Too Many Christians are Socialists

A recent poll conducted among 1500 adults confirms what we have long suspected: even Evangelical Christians support statism. The polling group — Public Religion Research Institute — determined that social issues, like abortion, are proving to be less important to Evangelical voters when compared with economic issues like unemployment. Apparently the economy trumps infanticide even among those who have been historically pro-life.

This shouldn’t come as too great of a surprise to any readers of this site. The allure of statist control is a familiar refrain trumpeted by the mainstream media. It was only a matter of time before conservative Evangelicals should begin to believe the lies. What should come as a surprise though, is that Democrats see this as an opportunity to pull voters their way for 2012.

While most Christians will (and should) voice support for economic aid to those hurt by the downturn in the economy, it is disheartening to see that some apparently believe the federal government should be the mechanism for this aid. This self-inflicted view that the government is the ultimate solution will only exacerbate the problems. When Americans turn to the government for help they can be assured that help will come packaged with red tape.

What is particularly disturbing about this poll is that the Evangelical churches in America are supposed to be the very ones who understand where and how financial hope should be distributed. Far from being an anonymous government check in the mailbox, real financial help comes in the form of a recognized face or faces at the front door, ready and willing to strive and help the individual in need. The apostle made it clear: “The one who doesn’t work, doesn’t eat” (2 Thess. 3:10).

Paul also gave the admonition to “do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith” (Gal. 6:10). Christians should be relying on fellow Christians, not federal bureaucrats, to come to their aid in time of need.

As a deacon at my own church, I can assure you that this very thing happens from time to time. Members of the church occasionally come to us, seeking financial help during difficult periods. Sadly though, many of these same people only think to come to us when it is entirely too late: the shelves have been bare for weeks, the car has been repossessed, and the house is already in foreclosure. We have a fairly steady supply of funds coming in to the church for these “times of benevolence,” but most members only use it as a “last resort.”

They tend to believe that coming to the deacons and elders for help is the ultimate form of humiliation and destitution, when, in reality, it should be their “first resort.” I know for a fact that many Evangelical churches are actually looking for opportunities to give away money and food because the members of the church are too proud to take a “handout.” This is not only a tragedy; it is a waste of time and resources. It is, in actuality, poor stewardship.

Evangelical Christians should be the ones leading the charge into the economic mess of America. Although few Evangelicals actually tithe 10 percent to their local church, there is often plenty of money residing in the benevolence coffers because even Evangelicals look to the government rather than the church when the bankbook and the pantry become thin.

They have willingly handed the church’s God-ordained role as the guardian of the poor and widows and orphans over to the federal government, all the while complaining that the government is involved in too many things that it ought not be. Hello pot, meet kettle. It is this sort of hypocrisy that the Democrats are counting on to be able to skim a significant portion off the conservative Evangelical vote next year. They really don’t even care if you lie about how you voted after the fact. They don’t need your allegiance, just your vote.


About Bonasera
An outsider to the family. He trusted in government until it failed him, then he appealed to the Godfather. Bonasera is indebted to the Godfather for providing justice when the state only turned a blind eye. An undertaker by trade, Bonasera spends his days preparing the dead for the life to come (John 5:24-25).
  • Supertad108

    "poor stewardship" .. you hit the nail on the head.

    Do itching ears or apostate church ring a bell? The "evangelical" voting block, imho, are simply being led by that "false" light. Much easier to confuse with half-truths when your focus is being taken off God and placed onto YOUrself.

    • Kalev

      Yep, itching ears and apostate church, such a shame, like kicking God in the crotch.

    • T Lady

      Yes, indeed. When you refuse to put God's principles of finance into practice you can definitely find yourself in a serious bind...and the Government is the LAST place any Christian should go. The 'Help' of the government is like a shackle, ball, and chain. You become a prisoner of the State. God's Word sets you free.

      • samekindunblind

        What are God's principles of finance?

    • Handyman

      The Government is not in the business of charity , and never could be, because it (charity is a local thing)!! Charity belongs to the Church!!!!!!!

  • Pokey

    Ihe term Christian is used very loosely here. All that sit in pews aren't Christian and are part of the socialist movement. You can tell which is which by their actions and Yes by their vote. A person that truly believes in The Creator could never vote democrat due to their agenda. Those that would argue differently do profess to a god but it is the one that now rules on this earth.

    • daves

      I disagree with this article. Some problems are just too big to be handled by anyone except the Government.

      I recently read about a league of Churches that feels the same way. They are almost broke because so many people need help and these people will truly suffer if we as a society just ignore them.

      It is certainly not UN-Christian to want to use the Government as a large collection pool to help the needy.

  • stevor

    I'd have to see the questions used to make this determination. Maybe they were slanted, for the purpose of then being able to draw the conclusion that they meant to conclude.
    I'm a Christian and though I believe we should help others, which might seem socialistic, I'm not for helping everybody by taking away money from the industrious to level the "field" so the lazy get to continue being lazy.

  • EdinNola

    Communism (Progressivism, Socialism, Liberalism - same thing) is truly an ecumenical movement. It welcomes all religions equally - athiests too, and they will tell anyone exactly what to think and how to act. So long as you are a good little Communist, it doesn't matter what religion you may favor. Communism is it's own religion. The fact is you are Godless. You are Godless and to be pitied - certainly not followed.

    • daves

      ec·u·men·i·cal/ˌekyəˈmenikəl/
      Adjective:
      Representing a number of different Christian churches.
      Promoting or relating to unity among the world's Christian churches:

  • Bobseeks

    There are no Christian socialists, communists, lieberals, or democrats. There are, though pseudo-Christian socialists, communists, lieberals, and democrats. All of these have the same evil root - atheism as expressed by the jacobin scum who instituted the "terror" during the French Revolution and the teachings of Karl Marx. Over the centuries, these teachings have resulted in atheistic regimes that committed gross atrocities against the human race (eg.: hitler, stalin, mao, pol pot, castro, etc., etc., etc.). They have also resulted in the expenditure of trillions of dollars by those countries that did not want to be overrun by these monsters. From this evil root came abortion, and the moral degradation that we see in our society today. Obviously then, no Christian can ascribe to socialism, communism, or lieberalism or be a member of the democrat party that embraces all these evils.

    • Ray

      This is my reaction to the title - you cannot be a true Christian follower and a prog/lib/socialist/democrat/moderate/independent . Witness Nanzi Pelousy, who claims to be a devoted Catholic, all the while embracing all the anti-American hippie/ows/socialistgay/abortion movement, preaching about 'sharing the wealth', paying your 'fair share', while she and her family are worth millions -

      Please wake up America, or there will be no more America that was like the America you knew while growing up . .

  • Terrance

    Excellent article!

    • NIck

      Excellent Article! Now pass it around and admonish your neighborhood!

    • Prof Gene

      This article is on spot. It is not only evangelicals, but Roman Catholics that have sold out to socialism and statism. Catholic Charities is a lobby group in D.C. for making sure they get a piece of the socialism pie from Uncle Sam rather than dependending on the parishes which lend less and less to their fellow Christians. The dependence is very dangerous for Christians.

