Should Christians Pledge Allegiance to the United States’ Flag?

R. C. Sproul, Jr.

Because I wish to answer some likely objections before answering this question, you will likely guess my answer. When the Bible calls us to “pray for the peace of Babylon” (Jer. 29:7) I believe that means we are called to pray for the peace of our nation. When the Bible calls us to pray for our leaders (1 Tim. 2: 1-4) I believe we are called to pray for our leaders. When the Bible calls us to give honor to whom honor is due (Rom. 13:7) I believe we are called to give honor to whom honor is due in our nation. I would add in turn that I believe the providence of God has blessed this nation like no other nation in history. I love what our founding fathers stood for. I love my country, and aspire to be faithful to it. But I do not believe Christians should pledge allegiance to the flag of these United States.

My first concern, as it ought to be with any oath or vow, is with the truth in the oath or vow. I am quite concerned that what the pledge affirms is just not true. First, while I am grateful that our founders designed this country to be ruled by the Constitution, to be ruled by law, this country is not now a Republic. That rule which is supposed to be the law of the land, the Constitution, is routinely and perpetually ignored by both major parties. In like manner the pledge claims we are a nation under God when I fear we are a nation in deepest rebellion against God. We are under Him in reality, but we think ourselves above Him.

Indivisible may be the most troubling word in the whole of the pledge. I have no desire to see the nation divided. We are not expressing here, however, a wish that it will not be divided but a conviction that it cannot be divided. This is, in essence, a claim that the union is immortal, a claim to deity. This nation is most assuredly not indivisible.

The last phrase, I would argue, is also not true. There we claim that ours is a nation where there is liberty and justice for all. Is that true? Are we free to work in the field of our choice, without a license from the state? Are we at liberty to build a shed in our back yard, without getting a permit from the state? Are we free to not purchase health insurance for our employees? Are we free to keep the fruits of our labor?

My second concern, however, ties together the last and the first phrases. Does the flag stand for, represent those founding virtues, or does it now represent a nation where every year over a million of our tiniest citizens are not just denied liberty and justice, but life itself? Does not that flag represent both a state which is pledged to protect the “right” to murder the unborn, and does it not represent the citizens of that nation who avail themselves of that right over 3000 times each day?

I love my country. But I cannot pretend that my country is something that it no longer is. I love my country, but I fear the judgment of God. I love my country, but I weep for it. I love my country, and what it once was. But I am ashamed of what it has become. The truth of the matter, however, is that were we what we once were, were we what I hope and labor that we will be again, I still could not in good conscience pledge my allegiance. Because I look for that city whose builder and maker is God. I love my country, but because I, by His grace, have been made a part of that royal priesthood, my commitment is to that holy nation (I Peter 2:9). I love my country, but my allegiance, my loyalty is to Jesus Christ.

Dr. R.C. Sproul Jr. is a graduate of Reformed Theological Seminary and Grove City College. He received his Doctorate of Ministry in 2001 and is Founder, Chairman and Teacher of Highlands Ministries.


  • Screeminmeeme

    To each his own according to his own conscience.

    As a Christian, when I pledge allegiance to the America flag, it is an acknowledgment of the those unsurpassed ideals that the flag represents, a salute to all who have shed their blood, sweat and tears to advance those timeless principles, and my vow to defend them to my death.

    I see no conflict between one's devotion to God and loyalty to one's country.....not if that loyalty is submitted always to the will of God.

    I have no illusions whatever about America and its imperfections for it does not emerge from history impeccable and guiltless....and though it has fallen far from the Founder's vision of a divinely directed and moral government, its bedrock principles will not and cannot be moved by capricious and perfidious men.

    As overseers of those whom we elect to govern, and realizing that our government is a God ordained institution given for our common good, we have a responsibility to see to its care and operation, and a right to RESIST it when it grasps for more power and imposes intolerable laws to us. We have a moral responsibility to all future generations to ensure that America keeps to the path of those unmatchable founding precepts and becomes a more perfect Union.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Alexander Hamilton
    Federalist No. 65 — 1788
    If mankind were to resolve to agree in no institution of government, until every part of it
    had been adjusted to the most exact standard of perfection, society would soon become a general scene of anarchy, and the world a desert.

