes, I read the Bible, but, I read it to understand hidden truth, as it aligns with the Gnosis. The Orthodox Mystery of Babylon and Rome, has had its time, and it has destroyed the world.

    Your churches are lost in the Fear sewn by preachers of darkness and hypocrisy, pretending to be angels of light. Your society is lost in the love of money and power, and the love of money is the root of all evil, as you destroy the Earth that sustains us by doing 'God's Work? Yet, you have the nerve to say that anything that you don't agree with is evil?, or 'New Age' and you preach fear of anything that is not in the Bible? The Bible was broken from the beginning , the doctrines of Paul and Jesus being the Sword of Division, the denominations being the result, as darkness divides you, and you are all too stupid to see that you have become the very thing you fear, hypocrites pretending to be the good guys.

    No, I am not Catholic, nor a fan of Popes, but in this case he aligns perfectly with the new revealing of the theory of the Unified Field of God revealed in The God Calculus and spiritual relativity, that; to Do Good is all there is when you have Empathy for all living things. In this there are many atheists who are better Christians, than Christians themselves. We 'Christians' are our own worst enemy so I was told by the Light to disavow protestantism as well, because we do not understand, that we are simply 'protesting' Catholics. The Time of Jacobs Trouble begins as the dark energy comes, madness will rule the world, and the madness of Christians and brothers will be as bad as any, it has already begun. See The Light of love thy neighbor, or be consumed by the darkness.

    A witness to the Light.

    pipermichael (.) wordpress (.) com

  • Brennan
  • posthuf

    Don't know about your bible, but mine has a clause in there about "judge not lest you be judged by the same measure."

    I don't know exactly what it means, but I used to be pretty hard on myself when I made dumb mistakes. A priest suggest God will judge me by the same measure I judge myself, and told me I should ease up.

    • Saved1973

      Sounds like that priest was full of baloney to me.

      1 Corinthians 11:31 says "For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be
      judged."

    • John Hart

      Judge not others.

      • Saved1973

        Says who John, & where? How about at least giving credit to the one who coined that phrase. Are you afraid to pick up a Bible & read through it? Don't know how to do a Bible search?

    • Saved1973

      posthuf,

      God's word implies that He doesn't chastise for mistakes, but for willful disobedience of His commandments.

      I don't mean to be cruel, but if you're not saved you're going to end up in Hell, regardless of how many or how few sins you commit (no one is sinless).

      To be saved: Believe (trust in) the sacrifice of the Lord on the cross as payment of the penalty for your past sins, & ask him to save you, as the thief on the cross did in Luke 23: 42&43 (chapter 23, verses 42 & 43). You are then a child of God (John 1:12)

      Regarding sins after being saved: 1 John 1:9 says "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness". That's talking about confessing to God (I Tim 2:5), not to some priest

      It's the duty of every saved person to live for Him, trying (with His help) to eliminate all sins from your life (Romans 12:1), pray & confess to the Father, in Jesus's name every day, & read your Bible every day (read the whole Bible over & over) to learn of Him & what He wants you to do, (thats why He gave us His Bible) & join a good Bible believing church to help you grow.

  • forgivenman

    Let's cut the crap. The Bible and Jesus are clear about salvation. You either believe he paid for your sins and what he taught or you don't. If you reject him you are destined for the lake of fire. Good works will not save you and are the fruit of those who believe. This teaching is evidence of a false prophet

    • John Hart

      Faith (belief) without works will not save! Works without faith will not save, you need both!

      • Saved1973

        Really John?? What about the person who trusts in the Lord Jesus as saviour in the nursing home then dies a couple weeks later, or someone who gets saved on their death bed?
        What about the thief on the cross who the Lord told in Luke 23: 42&43 that he (the thief) would be in Heaven with him (Jesus) that very day? What works could they or did they do?
        God's word says in ephesians 2: 8 & 9
        8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
        9 Not of works, lest any man should boast."
        This false claim that people must do "works" to get to Heaven (get saved) is like a club that the Catholic Church has held over the heads of people for centuries, since of course, the church officials were the ones who decided which, & how many works a person needed to do to get to Heaven (according to them).
        The "Catholic" church even had Kings around the World trembling with fear that the Pope would "Excommunicate" them for various things.
        That's also why the Popes murdered people (like Gutengberg) who wrote the Bible in a language the common people could understand, & even when one of their own priests (Luther) put it into the common language, the Cath. church put a "contract" out on him to be killed.
        Even today, the Catholic Church hates & discourages catholics from reading the Bible, because when people see that most of the stuff that the Cath church teaches is NOT what God said or desires they question and/or no longer submit to the authority of the Papist ("Catholic") Church. That's also why i'm no longer a "Catholic".

