Debate, Shmebate: California Politicians Churning Out Anti-Gun Laws

Politicians in California, which already has the strictest gun-control laws in the country, are not hesitating to use Friday's Connecticut school massacre to pile on even more pointless restrictions.

According to Democrat Assemblyman Roger Dickinson, it's not the number of anti-gun laws that's important (never enough!), but the fact that there are still holes that need plugging.

California already investigates and licenses gun dealers and buyers, requires a waiting period and background check, demands registration of guns including rifles, prohibits carrying weapons either concealed or publicly, restricts types of ammo and magazine capacity, and generally behaves like an overbearing nanny in any aspect of gun ownership.

Faux-publican state Sen. Ted Gaines on Tuesday proposed a law to permanently eliminate the rights of someone who's been determined "mentally ill" to own a gun. Current state law temporarily removes gun-ownership rights from some mentally ill patients, but those people can petition to have their rights restored once they have been treated.

"Although California has the toughest gun laws in the nation, there is a loophole that must be closed," Gaines wrote in a press release.

Democrat state Sen. Leland Yee on Tuesday said he would re-introduce previously rejected legislation banning rapid-loading devices.

Democrat Sen. Kevin de León proposed legislation that would require a $50 permit and annual background check just to buy ammunition.

"For too long, too much ground has been ceded in this debate about reasonable gun and ammunition control," he said. "We will not capitulate any longer. I, for one, have had it."

De Leon failed to explain how the new laws would stop criminals or crazy people from shooting up a school, but I've been getting the feeling that actually preventing massacres is not really on the anti-gun agenda in California or federally.

What it's all about of course is control. Why else would you want to take away a person's right to defend himself unless you didn't want him defending himself against you?

Like all bullies, the anti-gun zealots' Achilles' heel is their personal fear, which dominates their thinking. If gun owners stick together, the rats will crawl back into their holes.




  • jag

    California is broke and sliding into oblivion. I suspect the new laws are more for racking in a few coins than keeping the populous safe.

  • DontTreadOnMe11

    Why would any decent person want to live in that hellhole state?

    • Screeminmeeme

      Good question. I think that the specie, homo sapien decentius, is now extinct in the Pacific Coast state of Californication. .

      • Devon Sanchez

        You think it is but you would be wrong with such a blanket assertion.

      • Robert W Velon

        It is called Cacafornia, "The People's Republic"... Comrade Brown and the rest of the liitle commies will never satisfied until they have banned all weapons..

    • WhoIsDecent

      Why would any decent person want to come to this hellhole website?

      • MovingToNevada

        Then leave.

        • WhoIsDecent

          Start being decent.

        • MovingToNevada

          Implying I'm not? Prove it.

        • WhoIsDecent

          You're here.

      • MontieR

        If this site is such a hell hole. Return to your troll heaven huff po.

        • WhoIsDecent

          That one is a hellhole too, they just have different kinds of lunatics there.

    • Devon Sanchez

      Yes, it most likely has the worst laws on the books and some of the highest taxes in the country. But it still remains to be as beautiful as ever. It is where I was born and raised, and I hope some day in my future it will be decent enough to settle and raise a family in.

      • DontTreadOnMe11

        Beauty doesn't pay the bills. Besides, there are many beautiful areas of the country that cost less.

        • Devon Sanchez

          You should tell models that beauty does not pay. Beside that point, my bills are being paid just fine. True, there are many beautiful places in the country that cost less. But there are many more beautiful places in the world that cost way less. Should I move emigrate from the USA based solely on economic freedom? Maybe, and I am considering it. But this still does not retract my previous statement that, "I hope some day in my future it (California) will be decent enough to settle and raise a family in."

        • DontTreadOnMe11

          I agree, I hope too, that California returns to its previous glory. I just don't see that happening for a long time. Good luck.

        • Devon Sanchez

          Thank you. I hope that every state of the United States survives the coming world-wide economic collapse, especially without having to leave the union. But I am not optimistic at all because I understand American politics all too well.

        • The Federal Farmer

          None of us should be afraid to leave the union.

        • Devon Sanchez

          There will be real internal struggle. And with promises of threat to succeed, federal martial law will be imposed, postponing of individual rights and war. Now, I do fear this as every American should, right of wrong.

        • The Federal Farmer

          If martial law is instituted that means the constitution and all federal "laws" are suspended. It will be THE wake-up call patriotic Americans need to right what's wrong.