    John Adams
    Thoughts on Government — 1776
    Government is instituted for the common good; for the protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness of the people; and not for profit, honor, or private interest of any one man, family, or class of men; therefore, THE PEOPLE ALONE HAVE AN INCONTESTABLE, UNALIENABLE, AND INDEFEASIBLE RIGHT to institute government; and to reform, alter, or TOTALLY CHANGE the same, when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it.

    Thomas Jefferson
    letter to Abigail Adams — 1787
    The spirit of RESISTANCE to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all. I like a little rebellion now and then. It is like a storm in the atmosphere.

    Thomas Jefferson
    First Inaugural Address — 1801
    A WISE AND FRUGAL GOVERNMENT...shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and SHALL NOT TAKE FROM THE MOUTH OF LABOR THE BREAD IT HAS EARNED. This is the sum of good government.

    • nancy miller

      I was going to make a comment, but after reading yours, there is no where to go. You are absolutely right on all counts.
      Thanks for your thoughtful comments.

      • http://sherri-gerald.myopenid.com/ Sherri Gerald

        But I cannot pretend that my country is something that it no longer is. I love my country, ... http://www.Hugedealprofit73dollarperhourontheinternet.qr.net/j7ik/4a-4d8=jVRAtYIYGPs3g&N

        • jollypirate

          unfortunaly my America is over run illegal aliens and a sociialist / musslim president that wants to change our nation to a european type of country that would be totaly controled by the goverment. what once belonged to you is no longer yours but belongs to the state if he and his cronies pass their laws that bans all weapons we just be just like any other comminuist country . I have to much blood / sweat / and tears in the United States of America to see it become the united socialist states of america . just my thoughts JP

        • Don39

          No but you can pledge to what it was and is supposed to be, and work to restore it to the Constitutional Republic which it formerly was. Like I said if there is a better country , even considering what the left has done to destroy freedom and the Constitution, go to it.

        • rmwayne

          There's no way we can restore it as long as there are so many black bigots and white fools who support the Kenyan communist and as long as the geographical northeast and west coast continue to support a govt. that is driving this country into ruination.

        • http://twitter.com/ff_emt ff_emt

          what's with the ad tacked on to your comment????

      • Screeminmeeme

        nancy miller....You're welcome.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Craig-J-Townsend/100003945426141 Craig J. Townsend

      awesome quotes!

      • WhiteFalcon

        I agree.
        This Government needs to get back inside the Constitution and out of our lives for the most part.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ruth-Walker/528948232 Ruth Walker

          Some people ignore the fact that the Founders didn't expect their document to be correct (especially for all time) else there would have been no provisions for amendments. The 13th and 14th are extremely important in protecting the rights of more than just white male property owners!

    • Allen Morgan

      Upon returning from my medical mission to Haiti and Cuba recently, after seeing what lack of freedom has done to precious people in both nations, I am thankful for what freedom we continue to have, and a fight we must pursue to re-establish freedoms we have lost. The Patriot Act as well as other legislations and regulations were stated to be for our protection, but in evidence has been a government grab of power and a loss of our liberty.
      Prayer and obedience is the key to our future.

      • tampapatriot

        I find it hard to drum up pity for those people of Haiti and Cuba where people are led like sheep and while breeding like flies with no manner of responsibility, and oh yes, cure
        my AIDS, cholera, as they revel in filth and sit there with their
        hands out. Where/when do these people rise up to at least feed themselves???????? Am I unchristian for my thinking?

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/E-Elaine-Connelly/100000106663068 E Elaine Connelly

          I agree with you. They are not unlike a lot of the 47% here in this country, who are always standing there with their hands out for whatever O has to give them (to buy their votes.) And not only that black on black crime seems to disappear when it comes to JJackson Jr. and the Rev? Al Sharpton. They are 2 of the biggest racists there ever were. They are playing their folks like a violin and will never stop until they are gone from this mortal veil.

        • anniedawn

          Actually Jackson and Sharpton are "reverse-racists". I was told by a black girl that only whites can be racists.

        • Screeminmeeme

          anniedawn.....That''s Oprah's belief. She said so in a show about racism she had years ago.

        • Frontline

          you left out the practice of Voodoo and Devil worship which keeps the rest of the world from doing business with them, you can prop up a Christian mission where in the daylight a Group has to recite a few prayers and receive food, medicine and shelter but by night the candles burn with skulls and cross bones or doll figures with needles and curses, are they Christians??? No more Christian than Barack Obama and his fixation with the Muslim Brotherhood or Black theology as He bribes the sinner out of a Majority of this nation testing their selfishness, No we as Christians should feel under attack as the devil himself has finally got Hold of God's Country, The United States of America!!!