        • John Hart

          Really Saved??

          What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and
          one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but
          you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

          There is a saying hard cases make bad law. I'm sure God makes allowances for death bed conversions and the act of professing newly found faith is a work but you must know that, it appears your goal is to denigrate the religion of others.

          Your statement "the Catholic Church hates and discourages....." is a bold face lie. They read from the Bible at Mass and encourage parishioners to join Bible study groups. It's obvious you know very little about Religion or God's Law. Why not spend some time learning the positives of Catholicism rather than wasting your time running it down?

        • Saved1973

          First of all John, if you're going to quote Scripture, how about giving the reference so that others reading your posts can look it up for themselves & see if you're quoting it correctly.

          2nd, you've got ONE verse that SEEMS to imply that the person without works is not saved, or that works are necessary for salvation. Furthermore the one additional verse that states "faith without works is dead" also does NOT say that the person is not saved.

          Have you heard of "context" John, as in comparing Scripture to Scripture? That's a very good way to see if your interpretation of questionable verses like the ones you quoted is correct.

          Fact is John, I Cor 15:1&2 says that people are saved; by receiving the Gospel.

          Acts 15:11 saved "through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ.

          Acts 11:13 "-- Peter;" (14) Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved".

          Acts 2:21 "-whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved". Like the thief on the Cross in Luke 23: 42 & 43.

          Acts 16:31 "-Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved,"

          Eph 2:8 saved "through faith".
          The New Testament is FULL of verses that say basically the same as these, including a very well known verse; John 3:16 ---"that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life" (in other words-be saved).
          You like to quote "sayings" John? Here's one for you I learned from one of my teachers: "God puts verses in the Bible that appear to be contradictions, so that heretics may be made manifest".
          He was speaking of people like you John, using that one verse that you found to try to support the claims of you & your church that salvation is by works, which is CONTRARY to the plain, abuntant & obvious teachings of God.
          Got to go to prayer mtg. now, more later. We still have some "bones to pick over", you & I.

        • Saved1973

          Well John, I owe you & the other readers an apology. I should not have written the words "even today", because I haven't been to a "Catholic mass" in quite a while, & I know that they've made a lot of changes. Which, makes me wonder again; if the Cath. Church was "Gods Church", so all knowing, perfect & wonderful as it's always claimed to be, with the popes being "infallible ex cathedra" etc. then why all the changes? God hasn't changed.
          The rest of my post above was accurate, in that despite recent changes, The "Catholic" church, throughout history, has hated & discouraged, even to the point of putting to death, people who tried to give the common people the Bible in a language they could understand.
          These things are a matter of record, a matter of history, & can be easily found if research is done, even in your own church records.
          When I was a child the majority of the masses were given in Latin, which of course, nobody understood but the priest.
          By the way John, not long ago, I knew a "catholic" woman who went to a Bible study at her church & when I looked at her Study Bible, before every book, maybe every chapter, it had paragraphs & sometimes full pages of disclaimers about the Scripture to follow, stating things such as; it shouldn't be taken litterally, doesn't really mean what it appears to have said, certain parts of it weren't found in the "best" manuscripts etc. It was a bunch of wicked lies, contradicting what God had said, and it was disgusting.
          Finally, just because your priests quote a scripture or two here or there during the "mass" it doesn't mean much, or accomplish much, if anything for the cause of Christ, even you do that (quote a Scripture or two out of context). Regarding your suggestion, I already spent 9 years in Catholic school & longer in Catholic churches learning the "positives" about your Catholic Church.

  • disqus_qaQ56ruq0e

    You say that the Pope nullifies the redemptive work of Jesus, and yet you quote him as saying "The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ"

  • apf2

    Does "let them do good" equate to "they will be saved, too"? I did not hear or read the entire homily, but I would hesitate before taking this stretch as what he was saying. I think people can do good, even without knowing it. I don't think that will get them into heaven (but it may keep them out of hell.) I would like to see a full text transcript of the homily...

  • John Hart

    Screeminmeeme said

    Obviously you reject Scripture.

    You asked: ''Why would God give us a message two thousand years ago and never speak to anyone since?''