        • Hagrid

          All the beauty in the world won't offset the oppression of a Government hellbent on stripping you and all you know of the inalienable rights our forefathers have fought for all in the name of "for your own good". Its time that individuals are held accountable for their actions and not the tools they use. Sick and twisted minds cannot be legislated away. Far too many people who need treatment for mental illness are being turned loose into society. Our social norms now accept violence in all forms of media as "entertainment" with open arms and wallets, yet when it actually happens with real bullets resulting in real blood, the very liberal cowards (media, movies, video games, TV, empty talking heads, and ignorant politicians) all throw up their collective arms and cry " take away the guns!".
          You are right, Devon, California is a beautiful place. I hope the good people there wake up and remove the cancer that has been elected into office. Best of luck.

        • Devon Sanchez

          Thanks. But it will succumb to complete failure along with the rest of America such as Detroit has. There will be market corrections throughout next year. I do not know when the global fiscal collapse will ensue but it will happen within the next few years. You can bet gold and silver on that.

        • notosharia

          Right now CA is doomed because there are Demos. in most of the offices. With people like Boxer,Feinstein Pelosi controlling things and a populace that is so liberally -stupid that elects them our state will continue on its downward trend. COMMON SENSE is not part of living here. When they tax to the hilt and drive out businesses you can expect it to fail.

        • The Federal Farmer

          Funny how some people think there's a difference between economic freedom and *regular* freedom.

        • Devon Sanchez

          Funny how economic freedom is the basis of real freedom.

        • The Federal Farmer


        • Kent2012

          right after kenyan boy bails out the failing blue states with cash stolen from all. oh wait just a minute from the 53%

        • REM1875

          How true, remember any leftist failure is simple because the right people (themselves) were not in control and that they simply did not have enough money. How much money ? We just dont know because they have never been succesful but with conservative states forced to dump their cash into liberal states this time they are sure against all odds and past experience that time it will be a smashing success.

    • Tomk777

      Trapped like rats, house value is in the toilet, owe more than its worth, even though I had over 50% equity at the peak. Aged parents to care for, too old for major move. There are plenty of people who like me will bolt as soon as retirement comes.

      • cayuga33

        will you have a retirement?

    • Another Guest

      I wont even visit that place on vacation.Don't want those greedy gun haters to get my money.

    • LeSellers

      All of our seven children and their families as well as we, ourselves, have long since left.

      It looks as if California will join Illinois as a shooting gallery. ('Course, Illinois just had its loonie gun laws overturned. But have no fear, they'll just re-write them. Thugislatures don't change.)

      Mr. O'bama, will there ever be any Jobs?

  • Screeminmeeme

    It's more of the left's inexplicable unwillingness to admit that the responsibility for wicked deeds in this world lies with the person who committed them and not with the inanimate objects in his hands.

    • LeftOfRight

      There you go again being upset about a direction. Do you talk like this in the real world?

      • Screeminmeeme


        • jag

          Geaux Gurl!

        • cyber_hackster

          I do also

      • AksBarackwards

        LOL! What direction?

  • MovingToNevada

    The agenda in the CA legislature is to make purchasing firearms/ammo as difficult and annoying as possible for law abiding citizens. They simply HATE firearms. These phony laws are designed to discourage people, not actually prevent any crimes.

    • Tomk777

      They don't hate ALL firearms, the police and BATF in the state are arming themselves with every conceivable weapon, tanks, grenade launchers, full auto M16's, 50 cal 's, hand guns, rifles, shotguns, tear gas, masks, body armor, UAV's, thermal scopes, you name it, there buying it and in HUGE numbers, and these same politicians are pushing for more lax laws for criminals that use guns to commit crime, they want to eliminate three strikes, lower the amount of time served for armed robbery, murder, and other violent crime, it's only guns in the hands of law abiding civilians that they hate. This group more than any other, stands in their way of a vision of a citizenry, totally dependent and controlled by the elitist electorate, who will answer to no one but the government labor union, IE the Communist Party.

      • ToadStool Manor

        You said the KEY word..... CONTROL! That is what it's all about.

      • BigUgly666

        In order for a "law" to actually be "LAW", it must apply equally to all.

        How is that you people in California have allowed your SERVANTS to tell you MASTERS what you can and cannot do. There is no provision under LAW for any "law enforcement" personally to breach the laws governing the rest of the people - any "edict" that says otherwise in NOT LAWFUL.

