Does Europe Show Us a Future of Secession?

Soon after the US Presidential election, people in forty-nine out of fifty states started petitions to the White House to secede from the union.  Arguably, appealing to a central authority for permission to leave may miss the point of what it means to secede. Still, it is significant that appeals strongly enough to over a half million Americans that they have signed a petition for their state. Yet, it is hard to know how to predict the future from such an event.

But, even if there were no petitions, there are other significant trends that point to the possibility of eventual disunion. While the United States is heading toward “the fiscal cliff”—which is actually just another step down in a cascading series of economic problems facing the country—Europe has gone well over the edge of one of their own economic drop-offs and is speeding toward many more.

When Americans think of secession and Europe, the most common idea is that nations like Greece, Spain, or Italy will have to leave the European Union. It is simply a fact that, despite what European politicians like to say, one or more of these nations is going to have to separate and rebuild its economy with its own currency.

But the forces for secession go far deeper than European nation-states leaving the EU. There are regions inside the nations where sizable numbers of the population want to be free of the burden of the rest of the country. As I write this Sunday night, the Catalonians, in Spain, are finishing up their regional elections. According to the Wall Street Journal, Catalonia is “Spain's top exporting region and highest-taxpaying one.” According to exit polls, parties favoring secession from Spain or at least allowing Catalonians the freedom to vote on whether or not to remain Spanish, won two-thirds of the voters.

So the problems in the EU are not just indebted countries v. less indebted countries. There are also more productive regions of countries who are tired of being bound by chains of nationality with regions that demand their support. Catalonia is not the only one:

“Italy’s Venice is also making noises about independence.  Separately, but similarly, Bavaria, Germany's economic powerhouse of a state, which was helped previously by substantial transfers, now argues that it is tired of subsidizing other German states and wants to modify the current system.”

There are many who oppose these movements, including the ones who report on them. They point out that if Catalonia became its own nation that it would not automatically have EU membership. But why would it want to be strapped to that sinking ship? And if Catalonia wanted to belong to the EU, what would make them hesitate to bring in the healthiest economy in the area?

Eventually, as I have argued in the past, California or Illinois or some other unsustainable Liberal state will demand a bailout. Healthy states are going to oppose this. It amounts to taxation without representation since no on e in the bailing states was able to vote for the legislatures in the states demanding a bailout. By the time that happens, I suspect we will already have seen the breakup of all or part of the EU and probably witnessed the fragmentation of an older European nation or two. These precedents overseas will produce a sea change in the mind of Americans.

The lesson I learn from what is happening is that it would be wrong to get hasty. If God wants the US to last, so be it. But if secession is coming, it will come as an economic necessity, not simply a political desire. It will come from Federal financial collapse. Petitions are probably not all that important a factor either way.


  • Screeminmeeme

    United we stand. Divided we fall.

    • DWinch

      A divided nation is what obama has wanted all along and in that respect, he has been a successful president.

      • emerutil

        Overwhelmingly successful!

      • Ruggedlark

        Yes. He's succeeded in the failure of America as a country of "the melting pot"..

        He's brought back not only race wars, but wealth wars. And, it won't be wealth we'll be fighting over, it will be a can of beans. The lamb in the field. The bull in your pasture with your cows.

        We are in for a real war.

        Thanks to the Emperor wearing no clothes (and has no desire to see our country survive as a Representative Republic)...

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Donna-Fallis/1173604605 Donna Fallis

      The problem is that the nation is already divided and we are falling.

    • LiveFree1200cc

      I fear the only way we will survive is to separate ourselves from the Federal leaches that are bringing the whole thing crashing down. How long can we keep spending twice what we collect in tax revenue? The problem is not that we aren't taxed enough - the problem is that we spend too much!

    • Ruggedlark

      We are not longer united. Its obvious.

  • Doug Roorda

    Yup.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Steven-Mark-Pilling/662233082 Steven Mark Pilling

    You've touched on a number of the points I've been making, Mr Horne. A lot of Texans are coming around to the idea for the reasons you've stated and more. My own opinion is that Texas must take the lead among the free, heartland states in the question of state sovereignty under the Bill of Rights, thus rejecting federal laws, mandates and bureaucracies that are patently contrary to the letter and spirit of the Constitution. The Constitution itself- which defines the free union- is key. If it comes to a secession, it must be on the basis of those states which choose to remain constitutional and those who decide to be provinces under an unconstitutional (and thus despotic) federal government. As you say, a severe economic downturn or outright collapse will be the decisive event. In my opinion, this is exactly what the Obamanist regime is engineering as their excuse for the subjugation of the states and remaking of America into a controlled society. Therefore, it is vital that the free states act for sovereignty before this occurs... or have their infrastructure in place when it does. But whatever happens, it won't be pretty. The "blue" states and the feds will know that they can't survive without the prosperity of the homeland states to draw from, as their base states are already economic basket cases. The deciding factor in this will be which side can best enforce their integrity through organization, determination and potential military power. Obama has already shown on many occasions his fear and dislike of the U.S. Armed Forces. I pray it's with good reason.