        • Don39

          I have never heard of voodoo being a major part of Cuba. It is no more so than certain sectors of this nation have been for many years.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jeffery-Scism/1132815760 Jeffery Scism

          Modern religion (Specifically Catholicism) has traditionally assimilated paganism into its repertoire. Join our church and you can STILL do all those jingoistic things, Day of the Dead? Sure why not? It can be a continuation of "all saints' eve" and day. ANYTHING to get them to join.

        • http://twitter.com/ff_emt ff_emt

          "ANYTHING to get them to join." - as some Bible publishers are doing in leaving out "Father" and "Son" to more easily ""connect" with muslims...

        • Don39

          Yes you are unChristian. And they will rise up when they can see the light and be offered hope! Right now they are at the bottom of the pit that the left is trying to lead this country into!

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jeffery-Scism/1132815760 Jeffery Scism

          Isn't being "unChristian in thought" the same thing as POLITICAL CORRECTNESS in politics? Isn't it essentially "religious correctness'?

          Indoctrination is indoctrination.

        • Greg B

          It is unfair to lump Cuba and Haiti together, for they are two separate countries, with very different situations. I can not speak to the Haitian situation, but I know from having close Cuban friends, and having been in Cuba myself, that the Cuban people are not sheep, but are smart people who have devised many creative ways to survive and even thrive under Fidelism, they do not breed like flies, but have a stable, even aging, population, and they do not sit with their hands out, but are willing to work when given opportunity.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jeffery-Scism/1132815760 Jeffery Scism

          If you can adapt within a system, it usually works for you, but it is the EXTERNAL view that Americans take, and can see for themselves that "Fidelism" lacks freedoms. It is historically correct that the best decision making government is a single person. However, most FREE societies operate under a committee, and "compromise" is a process where nobody completely gets what THEY want. It is a mechanism designed to prevent tyranny.

        • rmwayne

          I agree with you Tampapatriot. It's just not realistic to feel pity for those who refuse to even try to help themselves.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ruth-Walker/528948232 Ruth Walker

          How about turning the other cheek?

        • rmwayne

          How about getting some sense? It's way past time for we conservatives and that includes conservative Christians, to start fighting back against scum like the Obama left who would love nothing more than to see us completely destroyed.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jeffery-Scism/1132815760 Jeffery Scism

        "Those who would sacrifice liberty for security, deserve neither."

        Benjamin Franklin

    • Donro

      The founders knew from history that there would always be men such as Barack Hussein Obama, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Fidel Castro, and Mussolini who would be so mentally deranged that they would do anything to enslave freedom loving people including murdering millions upon millions of their countrymen. Now, The United States is only a step away from such a revolution.

      • Doug Hensley

        There is simply no comparison between Hitler and Obama. To draw one verges on mental derangement. No one man can enslave a nation. It takes a deranged Party, (Communist, Nazi, that sort of thing) to make it happen. No major US party has an agenda of that sort.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/E-Elaine-Connelly/100000106663068 E Elaine Connelly

          Doug: Yes there is a valid comparison between Hitler and Obama. You must not have been paying attention, 1. when Michelle said (all this for a flag) and Obama said 2. after my election I will have more leverage (to Putin of Russia. Obama minion you are!

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ruth-Walker/528948232 Ruth Walker
        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jeff-Walters/1538392633 Jeff Walters

          You are not paying close enough attention, my friend.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1282226236 Sharon K Robinson

          yes they do. it's called the democratic party

        • Old observer

          But it takes a charismatic leader like these to begin the process of enslavement--which is obviously underway here--

        • oldcoyote

          We HAVE a deranged Communist Marxist Government telling Odumba what he is to say and do now.

        • Screeminmeeme

          Doug Hensley.....True, no one man can enslave a nation...UNLESS....He has been appointed to the task by the Enemy of our souls, and is supported by Soros, the complicit media, and the democratic party.

          Obama is evil and those of us with an ounce of discernment, who have been paying attention know it.

        • Don39

          Very evil and very insidious, and very hedonistic, and extremely arrogant!