    • cyber_hackster

      Copy Chicago law --- Works for them, huh?

      • MovingToNevada

        Probably worse than Chicago. Yes, works wonderfully (eyeroll).

  • dad666

    Let Cal have a ball they are destroying the state with the same policies that are destroying this nation. Maybe all the nut jobs will shoot up california and we can all breath a little easier.

  • Richard Hayes

    When politicians, movie stars and other "VIPs" give up their armed guards and walk around unarmed, maybe I will listen, probably not though.

  • simpletony1

    I'm certainly glad we just moved to an American state, Arizona. Screw California and everything they do

    • wminaz

      Four decades ago I got out of the service and had job offers in Cal and Az. I chose Az and have never regretted it. Now Cal is BK and Az balances it budget annually. It's as much a mindset as anything else. Keep gov't under our thumb not the other way around. This whole debate reminds me I need to pick up some more ammo.

  • David Bolton

    This article is exactly on target!

  • Russ Fowler

    Send all the wako's to California. They are love there.

  • 2War Abn Vet

    California is a prime example of what the Founders warned us about.

    “A free people ought not only be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” - George Washington

    • PennJim

      "....and disciplined....."

      • LeSellers

        Like "well regulated", disciplined meant "well trained".

        The II amendment not only protects our individual right to keep and bear, it requires that we form the militia. The militia is "necessary for the security of a free state". We clamor for the right, and ignore the responsibility. It's a little hypocritical, donchathin?

        Mr. O'bama, will there ever be any Jobs?

        • PennJim

          To me, being 'disciplined' also includes civility, orderliness, and respect of others. Maybe the founders didn't intend that here, but it wouldn't hurt.

        • GetOutOfTheBubble

          One of few comments on this site I'm willing to entirely agree with, pardoning that nonsense footer you always have.

        • LeSellers

          Why "nonsense"?

          I really want to know what O'bama is going to do to assure that we have the Jobs USmerica needs so we do not need so much welfare and so on.

          BTW, I know that he, nor any other politician or bureaucrat can create a real job. But (assuming they actually want us to have jobs), they could get out of the way and let the fee market create the wealth that requires Jobs. They, however, as communists, can't afford to do that.

          Mr. O'bama, will there ever be any Jobs?

  • Goldie

    Chinese Join Dems? Hitler would of joined the Dems if he had only known.

  • IamaproudAmerican

    The criminals will have enough guns to kill each other and innocent victims and the decent citizens will be vulnerable. When will they address taking away guns from criminals and punishing repeat offenders?

  • TaterSalad

    People in the United States are what we call LIP's or Low Informed People. Most belong to the democratic Party but they do not have a "lock" on it as it shows but they do have a majority it would seem.

  • MovingToNevada

    The state of CA is now governed by mob rule. The Democrat legislature now has their supermajority, and that will also allow for overriding Brown's vetoes. Every level of the state government is ruled by Democrats. So, now they have the power to tax, tax, and tax more, to rewrite anything they don't like (you know, Prop 13), and to slam any and all laws they deem are "needed" down the throats of citizens in this nanny pathetic state. So, yeah, they will pass these nonsense regulations and the only thing that can be done is to challenge them in court.

  • sargent rock

    Don't expect to hear this on the Communist News Network...

    Armed Citizen Saves Cop’s Life

    Sgt. Steven Means of the Early Police Department in Texas, is one law enforcement officer that is thankful for the Second Amendment right for citizens to bear arms.

    Early Texas with a population of just under 3,000. Back in August of this year, several residents of the Peach House RV Park got into a squabble. Seems one of the residents, 58 year old Charles Conner took issue to his neighbors’ dogs doing their business in his

    On that hot summer day, Conner got into an argument with 58 year old David House, one of the dog owners. Conner eventually left the argument and went to his RV only to return with a gun that he used to shoot House dead with.
    Hearing the gun shots, the other dog owner, 53 year old Valentina Calaci ran from her RV screaming. That’s when Conner turned and shot her dead also.

    In his fit of rage, Conner then turned and shot both the dogs that he felt started the whole confrontation.

    Shortly thereafter, Sgt. Means responded to the shots fired call. The moment he got out of his car, Conner opened fire on him and then took cover behind a large tree. Means tried to return fire with his AR-15, but Conner had the better position.