    • aryton senna

      Claro que si!

      ret expat MD: NBME; ABIM; ABNM; ABR w/spec comp NR and 45+ years in medicine

      fmr LCDR MC USNR NUKE

    • fatman45

      Well said! I believe that is what the current "purge" of top-level generals and the CIA director is in preparation for. Obama cannot afford to have military leaders who might oppose him when he seizes power after his engineered economic collapse!

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dan-Williams/100000740775101 Dan Williams

      Me too!
      Texas Secession Petitioner #24,062.

    • Al

      Too bad that all successionists can't move to Texas.

  • Beepster

    More than wanting to secede from the Union, most states just want to get rid of the moochers and their reps in Congress, along with the profiteers in DC. If the gov'ment can't be trusted, it should secede or get kicked out!! Leave the states that sustain themselves alone.

  • aryton senna

    I voted with my feet and wallet in 2003.

    The USA, under these idiot politicians, is history!

    ret expat MD

  • ltbl123

    Texas the eyes of America are upon you.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Donna-Fallis/1173604605 Donna Fallis

    Mark Steyn in "After America" predicted that secession would be the only way to keep the solvent states from crashing and being drug down by those like California, in the event that the morons managed to put Obama back in the oval office. The book was published in 2010...we're just catching up to the good sense of getting out while we still can.

  • Ed

    The United States would do well if it seceded from the Democratic Party.

    • LiveFree1200cc

      Thinking the Republicans have a different agenda is your first mistake. Both parties are systematically destroying this once great nation. Both parties are complicit in allowing Odumbo to usurp Executive powers not granted to him by our Constitution.

      • Al

        "in't a dime's worth of difference between them." George Wallace. Now there was a REAL Democrat, Ed.

  • emerutil

    The takers outnumber the producers. This is the causal effect. It is as simple as that!

  • Oops!

    Another example of pure idiocy in this blog. This is NOT Europe, and secession will NOT happen, though I wish the red states would try it. Every one of them gets back considerably more revenue from the federal government than they pay in taxes. Check it out! In fact, the red states are the real "moochers", the least educated, with the most divorces, the most dropouts, the worst alcoholism, the worst spousal abuse, and the highest percentages of out-of-wedlock children. Check it out! Oh, and I forgot to mention...the most intense bigotry and hatred.

    • Dasrge

      Just another troll using BS fact checks from conservative hate sites. I looked at some of your "data" and found that it is all flowing from conservative hate sites like "Democrats for Progress", the New York Times and the Democratic Underground...just to name a few. You lib trolls will say anything to disassociate yourselves from truth. Everyone of your talking points is associated with mostly uneducated welfare recipients in city communities...like the African-American women with 15 kids, 2 birth daddies, no job telling the world that "someone's gonna pay for my kids". Check the debacles you libs call cities before you blame conservative states. You'll find that most of those cities are controlled by deadbeat liberals like yourself with high unemployment and record numbers on welfare and food stamps thanks to your head moocher, Obubba. Go trolling somewhere else and keep your conservative bigotry to yourself. You guys spread more hate than any other group I know.

    • KarenWI

      If what you say is true, then you should be happy that the 'moocher states' leave and then folks like you can be left with what you think are the prosperous states, that would suit me just fine!

    • 1F@ncynnc

      Myself hailing from the extreme blue state of California, I believe Oops!, you have described my idiotic state to a tea. And we are 47% hispanic & growing. So, what does your statement really say about education & racism, as Calif. ranks at the bottom in education? Again, an extreme blue state. Oops! Your bloviating just fell apart, Oops!

    • Ruggedlark

      Check what out?

      Propaganda? Least educated. (are you saying that country folks are stupid?). Most divorces? Ok. Like its a real statistic relevant to politics-well, maybe if you are Clinton...And Spousal abuse? Is that statistically relatable to Conservatism? Somehow? And, just WHERE is the highest percentage of out of wedlock children? (Thankfully, they aren't being ABORTED, even tho...)Bigotry and Hatred.

      Gee. Bigotry and Hatred. Spewing forth from the Democratic Party, daily. Thank You.

  • 820 REDHORSE

    When you see countries like france protesting mooslut invasions and others in socialist EU wanting to seccede, this should sound the alarm in the U.S.! With the petitions floatin around and then this with happening in europe , probably means the NWO/UN deal has been realized by others, and the sheeyat will be hittin the fan in the near future. Hell, they been dealin with socialist B.S. longer than we have, and they're just now figuring that the train has wrecked ! I hope we act before its too late,if it isn't already.

  • JennieWalsh

    I surely hope that Big Brother Government is on the way OUT, PERMANENTLY!

    • Ruggedlark

      Be careful what you wish for.

      Read "One Second After" by Wm. Forschten. (Sp?)