  • Steve

    I was amazed as Nov 2008 exit poll results were being announced that in just about every state mentioned, those who identified themselves as Evangelical Christians were voting between 25-28% in favor of the pro-abortion, pro-homosexual marriage candidate Barak Obama. I couldn't, and still can't, fathom why someone who identifies as a believer in Jesus Christ and the word of God could vote so contrary to his teachings. In fact, how can a Christian identify him/herself as a Democrat when the political platform of the Democratic party is so anti-God and anti-Bible? The only possible explanations are: either they are extremely liberal in their interpretation of "evangelical Christian", or political affiliation to an earthly party trumps their adherence to the values and beliefs of their heavenly Father as taught in the Bible, or they attend churches where the pastor is not preaching the gospel or fails to relate the gospel to issues currently facing society. A pastor who preaches against the sin of homosexuality cannot fail to point out how the Obama administration has trampled on traditional marriage; or one who preaches the sanctity of life cannot fail to point out the attack on life by organizations such as Planned Parenthood and other liberal organizations.
    God, or Jehova Jirah, is the source of wealth, not the government. The Biblical model says a man who won't support his own family is worse than an infidel. In other words, fathers are financially responsible for their children. The verse cited in the article is a solution to welfare, to taxpayer funded government handouts, and many of the ills in society today. Taking care of the members of your family, including siblings, elderly/ill family members, and children is much better accomplished without government assistance.
    One of the problems with government programs is that they are a self-perpetuating cycle. More receiving benefits ensures continued funding and employment for those giving out the funds, and it then becomes the best interest of those giving out the funds to ensure there is someone there to receive it, so they can get even more money to distribute, and the cycle continues. There is no incentive to say you really don't need this, or what are you doing to become independent and make your own way?

    • truthwillout

      What ever happened to separation of government and religion?

      • Rooster

        Nothing, except it's been highjacked by those who are atheists, socialists—as some kind of Constitutional mandate—but "separation of church and state" is not constitutional. Why people continue to demonstrate blind ignorance or illiteracy when reading the 1st Amendment is a mystery. "Separation of church and state" only exists in the minds of woefully ignorant Christians, Christians in name only, and the hoards of those who are anti-Christian.

        • daves

          Any time Government is involved in religion, we all lose. It is sad that so many do not see that.

      • http://thechristiansolution.com thechristiansolution

        Here is how it works. Religion is protected from government, but government is not protected from religion.

        • http://twitter.com/2WarAbnVet @2WarAbnVet

          You mean - How it is supposed to work.

    • Crom

      Ron Paul is a Pro-Homosexual candidate, Pro-Gays in military and supports the abortion pill to "Terminate Very early Pregnancies" and alot of Christians here support him

      • daves

        God gave us all the ability to decide for ourselves. Why do you think we should use man's law to take that choice away?

        Do you know better than God?

    • Vandagriff

      Problem with terms, polls and questions. While many in the pulpit preach from what they were taught in seminary, they are less aware of what the Bible says and vulnerable to progressive propaganda. What is more persuasive than the preacher in the church? Christian today has so many meanings that even adding the qualifier "evangelical" raises more questions than it answers. I wonder about the assumptions. God blesses those who are obedient but often allows things to happen according to His will that men cannot understand. God is just and does not err. Basically, using government to take from the obedient to reward those whom God has not chosen or who are disobedient is nothing but stealing based on coveting what another person has, whether by effort, frugality or birthright. Govt is good so long as it does not conflict with God's natural law. I can't help thinking of Romans 1:18-32.

  • crosshugger

    Hmmmm so how do they reconcile that God takes care of his children...they have more faith in a man led government than in our Creator....also is stated in Scripture that when they worship the creation more than the Creator..........Sounds like the Israelites in the desert to me....................

  • Basil BuddhaCat

    The question which should be asked is "Why in the world don't ALL Christians follow the teachings of Jesus Christ - who was a proponent of all things which Socialists promote.

    Go figure.

    • randellmd

      Sorry Jesus would be a capitalist today, you moron. Don't worry, i didn't sin by calling you moron. Paul did it to the moronic Galatians also.

  • Ima99er

    But how else will we begin to get some semblance of reproductive rights for women, relief from capitalist oppression, growth for our unions and help for gays and minorities? Who will do that? Church and God need to change with the times! Get real.

    • Bobseeks

      I hope that you are being ironic. It is society that needs to change, not the Church.

      • Ima99er

        Yeah, I was - couldn't help it. Sorry! :) I get so sick of hearing how much of this liberal/socialist/communist junk that Christians have absorbed. We all play along with politically correct speech. The thought of otherwise Christian people subscribing to such anti-Christian ideology deeply saddens me. And yes, I've heard people affirming the notion that God (usually spelled with a lower-case "g") needs to change - since He's our invention, anyway. Sometimes I feel like the last living cell in a dead body...

      • Katie2011

        Bob
        Right on!
        It is up to the individual Christian to help those he/she can around them. NOT the government.
        Great article showing how easily some are led astray.

    • Chris

      The Bible has remained the same for thousands of years. It clearly states in the Bible to not add or take anything away from the scripture. If you believe anything else, you are not a Christian or you are a milk toast liberal Christian. Yes we should help people, but not support them, and allow them to be lazy! We should help homosexuals to see the light and change thier evil ways and not support thier homosexuality! I'm not saying that, the Bible says that! You might try reading it some time!

    • Orley

      I see impa99 doesn't know anything about God. The union has too much power already that is one of our problems and why we have priced ourselves out of the market. If only we could believe that God does not bless evil,. If we as a people will humble ourselves and turn from our evil ways them God will bless our nation (and His people).

    • E.Blake

      Please watch

      Watch the three video's in this web site. They are some real eye openers. I hope that we don't end up with Martial Law and are able to vote Obumer out.
      http://dailythoughtpad.blogspot.com/

    • gray man

      I'm amazed at how ignorant that comment was

    • Kalev

      Balogny, pork balogny from a liberal shrill.

    • George2

      Surely you absolutely being sarcastic when you mention "some semblance of reproductive rights for women, RELIEF from capitalist oppression, and ESPECIALLY growth for our UNIONS", etc. I will admit, there is a great need for SOME churches to change (turn back to God) But no matter how much the TIMES change...There is no need, neither should we ASK ...THE church, Nor GOD to change. Remember, "the same yesterday, today and tomorrow " . God is that way, and He expects US to be that way in our relations with Him. As far as the church"s taking care of "relief". OUR church KNOWS it's members, and their needs, and TAKES CARE OF THEM, as each congregation should do. BUT...we are NOT expected to take care of "outsiders"

    • Fran

      You're pretty brave dictating to the ONLY TRUE GOD. HE makes the rules, and they haven't changed since He created man and the world. Repent and be saved ... Jesus died for your sins too.

    • michelle

      God dont need to change with the times!the times are supposed to listen to Him,and do His will instead of what the world wants.see,there's a reason why HE'S God and we're not.He dont have to answer to anybody.because He makes the rules,not us!