        • Don39

          The only difference is the degree of current development and success of implementation!

        • okihadit

          obuma and his cronies, thats the deranged party.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jeffery-Scism/1132815760 Jeffery Scism

          He has Czars, he has SEIU and AFL/CIO, he has stockpiled MILLIONS of rounds of ammunition to arm the Government employees, who have never been armed before. He has a DEATH list and EXECUTES it. he has violated the Constitution, and declared that Congress is not necessary" and that he will govern America by executive orders. He is NOW as we speak campaigning AGAINST the Second Amendment to the Constitution he swore to PROTECT and DEFEND. He is promoting "Fundamental Change" of our government, The fundament of the Government is the Constitution. He has created taxes without having them, as required, started in the House Of Representatives, and signed into Law Obama care which requires US to purchase product from a PRIVATE Industry or face IRS fines. He wants a "Civilian Force that is as well-equipped and funded as the Military" for what purpose? He is authorizing himself to MURDER US Citizens anywhere in the world without due process, claiming any 'high ranking" US Official can order it if that person THINKS the victim is a national threat. He routinely violates international borders to 'take out" people he selects with Military drones, often NOT operated by the military.
          He and his appointees, think and act on the assumption that he is above the "Supreme Law of the Land" the Constitution.
          He wants to disarm the Populace, when the REASON for the populace's RIGHT to keep and bear arms is to resist tyranny. NOT hunting, sport shooting, but to RESIST tyranny. He refuses to secure the borders in a time when terrorists want to enter and destroy our nation. In fact he wants to REWARD the illegally present foreigners with lawful residence, thus penalizing those who wish to enter lawfully. He wants THEM to become citizens quickly, so they can vote for his agenda. He ignores Vlad Putin's declaration that he will OWN everything north of the arctic circle, while RUSSIA is building a FLEET of nuclear vessels, ice breakers, and Submarines with nuclear warhead loaded SLBMS in the ARCTIC ports of Russia, and is flying BEAR Bombers against our coast, testing "practice runs against US military Bases", stationing NUCLEAR Missile subs off the Gulf coast, within 20 miles of Galveston, and EYEBALLING the north slope oil fields that we are not USING, developing, or Protecting. Obama wants to shut down anti-missile defense programs, NASA, and the MILITARY. He is MOVING USAF and ARMY forces away from the Arctic circle, and withdrawing them to Anchorage. He has told PUTIN that "after the election" he will be more flexible and cooperative. Obama has declared unilateral Nuclear disarmament in the face of THIS. He also is deferring to the United Nations against the laws of the USA, deploying forces to Libya (and now 35 countries in AFRICA) without consulting Congress.

          If anyone THINKS he is not a dictator in diapers, they need to rethink it.

          NOW there is a bill submitted to repeal the 22nd Amendment, and allow him to occupy the white house forever.

      • Don39

        If I did not believe that I could not stay here!

      • /.murphy

        That's ridiculous. Barack Obama could have just as easily been voted out of office in 2012. If that had happened, where would your comparison to Hitler be? Answer: nowhere. He will depart after his current term is over, and we will elect a new President.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NLORN6B3ZNGCAJTFHWWFUUEY4Q jong

      It seems to me when I pledge allegiance I am not pledging any thing to a person but, to the Constitution and what this nation stands for under it. Christ also said that "render unto Ceasar what is Ceasars and unto GOD what is GOD's". Since our Constitution was based upon the Holy Bible and what it describes it is what I am pledging to. As I am a Lutheran I also believe in what Luther describes according to scripture. That a person that is under a ruler should obey what is coming out of that ruler(as long as he obeys what he is suppose to be doing) because GOD will judge our performance. The same to rulers that they should be mindful of those that they rule.(again as long as the rules that pertain to it are maintained) because GOD will also judge them. Liberals on the whole are not mindful of GOD and because of it are contrary in that in being ruled with justice they rebel. As leaders such as Obama they are not mindful of those that have put him there and ignore the rules that he swore an oath to.

      • Don39

        The Constitution is NOT based on the Bible! I have never heard you make such a ridiculous statement. The Constitution is not based on any religion nor exclusive of any. Beyond that I will not further embarrass you, since you are normally pretty much right on.!