    Hearing all the gunfire outside, another resident of the RV park, Vic Stacy, looked to see what was happening. When he saw that Conner had the better position, he felt that the officer’s life was in jeopardy. Having a clear side view, he decided he needed to help the officer, so he took a shot from his vantage point and hit Conner in the thigh. Although wounded, Conner was not giving up, so Stacy shot him again. Sgt. Means was also able to get some shots off and eventually Conner was killed and the officer’s life was

    After other officers arrived at the scene and investigated what happened, they deemed Stacy to be the hero. Brown County Sheriff Booby Grubbs commented, saying:

    “The citizen that fired these shots did a tremendous job out there. Had he not had a gun and the presence of mind to do this, we don’t know what the outcome would’ve been.”

    This is just one of hundreds of cases where legally armed citizens have used their guns to protect themselves, their families and others. In this case, it was a police officer whose life was saved by an armed citizen.

    Tomorrow, it could be you or one of your loved ones, that is if Obama doesn’t
    steal them all away from us.

    But the liberals would say;

    It is obvious the dogs were the problem, they created this so we must ban dog ownership...

  • Gee

    California, Left Coast Nuts, That's Why I Left after 43 Years, Gangs running Wild. Cheers Semper Fi

  • Jed54

    California needs to slide off into the abyss... this is the craziest, lame, state in the union. Moron actors... should be declared the the largest mental institution in the book of Guiness.

  • Everett

    Who really cares, it is obvious why God created all the earthquake faults along the coastal region of California, he could see in the future what a mess that state would become. They are toast and nothing will pull them back from the doom, so sad.

  • melissasmom

    A person's mentally stability will be decided by compliance.

  • Moose

    Instead of wasting their time on more gun laws, shouldn't they be worrying about their own fiscal cliff?

  • Kreinhe

    And with Cuomo in New York pushing legislation as well, I think it is beyond time that any and all manufacturers of guns, ammunition (looking at you Remington in New York) and any accessory manufactured related to firearms/hunting to finally pull up stakes in those states and move to more friendly pastures elsewhere.

  • Steven Pope

    California is a state run by Obama zombies so what more can you expect. The Democrats who run that state want people to drink the Kool-Aid and follow Obama to gloryland.

    • Combat Veteran Seabee

      You can walk around San Fransisco butt ass naked but you can't have a, "Nativity Scene." What's wrong with this picture?

      • GetOutOfTheBubble

        The part where you're lying. People can have nativity scenes.

  • GWY

    Doesn't seem odd that politicians never want to introduce anti-criminal legislation. The consensus is to disarm law abiding citizens while criminals are allowed all the weapon the wish. The argument that criminals who arm themselves would be breaking the law seems rediculous because breaking the law is what criminals do. It would seem to me that gun control legislation is pro-crime.

    • The Federal Farmer

      6.8 million Americans are former-felons and they have been stripped of their alleged "inalienable" right to defend themselves against present criminals and tyrants. Those criminals who are presently incarcerated should not have a RKBA but all free former criminals should be armed. It is a RIGHT!

  • BigUgly666

    Maybe people in California should start flinging ammunition at this dweeb with a slingshot ..... or is a slingshot considered a "firearm" in California, or, would the "ammunition" itself be considered a "deadly weapon"?

  • Mskyler

    OBAMA Send your Taliban buddies up through California it's safe there they are turning in there guns , but I don't think you have a snowballs chance in hell sending them up through TEXAS

  • Garrey McVicker

    calf. is like new york, they pick the most dumacrated they can. they are the land of the greastest hand outs next to michigan.

  • Loran Carlson

    The definition of a moron-One who prohibits guns and carry laws from it's citizens while allowing it for themselves and their friends. I swear, this state is being controlled by complete idiots.

  • Terry C

    Sen. Gaines, it's already against Federal Law for those who have/have had mental issues to own or possess a firearm. It is also against Federal Law for those who have been convicted of Domestic Abuse (Misd. or Felony) to own or possess a firearm.

  • Garrey McVicker

    if it wasnt guns, bombs, knifts bow &arrow, its rocks and last but not least hands. no, not as fast oh ya, jim jones did it with kool ade are going to not let koolade now for what can be put in it. evil will always be. its be here sence time has begain. and now we are on the down hill to hell whitch obama is sending everyone. hope that change is doing well for all who voted for him.