  • Jonathan Gartner

    The problem in many "churchs" such as Wrights and Wallis to mention only two is that Christ and his teachings are being perverted to social justice and homosexuality. The true Ministers of the Word need to get up and denouce these as being hereitcal in nature then you will see a drop off of that kind of "Christianity"

  • GER

    Although I agree mostly, maybe it should read those "claiming to be Christian". We are not Christians based on the church we attend or that we are Americans.
    I agree with another poster who mentioned that pastors and teachers are telling itching ears what they want to hear. They don't want to hear that abortion is wrong, that homosexuality is sin - a willful choice - just as choosing to have sex outside marriage is a sinful choice. Some do not come to the church for help because they fear being held accountable for choices in life, the government doesn't do this unless the choices go against the government's own warping morals and priorities.
    There is a stage 4 cancer in this country and only the Almighty God can heal it. The True Church needs to be willing to be used by God or this cancer will consume this nation until it is no more!

    • Rick

      Ans sometimes the only way to cure cancer is to cut out the malignant tumor, which is what God may do shortly i fear

    • Charles Ross

      1 John tells us what the evidence is of one who is truly a follower of Christ. (1:6-7 "If we say that we have fellowshhip with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the light as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin."...2:3 "By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.") It all begins with a relationship w/ Jesus Christ Matt. 5:3, Rom. 10:9-10. Each person will have to work out their own salvation but we are to help each other. Just a thought...how did God's people survive the famine in Egypt and surrounding nations during Joseph's leadership in Egypt? Just a thought....

      • nellapea

        nicely stated and true except the part about the famine in Egypt. The famine was not in Egypt, but in the surrounding lands- remember that Joseph's father, Jacob, sent his other son's to Egypt to buy the grains/food necessary for them to survive.

  • auntiecoosa

    Too many Catholics got and get caught in the "Social Justice" web and don't realize they're being sucked into Liberation Theology. The Early Church tried Socialism ... and abandoned it ... it didn't work then for the same reasons it doesn't work now ... lazy people want to be fed but don't want to work for the good of the community.

    Too many Catholic Bishops and Priests [and I'm a Roman Catholic] were brought up in the '60s and have no concept beyond their 'hippie' so called libertarian socialism. It's not Catholic and in many cases is the antithesis of Catholic Theology and belief.

  • http://www.warrenfales.com Warren Fales

    There is a reason for this socialistic behavior of church going people. They are unconverted. Church membership and true conversion do not go hand-in-hand. Self servers can make membership and avoid descipleship. They refuse the path of self-surrender. JUDE says they "go the way of cain". They cannot live by faith because faith demands obedience and total trust in God of which only self surrender will make possible, sooo they look to the government when they need help. They vote for man's promises and refuse to trust in God's promises.

  • http://www.BornAgainHeathens.com Tim BAH

    With the Parable of the Talents Jesus taught, "...to each according to his own ability" from Mat 25:15. To allow anyone, let alone government to get between God and self is an attempt to destroy what Jesus did on the cross. The curtain that acted as a barrier between us and the Holy of Holy (mercy seat of God where the ark once set) was torn when Jesus proclaimed from the cross, "it is finished."

    We are able to go through Jesus straight to God for any need. To replace our needs, rewards, and guidance in God with man, or man's government is to make man god. Back to that original lie that got us tossed from the Garden. "Nothing new under the sun."

    Words of Jesus from Matthew 24:24, "For false christ and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect".
    http://www.BornAgainHeathens.com

  • Murphree

    People usually don't go to the church for help because the church unusually fails to help them or are very judgmental. At least that what they fear. So rather than being disappointed they take the easy road of state welfare.

    • pearl

      No, I think that they fear there will be strings attached, as there should be. If you get money from the government, you can keep drinking, doing drugs, gambling, neglecting your children, whatever. And what about doing something for yourself, as well? When the Church gets involved, they want to see you make an effort to change your life, get a job and work, instead of expecting another handout every month.

      • Murphree

        Non believers yes, but I'm talking about believers.

    • Helga

      SOME CHURCHES TEACH WE HELP YOU BUT YOU HAVE TO WORK FOR IT AND HELP YOURSELF, EXEPT FOR THE SICK AND THE ELDERLY WE HELP WITHOUT QUESTIONS.

  • B. Hill

    You MEAN, too many people who CALL themselves, are Socialist. Just because someone proclaims knowing Jesus Christ and goes to church are really Christians. Of course, nobody can really say for sure if they are Christians or not. But, one thing for sure the Lord says that you WILL know them by their fruits. Matthew 7:16.

    So, what is fruit? It is what the Christian (believer) produces in their lives by good deeds but are guided solely by the power of God and NOT their flesh. In other words. Christianity is about God working His power THROUGH the Christian, thus doing HIS will and NOT the individuals will. Read John 15 (the vine and the branch principal)

    Now, I don't expect everyone reading this to understand or be able to judge someone else's fruit (deeds). Many people who call themselves Christians (knowing God) do not really know Him at all. They are self-serving goats who use what God called good, to do evil.

    Read in Matthew 7:21-23 are a few most critical verses that God says will come to pass for those who call themselves Christians and do evil. Verse 21 says; NOT everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter..Verse 22 says; Many will say to Me on that day, Lord , Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?...Verse 23 And then I will declare to them, "I NEVER knew YOU, Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.

    See, not everyone who says they are a Christian will practice or follow the ways and will of the Lord Jesus Christ, but they will take the way of grouping with those who are on the lawlessness trail of Socialism. Socialism stunts freedom, the freedoms that GOD gave people here on earth. When you do this it is NOT GOD's will or way. It is the way of the Devil himself...

  • barbpatton

    I am in agreement with Johnathan Gartner but wish to add to the witches brew such staid and steady churches: CAtholics, Methodists, Lutherans who proclaim to be Christians and work to spread the word of God, YET, I repeat YET these people are sympatheitc towards the protestors, carp on and on about abortion- racial discrimination, sodomy and THEY are the guilty ones!!!! all in the name of Jesus Christ of course. Nancy Pelosi claims she is a Catholic and votes for the abortion bill and Obamacare!!!! what kind of message is that?? Perhaps her donation to thie Whore of Babylon is big enough for them to close their eyes to these double standards. Give me Johan Hagee any day - he tells it like it is, and lives it like God wants all of us to live.

    • pearl

      You are not being fair, anyone can say they belong to a Church, that doesn't mean they are sincere or in line with the teaching. Pelosi is no Catholic, as she holds views in direct opposition to the teaching of the Church.

    • George2

      I agree with most of your post, barbpatton, but I have watched John Hgee a number of times...and he has NEVER...told it like it is. He never mentions once, GOD'S plan of salvation...he plays on "itching ears" and the philosophy of mass hypnosis...and the masses are flocking to his like magots on putrid rotten menat. THAT...is "telling it like it is!"

    • ChillaKilla

      For your info, Hagee used to be a rabid anti-Catholic who spouted off against Catholicism from a point of ignorance and unvarnished bigotry.
      Apparently, thorugh seeing the work of the Church and actually learning what it truly preaches and practices, he has changed his point of view.
      It's a sad fact that most anti-Catholic protestants rather than inform themselves first hand only reapeat the hatred and misinformation they get from their own pastors/leaders. And, most unfortunately yet is the fact that some protestant sects define themselves not but what they believe or by what they actually do to help and heal others, but by how best they can slam the object of their hatred: the Catholic Church!

  • Nanette

    Unfortunately, many Christians do not see the correlation between who they are Christians and what they view is politics! Ima99er, you get real! Complete humanistic view, "God you need to change chant!" and very clearly NOT a Christian! Amazing to me, no wonder we are very clearly in the last days of the Church age! Jesus will "spew us out of his mouth"! You can't be both a Christian and vote for those things that are out and out against God's instructions! Women's right to reproduction, CLOSE your legs! It has also become very clear to me listening to those close to me and casual relationships that God is not their center, nor can they serve two masters! Christians have become very callous and are following the wrong "light".