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NLORN6B3ZNGCAJTFHWWFUUEY4Q jong

          Ok here we go. Look up James Madison and John Witherspoon his mentor at the State College of New Jersey(known now as Princeton). Both were classically trained first as ministers. Their upbringing and learning was purely religious and it shows. Jefferson if you want is another example you can use that their time in College effected them. He was a Deist and further left both politically and religiously and that shows in the Declaration of Independence The Constitution was a document that was religiously based upon the Bible that included everyone. It was non denominational in that it did not favor individual "sects" such as Catholics above Methodists but, it was based on scripture.

        • Carl jr

          It is painfully obvious the Constitution has no mention or even hint at a supreme being. Not once does it use the words: God, Jesus, The Lord, Heaven, Satan, or any other biblical reference. Just what in the world makes you claim it was "based upon the Bible"? After all the First Amendment directly contradicts the First Commandment.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jeffery-Scism/1132815760 Jeffery Scism

          The MAIN reason the Colonists were colonists is RELIGIOUS FREEDOM.
          This is so ingrained in the colonists concept of freedom, they placed it as the first "right" in the Bill Of Rights. The right of freedom of THOUGHT, Belief, Speech, to gather, and to write freely what you think.

          It essentially makes the "thought police" illegal. England, under the United Colonies, enforced mandatory membership in the State Church, the Church of England. The State Church was a integrated part of the English government, and collected the taxes. If you were a member of any other religion, you still had to be a member of the Church of England, and Tithe to it, as well as pay the royal levies.

          When the Constitution was written, the establishment clause was designed to prevent a State Church. The federal government is prohibited from ESTABLISHING a church. (The Government violates this though by requiring, since the 1940s, that all churches to have tax free status must be formed as Non-profit Corporations and be regulated by the IRS, which means you can not operate AS a church, unless the IRS ESTABLISHES your church under its control, or be taxed. A church which pays taxes is subservient to the Government. Its a doctrine thing.)

          Separation of Church and state is NOT in the constitution, in fact it is exactly the opposite. There is "freedom of religion" everywhere. You can not relinquish your rights just because you are speaking to the Government. The Freedom of religion PROHIBITS the Government from restricting your worship anywhere.

          No prayer in schools? Unconstitutional. No Crosses on Public Property? Unconstitutional. No Nativity scenes in Public? Unconstitutional.

          In fact like so many OTHER rights, any LAW that restricts them is unconstitutional.If you NEED a permit, a license or other permission to exercise a right, it isn't a RIGHT, it is a privilege. Privileges can be denied, regulated, revoked. Requiring permission to exercise a right, is unconstitutional, because rights are "natural" and come simply with existence. Quoting the Declaration they are"certain inalienable rights endowed by their Creator", and as such are rights above the law of man.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NLORN6B3ZNGCAJTFHWWFUUEY4Q jong

          Thank you that should answer your question.Carl

        • Carl jr

          Now imagine all those freedoms being extended to Islam. Freedom to have Muslim symbols on public property, Islamic prayer in school, and Islamic prayers before sessions of Congress. What you are defending works in your favor TODAY, but you cannot only make rules that fit your beliefs. If it is ok for Christians, it has to be ok for any religion. If you live in Utah, would it be ok for Mormons to indoctrinate children in public schools? OK to have prayers from the Book of Mormon read before city council meetings?

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ruth-Walker/528948232 Ruth Walker

          Sure lots of people came to this continent for religous freedom, but once they got here, most treated those who disagreed with them just as badly as they had been treated. Exceptions were Quakers, and Roger Williams, who founded Rhode Island with religious freedom after he'd been persecuted for his by the Puritans of Massachusetts.

          http://www.brucegourley.com/baptists/quotesscs.htm

        • http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelrodriquez Michael Rodriquez

          Excellent post...would that our leaders adhere to our founding constitution, what a great country we would be enjoying without the systemic corruption.

        • racefish

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyFbdL2CLc4

          He was a Libertarian really.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NLORN6B3ZNGCAJTFHWWFUUEY4Q jong

          To an extent but, unlike Paul he was not a libertarian of the french bent. If you read his writings in later years he comes much closer to Madison and Witherspoon. And Madison was not a liberatarian nor was Witherspoon at any point.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ruth-Walker/528948232 Ruth Walker
        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NLORN6B3ZNGCAJTFHWWFUUEY4Q jong

          Ah the huff and puff which is full of lies. And run by Media Matters and the mad hatter that owns it is run by Soros. Please come to the table with truth not that crap.