  • Guest

    Might as well hang a sign on all CA highways going into the state, "Gun Free Zone". Since they've already driven all the money out of the state, and taxed everyone else into oblivion, they don't have much to worry about anyway since no robber in their right mind would go where all the welfare recipients are.

  • The Truth

    "Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."

    - Benjamin Franklin

  • Joanne

    CA is being driven by progressives, their opinion isn't credible. They can't even run their own state.

  • Walt

    Let us mandate that all anti-gun proponents post a sign in their yard saying so. Next year we will come back to this issue and see how many of them still feel this way.

  • QuisPercusit

    Do the words blunt force trauma mean any thing to Californiaians their law makers are in dire need of some

  • Walt

    Take a lesson from Kennesaw, GA.

    The most pro-gun city in the United States – Kennesaw Georgia – where gun ownership is mandatory by city ordinance. It’s not the “Wild West” like some people predicted when it passed a mandatory gun ownership law. Kennesaw “has the lowest crime rate in Cobb County,” one of the most populace counties in Georgia. In fact, from 1982 through 2009, Kennesaw had been nearly murder free with one murder occurring in 2007. Other serious crimes are almost non-existent.

    “The city of Kennesaw was selected by Family Circle magazine as one of the nation’s ‘10 best towns for families.’ The award was aimed at identifying the best communities nationally that combine big-city opportunities with suburban charm, a blend of affordable housing, good jobs, top-rated public schools, wide-open spaces, and less stress.”

    In a 25-year period, New York City has had more than 15,000 murders – 2245 in 1990 alone – while Kennesaw, Georgia, had 1, and it was with a knife.

    When the people have guns the criminals stay away.

  • mudguy1

    They need a yearly background check of all legislators in California to keep the mentally ill from been a legislator.

  • Aaron Freeman

    These idiots have done more to erode personal freedom than any communist could! Trotsky, Lenin, Marx, and Mao would be proud of what the libtards in Sactown have done! It got so bad in CA, I had to leave... And I'm a CA native! I love my home state, but I hate what these CA carpet baggers have done to my home!!! Go back to where you came from, you a$$h0L3$!!! You've already damaged the 6th largest economy in the world, you've all but killed the agriculture of the state, and you've all but chased away businesses from there through overbearing regulations! When will enough be enough for you ID10Ts? I swear, when civil war comes (and, it's all but inevitable should Comrade Barack use executive fiat to institute Federal Gun Control...), I will be heading back home, but not to visit... but as a conquering hero! And believe me, when I mobilise for war, I will show no mercy...

  • terry

    Hey, do these new gun laws require all the liberal actors and actresses to get rid of their guns and body guards? Just wondering...and why does the president deserve protection if I don't?

  • BillboyBaggins

    Let’s take an active roll and help get the word out about this
    petition. Sign the petition at wh dot gov/RzM7 and tell your friends!
    We need to counter the anti gun petitions.

    We petition the Obama administration to: along with Congress, enact
    legislation eliminating gun free zones as an inherent danger to the

    Whereas, there were horrific shootings in Aurora CO, Newtown CT,
    Grundy VA, Greenville MS, Portland OR, Oak Creek WI, and other places
    around the United States;

    Whereas, the common factor in these crimes is that they took place in “gun free” zones;

    Whereas, evil people seek out areas where they know their victims will be unarmed and defenseless;

    Whereas . . .

    (read the rest on line)

    “Gun free” zones must be banned.

    Sorry to keep posting this, but it is not getting the traction it
    needs! Help out and sign ze paper!

  • John Whittington

    Communist California? Imagine that !!!

  • A Real American

    DeLeon, You say you have had it. I, WE have had it with you. Are you an expert on firearms? Are you knowledgeable on the safe use of firearms? You talk BIG, but I don't think you are very smart. You just ramble and ramble about your smart knowledge of firearms and what makes a criminal do what he does! Are you a medical professional? You should go back to Los Angeles (in the state of Northern Mexico) and shut up!
    What are you "AFRAID OF"? I think you should be afraid of "YOU"!

  • sumtinwong

    For a state like California, and all their crazies, you would think the lawmakers would want to arm more responsible citizens?

  • A Real American

    Senator Gaines, I agree and disagree to some point on you legislation on forbiding mental cases after treatment to possibly have access to firearms. I will make up my mind in the future!
    What is this business of being called a"Faux-publican Senator. Just what does that mean?