    • Helga

      ALOT OF PEOPLE CALL THEM SELFS CHRITIANS BUT THEY NOTHING BUT HYPOCRITES, IT IS NOT ALWAYS THE TEACHINGS OF THE CHURCH, IT IS THE PEOPLE IN THE CHURCH THAT STRAY.

    • George2

      Nanette...I like your comment, "following the wrong light"
      there are HEAD LIGHTS, and there are TAIL LIGHTS...then there are BACK-UP LIGHTS. We can only SEE the way...when we use the headlights! A great many need to wake up...and see the light!

  • Don

    How true! The problem of course stems from the book of Acts but few understand that it was a differant time where the church was having to get Gods church off to a strong beginning and having to go underground to a great extent due to perseution by both the orthodox Jews and mostly the Romans. As your artical points out, Paul said 'if a man will not work they shouldn't eat'. But few remember that it is written in that the day will come in Heaven when we will do those things needful for our own comforts and not rely on God to do it all for us. e read in Isaiah 65: 21-22 ' And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.' Nowhere is it in Gods plans for one to work and another eat...

    Good story.

  • Gus Gianello

    The problem is there are no real Christians. Those who stand aloof from an imperial society are my true brothers. Ancient Christians in Rome refused to go to the gladiator fights, attend pagan temples, expose their children, divorce their wives or serve in the army. They stood aloof. They condemned heretics, rejected schismatics, and rebuked those who sold the Word for profit. Any man who claimed to be an itinerant prophet was shunned if he was still living off other Christians after three days. Anyone who refused to repent of evil repeatedly was excommunicated. True ancient Christians did not vote for Caesar, they declared "Jesus is Lord not Caesar" even when at the point of a sword. Their citizenship was in the kingdom of god, they did not care about being patriotic and advocating for Israel or Rome, etc. they did not pursue wealth but wisdom; they did not pursue freedom but liberty and they did not pursue a long life but a life well lived.

    Are you a true Christian or a North American evangelical?

    [email protected]

    Dr. Gus Gianello

    • http://thechristiansolution.com thechristiansolution

      I kiked this Gus, but for a more exact question. "Are you a true Christian or a slave to the Jewish Apartheid system who really rules America?"

    • Thomas Phillips

      Only people that have believed upon the Lord Jesus Christ alone as their Savior can be considered "True" Christians.
      Jesus Christ alone has paid for everyone's debt to God. When Jesus Christ was Crucified, buried and then rose again could we be forgiven of all ours sins by calling upon the name of Jesus Christ to be our Savior.

      The poll should have been to self-proclaiming "Born Again" Christians and not to Evangelical" christians.
      As was said in an earlier post, going to a church does not make you a Christian.

      • Barbara

        Amen to "going to church does not make you a Christian!"

    • http://www.gravesjudo.com Mitch

      This is very close to the truth.
      There are FEW real Christians.
      Too many think they are CHRIST's just because they say s0, or go to church . Going into a church does not make you a Christian any more than going into a barn makes you a horse!
      Only those who have faith (IE: CHOSEN to believe) and given LORDSHIP (control) of their lives to CHRIST are actual Christians. These ones will lay down their lives; their plans, dreams, will, etc etc etc seeking only to do the will of HIM who saved them.
      The reason the world has no respect for Christians or the church is that so many who claim to be Christians have no respect for GOD and HIS will and ways.

  • pearl

    They do not really trust in the Lord, they, too, want an earthly Utopia. I live in NY (gag) and we now have TWO Democrat Senators, both pro-abortion, pro homosexual marriage, and anti-Christian. Could this happen if every Christian voted pro-life? I think not.

  • theodorej

    Any so called christian that is a socialist is neither a christian or a follower of christ..... A man is to earn his keep by the sweat of his brow..( Not his brothers').... Yes.... Jesus told us that the poor will always be with us ..... It is the lazy that are the problem and we can't tell t he diference so we pay them all...

  • Laura Leiter

    It is easy to wish that a faceless corporation or wealthy individual be robbed to care for the poor. How much more difficult is it to make a practice of visiting and assisting the poor ourselves like we were told to do? That is real sacrifice. Besides, there are other nations where we are the poor. Some would like to "equalize" that. These are the ones who break the commandments not to covet or to steal.

  • Doug Smith

    The church that allows an openly hostile government to fill the role the church could be doing is missing a huge blessing. The government wants to take the place of Christ as the provider of all things. Forget God, bow down before the all knowing, all powerful Government. Liberal progressive to separate the people from their God. We have gotten lazy and let government steal our blessing. Who should know better who needs help, local churches not bureaucrats and multiple layers of wasteful infrastructure. It's been to easy (Though wasteful and expensive) to let them raise taxes to cover the cost of public assistance rather than get personally involved to aid the needy in our own area.

    • UCLOWN

      What the goverment should do is give tax credits to Faith base org. and them take care of the poor. The church would be able to regulate the fraud. But you know the church sometimes is so busy with building programs, church attendance etc.The poor gets pushed aside. God commands us, those in Christ to take care of the widows and orphans first then feed the poor. Us as a body just don't get it!

    • Phil 4:9

      Doug - Good job.
      Shadrak, Meshak and Abednego were commanded to "Bow" to the big golden image Nebuchadnezzer had set up or "Burn" in his flaming, fiery furnace. "Bow or burn" was the choice before them.
      They all said in one accord, "We might burn, oh kingy-wingy, but we won't bow to your edifice of personal glorification and beatification. We know God is ABLE to save us. But, whether or not he will is not our call; so, we might burn...but, no, sir! we won't bow"
      Neither did they bow nor did they burn. In fact they were given great freedom and authority in that country.

  • FlaJim

    Many of the posters here seem to have missed the central point that the author was trying to make. Government has been trying to usurp the role of the church in our communities for 80 years by making itself the sole provider to the less advantanged or disadvantaged in our midst. In doing so, some Christians rationalize that this may be preferable because 'all' are participating in helping out.

    The error in their thinking is that while the church does this out of love and compassion, government does this in a cynical manner calculated to make the recipients of its largesse more dependent and funds it with forced 'contributions' (taxes). In addition, the government's cut for administration of its giveaways is a stunning 70%. Church efforts are generally aimed at helping people get back up on their own two feet; government wants nothing of the sort. There lies the difference.

  • Chris

    Too funny. Christians are supposed to be socialists and work together to help each other.

    The right loves them an anarchy.

  • Richard M

    When your on the verge of losing your country because our current POTUS is real busy ruining our economy, I guess I'd be concerned about the economy right now.

    Ever since Roe v. Wade, the SCOTUS has dealt American morality a lethal blow. But, even though abortion has been accepted as lawful, right now, this president is busy throwing America under the bus. When we get a new true, conservative president then, hopefully, he can turn the economy around and we'll hopefully get around to the abortion issue. I think America is ripe for legal challenges concerning abortion (especially late-term), and we can start to get America back on the right path again. One step at a time.