    1. He said everything He wanted us to know at the time about Himself,

    How do you know that?

    His Son,

    mankind's disease,

    Ignorance by the Self Righteous Begets Evil.

    and His cure for it.

    a, Do unto others that which you would have them do unto you.

    b. Don't ignore the log in your eye and focus on the splinter in others.

    c. Only those without sin can judge others. (hint, no one is without sin)

    2.
    He continues to speak to us individually thru nature which declare His
    glory....thru our God-given consciences...and thru His Word.

    a. And thru the tradition of the Church.
    b. And to the saints.
    c. And thru God's divine spirit which sustains the World
    d. And to anybody who will listen.

    3. You just aren't listening.

    In fact, it's you who aren't listening.

  • JonHaines

    I think you have made a mistake about Salvation vs Redemption...please read here: http://www.battleforthecoreoftheworld.com/2013/05/pope-francis-says-everyone-is-going-to.html

  • Twisk

    The author has a teeny weeny bit of a problem understanding the difference between the Catholic creed and the Protestant. Ahem... let's try again: in Catholicism, what saves are the ACTIONS, not the faith alone. You behave like a Christian, you go to Heaven. You behave badly, you do not, even if you believe (James, 2, 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble).

    Jas.2
    [20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

    In that sense, even an atheist who behaves well will be saved, whereas a hypocritical believer whose actions belie his "faith" will not (bad news for those believers who love their Saturday evening porn, pay a hooker from time to time, or indoctrinate and self-righteously punish their children on the basis of their religious prejudices).
    The Catholic creed says "don't ever think you are saved. Your salvation depends on YOUR DAILY ACTIONS based on faith, hope and charity". I'm not even a Catholic, but that's so easy to comprehend...

    • Mike Purdin

      jas2 . seems you don't understand, because their is a lot more involved as in repentance, but if you repent but don't serve the Lord, then you aren't His because he tells us to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked. but with out repentance works are null. Works keep no one saved, those how are saved do works because they are saved, by faith in Jesus. So the catholic is wrong. as you said actions are based on faith in Christ, hope because of Christ, and charity because of Christ.. If you don't have Christ you don't have salvation.

  • RoryT

    It is well established what the Catholic Church believes it takes to gain salvation. Look up the official Catechism for answers. It looks like the Pope was simply saying if an "outsider" is also doing charity let him continue. But, I'd have to see the Bible verses quoted that day, in Mass, to attempt any further insight. But, rest assured. The Catholic Church is based on Jesus Christ's redemptive power. Otherwise, we Catholics would still be Jews waiting for the promised Messiah.

  • Sienna

    Someone should ask the Pope point blank as to what he actually meant. There is no written teaching that atheists can go to Heaven, but one cannot judge whether or not there will be complete repentance at the end of one's life perhaps through grace earned by good works. Can anyone really say definitively that God would not pour mercy out on a person who has spent his whole life doing good works?

    But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your
    faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. James 2:18

    So you see, faith by itself isn't enough. Unless it produces good deeds, it is dead and useless James 2:17

    For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead. James 2:26

    • colnzgprnts

      There is an age-old theory that we have but one soul to save; our own! We need to live a life that is conducive to saving our precious soul. We should never judge another person or try to discern if he/she is leading an existence that will take them to heaven - that is not to say that we should not openly share our beliefs with them.

      In our own life we need to have faith in Jesus Christ and we need to keep in mind that it is our faith that will lead to salvation, but we should also keep in mind that if we are truly believers it follows that we will do good works because our 'good works' are the result of our faith and the 'believer' who does no good works will be called a 'phony' - not a title to wear when coming face-to-face with one's maker!.

      Is anyone truly a non-believer if he/she does good works - I think not, but only by my own reasoning. Many who profess to be non-believers have been touched by the holy spirit. I like to think that God is generous and forgiving and those who profess to be non-believers will benefit from God's abundant generosity if they have truly loved their neighbors. Having said that, I would not want to walk in the shoes of he who boasts of denying God!!

  • Mike Purdin

    Sienna, read your bible, salvation comes thru repentance and faith in Jesus Christ, works , can never save, but if you are saved you will have works is what James is saying. God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Grace comes from faith, and that faith is faith in Jesus Christ and God. ,Grace doesn't come by works. Revelations says Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus Christ REv. 14:12

  • Mike Purdin

    no one can earn salvation by works. period Christians do good works not to be saved and not to stay saved, but because they are saved