  • Debbie Black

    California is now a cesspool. 20 - 30 years ago we were still okay. Feinstein & Boxer made sure they broke our state! We have not only become a "welfare state", but a safe haven for all the illegal aliens from Mexico. We are broke, we have been taken over by Mexicans, we are not "sunny" California anymore. We are the biggest cesspool of any state in the union. Thanks to the Democrats that have murdered our state! Take a look at California and what she has become. If you have libs running your government state office, this is what your state will soon become. Take a look at California! We are broke, we are headed for bankruptcy, our state is over-populated with illegal aliens that have taken our jobs, we have a mayor that is a common criminal (Antonio Villaregosa), our schools have been taken over my the Mexicans, you don't see any white kids in the schools from the border all the way up and beyond the Central Valley. Our state is a gonner!

  • lorlan4

    How great!!! The local thugs believe they can go to California and not get in as much trouble as they will here. Happen to know a couple of them and have encouraged them to go West. California has all the answers and we get rid of our problems.

  • lorlan4

    Also, I told them that welfare was very easy to get and the rate was higher in California. I think I told the truth?

  • Breeze

    I cannot wait to get out of this state!

  • Paul

    That's okay, soon only the cops and criminals will have guns and guess what? There are more criminals than cops so where does that it leave California? Soon the politicians will be under the control of the real criminals. Good luck with that, dumb_sses.

  • ProudTeabagger

    To all freedom loving Americans in Kalifornia- Get now before it's too late!

  • jimpeel

    "Faux-publican state Sen. Ted Gaines on Tuesday proposed a law to
    permanently eliminate the rights of someone who’s been determined
    “mentally ill” to own a gun."

    All laws are always taken to their farthest extreme by the authorities. How far will this one go?

    "You were on Ritalin as a sixth grader. You are denied a firearm for life."

    Far fetched? Remember when the R.I.C.O. Act was used against abortion protesters and their cars were confiscated? How many horror stories have you heard about the seizure and forfeiture laws? Remember how the police were stopping Blacks on I-95 and stripping them of their money if they had too much? "Only a drug dealer would be in possession of this much cash." How much is too much? Anything over $1,000 but that can be adjusted down depending on the department's current needs.

  • Redrider

    Mao said true power comes from the barrel of a gun.. Message received thank you I'll keep mine.

  • junkmailbin

    the liberal socialist communisit democrats have a 2/3 voting majority in the legislature, the govenor, sec of state, the Ag etc.

    All gun control measures will pass. the citizens in California actually have no rights anymore.
    The point of closing loopholes is correct. The legislature is dead set on making everything illegal in CA except Gay marriage and drugs.

  • Kent2012

    have nancy and diane been treated?

  • gypsy314

    I feel it for the kids in the schools that have idiots making laws to protect them and knowing gun free zones do nothing less then to say come kill us NO one will stop you. Even worst the parents keep voting these idiots into office.

  • Laurence Almand

    And just WHAT is the exact definition of "mentally ill"? Alleged "mental illness" is a favorite catch-all for politicians that want to eliminate people who disagree with them, an excuse to get them out of the way. So far as Liberal and Socialist politicians are concerned, any person who disagrees with them is mentally ill. This scheme is yet another ploy to disarm the people.

  • Philip K. Eyrich

    If the President is often surrounded by armed men, why do those who support gun control not support an armed man at every school? If it's not safe for kids, the it's also not safe for the President.

  • John Wilch (TSgt, USAF Ret.)

    Folks, if this new law is passed in CA you can expect it eventually showing up in your state. Oh, I forgot you'll be hearing about more shootings because no one (Honest person) will have a weapon to protect their love ones or someone else; ONLY THE CRIMINALS WILL HAVE GUNS AND THE AMMO TO GO WITH THEM.

    US COMBAT VETERAN: Vietnam '68-'69, Door gunner, 1st Cavalry Division (AM).

  • REM1875

    Actually they see nothing wrong with illegals and gangs being armed (Sorry American citizens of any race are not included unless you are a gang member) In typical bizare liberal double think they want "the police" armed as a tool for them to use but are not supportive of individual armed police officers and will never back one up, no matter what. God save the pockets of numerious conservatives who dwell outside urban areas - because they wont and dont want them to save themselves either. And as another fine example of liberal policy- the rules dont apply to them.