  • http://thechristiansolution.com thechristiansolution

    This is not the first time that Evangelical Christians have been mislead. They followed the neo-cons in marching off to the Middle East to fights wars and it is happening all over again with Iran.

    Ron Paul is being targeted by the judeo-press because of a foreign policy of peace. The judeo-media wants America to have a foreign policy of seeing how much we can poke a stick at the Iranians until they "strike first".

    Heckl, we just had a drone knocked down flying in Iraninan airspace in violation of international law.
    WE ARE THE AGGRESSORS !

    If we are to win this, we must defeat the myths that have Christians worshipping at the alter of Israel at all costs.

    We must agree that God gave the Israelites two important things:

    A) The Promised Lands Treasure on Earth
    B) The Promise Treasure in Heaven

    However, Christians must know that if the Jesus-denying Jews do not believe in God's promise of Jesus Christ, why then should they believe that God's promise of the Holy Lands is still good?

    Christians ONLY are the proper inheritors of both Promises.

    • gray man

      I'm even more amazed at the ignorance of this comment

      • http://thechristiansolution.com thechristiansolution

        Need more specifics. What am I ignorant on?

    • http://www.gravesjudo.com Mitch

      I agree; the ignorance of GOD's word and the position HE tells us to take, *and keep*, visa-vi Israel is clearly lost on this guy. I've got news for you Mr "solution", GOD wants HIS children to share HIS views and opinions on EVERY subject.
      And HIS opinion on Israel is extremely clear. GOD has made HIS views on it manifest repeatedly throughout history when other nation have attacked, betrayed, or abandoned Israels *OR* his hard headed children the Jews.
      To suggest we can in any way diminish our support of either is to guarantee judgement .
      If you don't know this...you simply do not know ro understand what GOD has said in HIS word.

      • http://thechristiansolution.com thechristiansolution

        Mitch, so you believe God blesses Christians in America flying a military drone to invade Iranian airspace, BECAUSE God wants American Christians to help a country "calling itself Israel" who is filled to the brime with people who reject Christ?

        Can you explain to all us ignorant lost souls what the purpose and mission then of God sending Christ, born of the line of David, to the Israelites? In your eyes, is the purpose of Christianity to be slaves to Jews who deny Christ?

        Or is the answer that you are Jewish?

        • http://www.gravesjudo.com Mitch

          LOL...really? You seem to be devoid of rational thought pal.
          Point out to me where I said GOD blesses us sending the drone? LIAR!
          This is the typical leftist use of the Straw Man Fallacy.
          And another lie: What in ANYTHING I said gives the slightest idea we are to be enslaved to anyone ?
          Tell the truth, you are some leftist nutcase just coming here to throw nonsense around and pretend you are some sort of dippy pseudo-Christian aren't you.
          Clearly you have no idea of the numerous commands and warning both NT and OT that we are to bless Israel.
          SO -let's assume we have no SCRIPTURAL obligation it Israel:
          To pursue logic again (try and keep up) are we to treat Israel WORSE than we'd treat our best ally? Would we do less for the single bastion of freedom and democracy in the most unstable region of the world? Would we take away the only "lid" on a region bubbling with crazy despite our promises of support> Would we let them be wiped out when we would save a corrupt rotten nation like Kuwait..and many others? Are you so foolish and ignorant of the dangers of Islam that you like that buffer removed so we can be their primary focus instead of Israel? No one could be that stupid!
          But alas for you, the scripture DOES command we honor and support, and pray for Israel. And this means HIS strayed children who run it as well. (BTW - more and more are accepting CHRIST every day there).

          And YES! by GOD and HIS great grace I am a grafted in Jew. HE has seen fit to allow me to partake of HIS blessings and promises to Abraham and his heirs by making a way for me to become part of that family tree. Furthermore I am covered in the blood of the greatest of all Jews. so there! LOL

        • samekindunblind

          You guys are both deluded fools. thechristiansolution is a paranoid racist anti-semite and mitch is just an angry fundamentalist. Your argument does however provide a wonderful example of how religion breeds anger and hate based upon completely imaginary problems.

        • http://www.gravesjudo.com Mitch

          And you Mr "blind' are a liar also.
          First of I'd like to remind all the squeamish Christians hereabouts (both real and imagined) that CHRIST did NOT go about carrying a lamb and looking like he was perpetually seasick. HE constantly angered people by directly addressing their deception and wickedness.
          People like the delusional "Mr blind" imagine that telling the truth equals "spreading hate". These are the same silly people who equate our disapproval of perversion and "homophobia" and our disagreement with murdering the unborn and "intolerant". etc etc...
          ***So has 'Mr blind' lied?
          - What "problems" did I name?
          - Which were imaginary?
          - And who exactly would decide to hate because of them?
          I'm afraid sir that your little red reputation indicator tells any thinking person you are nothing more than a bomb thrower (rhetorical of course). You had no rational reply to detract from the facts and logic I used and so you make the typical leftist ad hominem attack (fallacy) failing to realize you only look stupid as a result.

          Some might wonder why I bother to address your tripe at all. Because for all I know there is some young impressionable Christian lurking here and they might actually believe the absurd accusations from 'Mr blind' as they are incessantly repeated by the lying lefties on every comment page one can find.

          And one last thing 'Mr blind" kudos on the accuracy of your chosen handle....well the last part of it anyway.

        • http://thechristiansolution.com thechristiansolution

          Mitch: Point out to me where I said GOD blesses us sending the drone? LIAR!
          --------------------------
          I am no liar. I said we were poking at the Irainans and we flew planes into their airspace. Israel says this is vital to their defense. You agree that it is vital that we protect Israel. And you base your comment on what God said in Genesis.

          Mitch: Clearly you have no idea of the numerous commands and warning both NT and OT that we are to bless Israel.
          ------------------
          I am open to correction. Show me where Jesus ever said that we should bless Israel. Or that we would be cursed if we don't support Israel?

          GAZA is a Concentration camp, ran by Jewish camp guards. Most Jews in Israel are agnostic. The present secular state of Israel is not an authentic or prophetic realization of the Messianic kingdom of Jesus Christ. It is more like a Zionist theme park on the Mediterranean paid for by my tax dollars.

          Neo-Israel is your golden calf.

        • Fanofthefounders

          It's amazing how right you both are. We do need to end monetary foreign aid not just to Israel, but to everyone, not just because we can't afford it and because they don't need it, but because it's unconstitutional. Our allies however, need to be defended if attacked and Israel is an ally.

          As far as GAZA being a concentration camp, you might want to count the number of bomb shelters on the Israeli side and then count them on the Palestinian side. The result will tell who the aggressors are.

  • Pericles

    I have made an observation of this question, namely, why so many Christians are liberal. While it is true that Scripture talks of compassion, these folks want to enable. The Church, unfortunately, is engaged in societal codependency. Every time a person makes a bad decision, even when s/he knows or should have known better, the Church wants to come to this person's rescue. While compassion is good, I feel that our society is "overcompassioned"; everytime a person breeds a child irresponsibly, abuses drugs irresponsibly, knowingly and recklessly engages in behaviors that lead to HIV/AIDS, the Church and gov't step in and say, "Poor baby, you made a bad decision and we will help you but not hold you accountable for your irresponsible behavior." All of this comes about because we abuse and misunderstand "caring" and "compassion." These can be good, but even too much of a good thing can have negative consequences.