  • http://www.missiontoisrael.org/ Ted R. Weiland

    Ultimately, secession will not accomplish anything UNLESS such an effort is founded upon Yahweh's immutable morality as codified in His perfect law (Psalm 19:7-11), establishing government of, by, and for Yahweh rather than of, by, and for a whimsical people, based upon their fickle edicts. Otherwise, we just end up where we find ourselves today or worse.

    For more concerning how Yahweh's moral law applies today, read "Law and Kingdom: Their Relevance Under the New Covenant" at http://www.bibleversusconstitution.org/law-kingdomFrame.html.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Geoffrey-Eustis-Jr/519502855 Geoffrey Eustis Jr.

      You protestant bible-beaters are the reason moderates think we're insane and we won't win another election unless we can distance ourselves from you crackers. We had important fiscal issues to deal with but you crackers wanted to talk about abortion and gay marriage instead. Sorry, you old republicans have dropped the ball. How about getting the hell out of our way so that generation X might save American liberty and independance for the next generation. No more spreading new testament until we spread the word of the U.S. Constitution or you wont have a congregation to preach to.

      • http://www.missiontoisrael.org/ Ted R. Weiland

        There's only One with whom I'm concerned about being identified as insane--and it ain't you Geoffrey, nor the so-called moderates, liberals, or conservatives. The day WILL COME when that's your concern as well.

        As for you sacred Constitution, sorry, but it and its framers' rejection of Yahweh's morality as codified in His perfect law and altogether righteous judgments (Psalm 19:7-11) is the reason we've lost our liberty and independence and why America presently finds herself teetering on the precipice of moral destitution and government destruction.

        • http://www.farnumfamily.org/ Norm Farnum

          Amen!

          God Send Us Men

          This is one of our favorite song -- really a prayer for our nation, and more poignant today than it was over 100 years ago!

          Lyrics written 1909 by Frederick J. Gillman (1866-1949)

          God send us men whose aim 'twill be
          Not to defend some ancient creed,
          But to live out the laws of Christ
          In every thought and word and deed.

          God send us men alert and quick
          His lofty precepts to translate,
          Until the laws of Christ become
          The laws and habits of the state.

          God send us men of steadfast will,
          Patient, courageous, strong and true,
          With vision clear and mind equipped
          His will to learn, his work to do.

          God send us men with hearts ablaze,
          All truth to love, all wrong to hate;
          These are the patriots nations need;
          These are the bulwarks of the state.

      • Ruggedlark

        You've thrown lots of stones here, Geoffrey.
        "Protestant bible beaters"...."Crackers", and how we wanted to talk about abortion and gay marriage. I don't think we were paying attention to the same election issues, frankly.

        Generation X? Really? Don't even bother. Our generation cares not for what is going on in politics. Its "dancing with the stars", and "big brother" and "why am I not famous, but everyone else is?"..

        So take your athiestic butt out of the conversation. K? And quit calling us white people crackers-are you white? Oh, and you hate being white? Or, you are black, but post a white guy's pic on your profile. Weird. But, you are an athiest. Right?

      • http://www.facebook.com/david.hodges.5070 David Hodges

        "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."--Luke 19: 27

  • going to the big D

    God bless the great country of Texas

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dan-Williams/100000740775101 Dan Williams

    Amen, brother Ben!
    Everyone should petition their state's Secretary of State to get a referendum on the next ballot to see how many want to secede. Time for a grass roots movement as soon as the US Dollar collapses under the weight of the Federal debt. Why wait?

  • jsmithcsa

    Don't forget Belgium! There was a prank a few years ago that the Flemings had had enough and seceded -- it was so believable that it caught on. Scotland is also working on seceding from the UK. I hadn't heard the one about Bavaria. It has been done recently as well -- Czechoslovakia worked out an amicable divorce into the Czech Republic and Slovakia.

  • 1F@ncynnc

    Where there's a will there's a way! That's the American pioneer spirit. The left live their lives by the creed "any behavior is ok as long as it's a means to the desired end". Straight out of the left's playbook by Saul Alinsky, "Rules for Radicals". I think it's time the right adopts some of ol' Saul's methods & fight fire w/ fire!

  • http://www.survivingurbancrisis.com/ Silas Longshot

    Petitions are indeed quite pointless, other than for citizens to express frustration. And, we got boatloads of frustration!

    But you're correct, the caca is going to hit the fan at some point. The failing lib states will indeed be whining for bailouts for their own stupidity, corruption and utter failure. Which state will be the first to tell the lib states to pound sand? Texas, maybe. Known as a republic since it's inception, Texas may well be the trend setter for secession. Hope they welcome skilled labor immigrants, like me!

  • regulus30

    obamani66er nation;;;;;;versus we the people............hello Abraham Lincoln; obama could not polish the man's boots;;DO NOT GO THERE..........

  • A. CORNIVORE

    Texas must secede and take the Constitution with it to Protect and Preserve it for all who wish to Restore the Republic.
    We do not want the frightening 'NEW WORLD' of hopeless change.

  • Tomtom

    It would be much easier to just JAIL Obama for his Treasonist acts !!!