    • http://www.gravesjudo.com Mitch

      One huge factor is that many who imagine themselves to be Christians are not.
      (See my comment below.)

  • Victor Barney

    Here's the problem Godfather! Socialism, as Obama's Marxism, is Anti-Christ in belief by it's own definition and Marxism, as written, is the ONLY SIN that CANNOT BE FORGIVEN---FOREVER! WATCH!

  • Victor Barney

    Interestingly, ANY "Bible" states at least 3 times(Zeph. 3:9, Acts 26:14, & 1 Cor. 4:6) that HEBREW IS THE "ONLY" INSPIRED LANGUAGE AND ALL THINGS MUST BE PROVEN THROUGH IT! Problem: "JESUS" is a GREEK WORD HONORING, ZEUS(FACT) and IT IS AGAINST THE 3RD COMMANDMENT! OH, THE CLOSEST WORD IN "HEBREW" TO "JESUS" IS HORSE? NO! I KNOW NOT! WATCH! INSTEAD TRY TRUTH: [email protected]; p.s.: Yes the whole world has been deceived! Did I mention that in 1520 AD Pope Leo the 10th asked his Church Philosopher in Rome, Petrus Galatinus, to change the name of the "Jewish" Messiah into a NAME the honored "ZEUS" because it has the tradition of "Rome" to honor those that they had defeated in war? Just saying...

    • http://www.gravesjudo.com Mitch

      As one who has studied Heb for 30+ yrs I must say you are one of the most mus-informed wingnuts I have run into for some time. You are the very picture of a pseudo-intellectual. You have filled you head with one sided nonsense. You are to dishonest or afraid to go out and find the answers to your silly beliefs. You are utterly deceived. And like most of your ilk you lust to spread this deception believing in your hubris you have found some 'deeper truth". Any average seminary student could humiliate you in a debate but you'll probably just go on believing this because you are too gutless to even look for the truth. I pray for GOD to bring you to repentance before you end up in the HELL you don't believe in. NOTE: Your believing in it will have absolutely no effect on it's reality when you arrive there.

      • http://thechristiansolution.com thechristiansolution

        Mitch, for someone who says a lot, you say nothing.

        Victor, as Mitch says, you are a wingnut:-) First off, a quick check of the quotes you provide refutes everything you said. As for the word Jesus, I speak English, my Bible says Jesus, and therefor; I know what the word means. In particular, it does not mean Zeus.

  • Rooster

    John 3:7–8 says, "You must be born again from above ... so is everyone born of the Spirit." Unfortunately there are tens of thousands of people who embrace the Christian religion but have never experienced John 3:7–8. Not having the life-giving Spirit residing within leaves one susceptible to all the political and religious -isms that distract from Christ. So, what is discussed in this article shouldn't be surprising to Christians who lean wholly on Christ and understand that the government is never the answer to anything. That's why the Founders (Jefferson) created a document that is intended to limit government. Socialist interpret it as a blank check to do whatever they want to control the masses. From the time it was written, the Constitution has been under attack because of power hungry and evil men.

    Bonasera eludes to someone who comes to the Church for help when in trouble. This seems to depict a congregation whose members are not a community, but just people who happen to meet in the same place. My wife and I have been on both ends of the financial scale, but have been fortunate enough to be part of a Christian community—that looks on the outside like other Christian gatherings—but whose members are constantly interacting and engaged with one another. When we were in financial straits, the congregation knew it without us coming for help—because we knew each other well. One night the doorbell rang and no one was there, but there were two bags of groceries on the porch. When we’ve had plenty, we've happily given to members of our group as well as many Christian outreach organizations. (By the way, New Testament giving is not based on 10%, but on the widow’s mites—Mark 12:41-44 & Luke 21:1-4.) None of us would ever go to the government for help.

    I write this to simply show how far the Christian church has fallen into the secular world—has become unequally yoked. So, it should not be a surprise that there is a large number of so-called Christians (or misguided Christians) who would support a socialist regime, even one that kowtows to Islam.

  • traitors in our gov

    God said even his flock will betray him..

    • samekindunblind

      sure did, and just look at you go!

  • Gwhite

    There is NO such thing as a Christian Liberal/Democrat/Socialist. PERIOD. When they die they ALL, did you get that word ALL, will spend eternity in HELL. PERIOD........ Along with Nobama, Pelosi, Reed and all the rest of the crooks and criminals from the good old state of IIllnois. PEROID.........

  • gjw

    What are the opposites of: Republican, Right Wing, Consertative, Christian???? That's what we are called, so what is the opposites????? Dumbocrats, Left wing, Liberal, Anti-Christain. PERIOD, nough said............

    • samekindunblind

      When one can only see in black and white, I suppose that seems true. In a black and white world, if you do not accept one extreme then you must be the other extreme.

  • http://http/aol.com sean murrey ILLInio

    This old vetaran is no socialist but a patriot i dont believe in socialism to me they are moggots.

  • ms stars & stripes

    I've often wondered how so many democrats choose words that are similar to witnesses of various faiths but continue to bask in the flimsy and inferior ways of the world i.,e., allow abortion, allow illegals to collect monies that is not theirs, allow same sex marriages, etc.. In time, because we are bombarded with mention of these things over and over again, in ads, in movies, we will come to accept these things without flinching. We now have a mish-mash of people who's main objective is to have it their way. And if they can't find a leader who will do that, well look who's running our country. Voted in by people, disrupted the country, deny nothing, legal or illegal... doesn't matter. Give a screaming and spoiled little child their way all the time and what do you get? A screaming and spoiled adult. God help us.

  • Boletero

    Yep, we are doomed. So many opinions and very few hit the nail on the head !

    The problem is very simple: There are more people eating at the supper table than working in the garden! That's a fact.

    Goverments NEVER fix anything, but they sure cause a lot of problems. Be my guest, check it out! From the moment the ink dried, the US Constitution has been turned and twisted to fit the liberal agenda and to Hell with the Country !!!

    Saludos Vatos.....

    • samekindunblind

      So you're an anarchist? Why reference the constitution? Look up the term "cognitive dissonance." Meanwhile,I suspect you're not an anarchist, just someone who holds their every feeble-minded opinion in terms of absolutes.

      • http://thechristiansolution.com thechristiansolution

        Progressives did cripple the Constitution with the 17th Amendment, which totally removed the checks and balances of State power to federal power. We must repeal the 17th or the Feds will grow into an absolute dictatorship.

  • Charles Ross

    It all begins with a relationship w/ Jesus Christ Matt. 5:3, Rom. 10:9-10. Each person will have to work out their own salvation but we are to help each other. Just a thought...how did God's people survive the famine in Egypt and surrounding nations during Joseph's leadership in Egypt? Just a thought....if the Church were doing it's part there wouldn't be such issues among it's members. Greed, unfortunately (as well as control and power) has tainted the leadership of many churches also.

  • Blair Franconia, NH

    There is such a thing as Christian socialism,

  • http://www.gravesjudo.com Mitch

    This article is absolutely true but is overlooks an even more fundamental issue that is at the root of the problem mentioned:
    AND IT"S TIME SOME PEOPLE GET THIS:
    One is NOT a Christian just because they think they are. One MUST give lordship of their life to CHRIST. This is NOT my opinion. It is what GOD has said in HIS word. We are warned that MANY will be in deception and GOD will not even KNOW many who claim to be Christians. ..SO! How do we know? Well here is a really big clue you may have a long and very hot retirement plan: You don't share GOD's opinions in your world view. Because GOD says HE will give you HIS thoughts and views IF you are HIS and seek HIM.
    So this article will help you check yourself before you wreck yourself. Two VERY important things:
    #1 - If you find your world view is not in line with GOD's just ask HIM to forgive you and open your eyes. HE will do it if you are serious.
    #2 - don't imagine agreeing with GOD on this or many issues makes you a Christian.
    HE *must* be LORD of your life by a choice of your will and a decision to believe and trust HIM.

    • http://thechristiansolution.com thechristiansolution

      Mitch, YOU judged my Christianity in another post on this article, NOT because it was YOUR opinion, heaven forbid, but because it was YOUR opinion of what God says. Aren't you just running around in circles with your Biblical twisting as you accuse others of doing? Hypocrite!

  • The

    I don't believe that a true Christian can be a Socialist.

  • AjfrenchAllyjayne

    Once again, the church you describe here is not the church of my youth.

    • http://www.gravesjudo.com Mitch

      You and innumerable others....hence the problems mentioned.
      I was raised by atheist leftist teachers who both became politicians. I was a Sen page and a hard core leftist who burned his draft card and gave leftist speeches and rioted. But then (while hitchhiking around Europe) I found out I had been deceived on a very serious issue. I declared at 19 I would then read the other side of every issue I ran in to and make certain I heard both sides of every issue. One of those issues was 'god'. I studied all the major religions and dismissed the majority right away due to their absurdity, circular reasoning, or blatant wickedness (islam). The only one which I could not dismiss was Christianity and the harder I looked the more solid it became. I committed myself to CHRIST then spent 2 yrs trying to find a flaw in HIS word. The rational being "if HE could not keep HIS own word together HE certainly could not save a loser like me'!
      Since I was not twisted into the system of any denomination I studied all of them and read every single biography of great Christians from Fenelon and Madam Guyon to Pat Robertson. I took not of the constants in these peoples lives and ignored the oddities. I scrutinized and tested every major doctrine as well, even to infiltrating the choir of a major healing ministry to see if they violated scripture in word or deed. Another great influence was a catholic priest and a bunch of old nuns. Father Frank Corbett started off every time he spoke with "I was a catholic priest for 40 yrs before I met CHRIST". Needless to say he pretty much never mentioned Mary or any of the other catholic silliness. And I also witnessed my first healings when he prayed. Pretty much all older denoms have some error or opinions they elevate to doctrine, and most promote stuff straight from hell. The slow erosion of man pleasing and worldliness is evident.
      I suggest anyone who wants to see a good example of a real Christian read "Bonhoeffer: Pastor, Martyr, Prophet, Spy".

      Got stuff to do...GOD bless,

      • http://thechristiansolution.com thechristiansolution

        Glad to know you causually dismiss the FIRST Christian, the woman God approached to deliver his son; a lady whom Jesus, the Son of God, also appeared to after his resurrection -- a dismissal you deem "silliness". Needless to say, I will be waiting on my other post for you to explain how, with all this intensive training in Christ you have, how you causually dismiss the entire message and mission of Christ, in order for you to personally believe that the Jews who deny Christ are the paramount concern of God and that Christians who follow Christ are "silly" who do not also have a paramount concern for the Jesus-denying Jews -- or as you also say it - an ignorant Christian.

  • Stephen Russell

    what denominations do that, all, some a few??
    Name names.
    Aside Catholic Church.

    • http://www.gravesjudo.com Mitch

      Do what specifically?
      See my reply to AjfrenchAllyjayne above...

  • Stephen Russell

    Some Christians voted for Obama in 08 Then.
    I wonder about Carter, Clinton too for those same voters then when running.

    • http://www.gravesjudo.com Mitch

      I personally knew a Baptist minister who was a district head over a bunch of St Louis area So Bap min's. He voted for Clinton both times for econ reasons!?!? I can't say he was not saved but I'd hate to have to explain that to the FATHER when he meets HIM!
      "Sure I vote for the pro-abortion rapist and coke snorter (while Gov of Ark) because it will help my portfolio! ....Really?"

  • http://www.linkedin.com/in/GaryMallast Gary Mallast

    While the mark of the Second Vatican Council was the takeover of the Catholic Church by Socialist authoritarians replacing monarchist authoritarians, the problem of socialist ideology in Christianity--not just the Roman Catholic kind--long predates both Vatican II and even Karl Marx. It is an issue that goes all the way back to the earliest days of the church in the first century. The issue would lay dormant for centuries and then come forth vehemently at critical times like during the rediscovery of Artistotle in the 1200s, the Reformation in the 1500s, and the present socialist push that goes back at least to the 1840s and the days of Charles Fourier, The Viscount de Saint Simon, Robert Owen, Pierre Joseph Proudhon, Victor Considerant, Louis Blanc, and Ferdinand Lasalle.

    At its root lies a heretical "blob theology" attacked as early as the second century by St. Iraneus and an inaccurate, but seemingly sensible, interpretation of parts of The Book of Revelations as calling for violent revolution to establish the millennium.

    A great article on this history is "Karl Marx as Religious Eschatologist" by Murray Rothbard. Whatever else one may think of Dr. Rothbard (who was Jewish) this is an excellent piece of historical research uncovering huge amounts of information that has been put down the Orwellian "memory hole." This article is available on line from the Ludwig von Mises Institute.
    Also important for understanding what is going on in the Roman Church, but even more so in the Episcopalian, some Lutheran synods, and other mainline churches is, of course philosopher Eric Voegelin's "Gnosticism--The Nature of Modernity."

    There are, of course, other articles and books tracing this history in ancient and modern times. The churches have become rotten from within and reform and restoration is needed if Christianity is to face off both the socialist and Islamist challenges.

  • samekindunblind

    Christian, Muslim, Jewish - all are plagued by extremists who are eager to kill or die arguing over whose fairy tale is best. You all sound like adolescents debating Harry Potter or the Twilight series - only the adolescents realize it's just pretend, and ultimately aren't willing to kill on behalf of their debate. As much as all religious zealots hate each other, they are quite alike in their limited worldviews. There is very little conceptual difference between the Taliban and the Christian Right. You agree on pretty much everything except which is the correct magic book. All religions possess the same potential danger, because they all convince to people to surrender rational thought in favor of superstition, and they all convince people that their invisible magical world is more important than life itself.

    • kilt1iron

      How would you describe your purpose on this planet?

      • samekindunblind

        Personally, my purpose is to raise happy, well-adjusted children, to do my tiny part to better the human condition, to do my tiny part to advance our understanding of life, the world, and the universe around us (because I believe it contributes to bettering the human condition), to stand up to oppression and ignorance (because I believe they contribute to worsening the human condition), and to share love, support, and experiences with people I know and love. I believe in helping others and doing the right thing for these reasons, not because an ancient book of middle eastern writings commands that I should (those same books, by the way, include lots of stuff that does not contribute to bettering the human condition), and certainly not because I have been threatened with hell.

        Impersonally, I am humble enough to accept that I am not what the entire universe is all about, nor does the most powerful force in the universe fret over my every thought and action. I suspect that I will temporarily participate in the ecology of the planet and then my molecules will live on in the metabolic cycles of future living things. In the sense that we are made of matter and matter is never destroyed (only recycled) we will indeed all live forever.

        Thank you for being curious and open-minded enough to ask. How would you describe your purpose?

  • RIpete

    Root, hog or die.

  • Gus Gianello

    Dear Samekindunblind

    Ignore the rhetoric, the insults, and the fiery talk. I will just say this. I noticed several things in your post. 1. Abusive ad hominems. You were abusive-- which puts you on the same level as everyone else. 2. You were proclaiming your stance. You are a materialistic atheist that is certain there is no revelation from a living God. That is your religion. You have NO certainty about the future immediate or remote. Your evangelistic fervor is apparent. Please don't masquerade as logical, rational atheistic and absolutist. 3. Your use of absolute moral values. Your language includes words such good, contributing, etc. I challenge you to demonstrate how one who does not believe in universals can pursue the "summum bonum" of doing good and contributing to the great chain of being. In Disney vernacular " the circle of life". If one (or another) of these middle eastern fairy tales is not the revelation of a transcendent being you have no certitude. As Karl Popper and Bertrand Russell have demonstrated science does not reveal knowledge, and has no certainty. All it can do is estimate probability. Therefore, the only good thing you can do logically is contribute to your local ecosphere voluntarily. Even then you might be considered more of a pollutant. You can't possibly know. This is ad hominem argumentation but certainly not abusive. It is also a reductio ad absurdum which I hope you will consider. As to Atheism and agnosticism "caveat emptor" and by all mean "carpe diem"

    Dr. Gus Gianello
    [email protected]

    • samekindunblind

      You have some valid points and some misunderstandings, and I hope to have time later today to reply to your comment. I am just pleased to have someone cite Karl Popper in their argument, as opposed to Karl Marx.

    • samekindunblind

      Thanks for your comments. I will address them as best I can as you present them.

      1.Although nothing in the comment I think you are addressing is ad hominem – not a personal attack on an individual – I am certainly guilty of that in other posts, so I will accept that criticism.

      2.I can accept that my stance is materialist in that explanation is sought among the variation in observable phenomena, but not necessarily atheist. Atheism implies a certainty that I’m not sure I agree with. If with technological advances we eventually observe something that indicates the existence of supernatural power, I would like to think I would be open to it. That stance – even if it were strictly atheist – is not in any way religious, however. Not accepting the evidence for Bigfoot is not a religion, either. The difference is, it is not based on any revelations, any supernatural authority, or any sacred writings. It is based upon empirical observations. If religions were based solely on empirical observations there would be very few believers indeed.

      3.Despite your claims, I never made reference to any universals or absolutes. As for what I believe to be “good,” I made it clear that it is personal not absolute, and I base that on how something affects others. While to me it is “good” to provide food for someone, I am certain that a cow (if capable of abstract thought) would consider the killing, butchering, and eating of its flesh quite evil indeed. One strong argument for our instinct to be “good” is that we treat preferentially those individuals that we are most closely related to genetically. Culture and cooperation are means by which we adapt to our environment, and thus being preferential or “good” to each other has been preferred by natural selection. This potentially explains why we prioritize family over friends, fellow citizens over foreigners, our own”tribe” over another, and for that matter why we are willing to stomp on an ant, but never a puppy.
      Science is without a doubt based upon probability, and I have no problem with that whatsoever. I actually consider that a far more robust way of learning about the universe than insisting upon infallible certainty concerning things which one has no way of knowing. It may not be "impossible" that some magic being is reading all of our minds simultaneously, but based on what we can actually know with any confidence, the probability is ridiculously small. There is not an equal probability that the God of Abraham exists or does not (one of these is very specific, and one consists of every other conceivable possibility). Just as Bertrand Russell points out, it cannot be disproved that there is a teapot orbiting Mars, and there either is or isn’t, but that doesn’t make the probability 50/50. The probability of the teapot is vanishingly small.

      • samekindunblind

        PS - the "great chain of being" is in no way synonymous with ecology (nor are Walt Disney movies for that matter). The great chain of being is a traditional Christian concept of the hierarchy of life as decreed by God. It conspicuously places white Europeans closer to God than other humans and animals. Surely a religious scholar should be aware of that.

      • Fanofthefounders

        So you lean toward a creator, just not the God of the Bible?

        • samekindunblind

          Not particularly. I think our minds tend toward assigning agency to anything we can't understand, so it's not surprising that when we can't comprehend something we fall back on the idea that a huge invisible being made it happen magically. It's probably the same tendency that led the Greeks to imagine that the world was held in place by Atlas and that the sun was pulled across the sky by a chariot. It's not surprising, but it's not very satisfying either. To argue that the universe is too improbably complex to exist without a creator, leads to the fact that the creator would have to be even more complex, and thus even more improbable.

  • http://impeachobamacampaign.com Raymond

    Too Many Christians are Socialists
    Written on DECEMBER 6, 2011 by BONASERA

    It's very clear that Bonasera doesn't understand God's Word.

    Additionally, God's Word makes it clear who's a real Christian and who's
    a fake...

  • http://impeachobamacampaign.com Raymond

    Once again this website is blocking the truth...........

  • SwampFox2U

    The new testament advocates Christians are to accept being Governed and to participate in governing affairs. It does not teach Socialism is evil anymore than Capitalism. How we are governed is up to us and the issue is are we governed by ungodly evil men or do Christians belly up to the political process and bring about a just and equitable governing process. Advocates of strong central governments are in both parties but it seems those wishing to eliminate Christian voices from the process tend to concentrate in the Democrats congregration.
    Capitalism as an economic system is not a governing system but those with excessive wealth tend to buy off those in governing positions to create policies enhancing their wealth regardless of party affilation.
    After all the hand wringing Christians need to be in the business of governing in a just and equatible fashion so all can have access to a good wages,good jobs and a just legal system.

  • TedRWeiland

    Too many Christians are Constitutionalists. We have socialism because the framers ignored Yahweh's moral, civil, and economic laws when framing the Constitution. For the same reason, the United States Constitutional Republic has legalized infanticide, sodomy, and number of other abominations. None of these things would exist today had the framers actually created a Biblical document.

    • TedRWeiland

      Find out how much you really know about the Constitution as compared to Yahweh's moral law (His commandments, statutes, and judgments). Take our Constitution Survey (http://www.missiontoisrael.org/constitutionsurvey/constitutionsurvey.php) and receive a free copy of the "Primer" (an 85 page book, normally $7 plus shipping) of "Bible Law vs. the United States Constitution: The Christian Perspective."

  • Shira Israel-Levin

    It is true that people should look to the Church. Though
    Scripture says God meets people's needs according to His
    riches and glory through Christ Jesus. Phillipians 4:19. People are those who are to be Jesus' hands and feet helping
    the poor. I myself since being unemployed as of Nov. 16, 2010 have received aid from time to time from people of faith. It's not that I haven't been making the effort to get
    another job. I work hard daily in efforts to get a job which
    has so far been easier said than done.

  • Doug

    Christ was a liberal ... Read your bible ... Empty your heart of all that hate and you will know truth ...

    • Fanofthefounders

      "Christ was a liberal"? Where did Christ advocate stealing?