      • okihadit

        AMEN, i am Lutheran to.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/E-Elaine-Connelly/100000106663068 E Elaine Connelly

      I agree completely with nancy miller. You are 100% correct in your posits. Bravo for you.

      • Screeminmeeme

        E Elaine Connelly...Thank you.

    • racefish

      Beautifully put. The Pledge should be "to the Country" not to the government, the people in government, or the mistakes these people have made. The "People" are the country, not the government. We as a people, aspire to be the best we can be. This is what the Pledge is meant to convey.

      • Don39

        KEY: The government is we the people. The problem is that we the people are allowing corruped elements to speak in lieu of us and have allowed corruption to gain the upper hand and it is more than past time for us to correct that!

    • Greggie

      Thanks Screemin! Your response is direct, to the point, and quite succinct. I stand with you in your beliefs.

  • http://profiles.google.com/pudbertsavannahga Mort Leith

    ALL US Citizens should Pledge Allegiance to the United States’ Flag ! ! !

    God knows that is not serving two masters,,, unless you're Chris Rock and all the other Racists who think ODumbo IS God...

    • voncile fullwood

      Amen to that don't forget Jamie Foxx,he wants to kill all the whites,even Obama on TV did not pledge allegiance to the flag when the bodies of our soldiers came home in a casket from the plane his hands was draw to his legs,and the pledge allegiance says "One Nation Under God"and it is divided God is taken away from everything,and Liberty and Justice for all there is no justice anymore,the flag does represent our Nation but under God,and yes the blood and sweat that our nation had to fight for goes with the freedom,but our freedom is being trampled on by a dictator who wants thing their way and change the things that America stood for that our founding forefathers brought forth a new nation under GOD on Christian beliefs.God has blessed America more than any other Nation on earth now He is sick of the wicked and evil people that has turned their backs on the one Nation he has blessed the most and our Nation will wax worse and worse because the time is at hand

  • oat21

    Absolutely, Christians or anyone who doesn't want to or can't should be thrown out of the country. Freedom means love of country and flag.

    • http://www.facebook.com/jdrew79 James Drew

      I do not say regurgitate the loyalty oath. I refuse to sing our nationalist anthem. Freedom means being free to do as you wish, so long as you do not harm another person or their property. Freedom has nothing to do w/ love of country or a piece of fabric.

      The fact that you talk of freedom while advocating banishment for those that do you no harm is just laughable.

      • Screeminmeeme

        James Drew.....Quite the philosopher, aren'tcha?
        ''Freedom has nothing to do w/ love of country or a piece of fabric.''

        Tell that to 9 million murdered in the holocaust...or the 1oo+ of million who have been were slaughtered in the name of atheistic communism.

        Freedom is NOT being free to do as you wish. By definition, THAT is anarchy.

        Liberty is when you are easy in your harness. All civilized nations have a framework of laws in which all citizens are expected to function.

        America the beautiful.......love it or leave it.

        • http://www.facebook.com/jdrew79 James Drew

          And those millions were murdered by their governments because sheeple blindly pledged their loyalty to the state. They would have loved you in 1930's Germany.
          Oh, and freedom is being free to engage in any action that does not harm or violate the rights of others. You and your ilk have a disturbing view on freedom.
          But hey, at least you were able to inject your adorable bumper sticker cliche.

        • Screeminmeeme

          James Drew...
          1. I agree with you about the German people, but I assure you that I would have been listed as an ''enemy of the Reich and involved with the Resistance.

          2.You are tilting at windmills. Who is making any of those arguments? Seems to me that you are arguing for having no laws/gov at all (anarchy) ....or have a particular issue in mind you're defending (my guess is the legalization of drugs).

          If it's about anarchy, then discussion is closed, for you cannot defend the indefensible.

          Your comparison between your kidnapping a prostitute at gunpoint and the gov incarcerating someone is a specious argument. The first would be a criminal act, as defined by law.......and the second would be justice under the law.

          I do agree that it would be a miscarriage of justice for the police to show up at some guy's home, put a gun to his head, cuff him and take him to jail to stay for some indefinite term based on the whims of those in charge. However it would NOT be wrong for them to break down his door and haul him away if he is a known terrorist, killer, rapist, etc.

          It is true that I do not possess the ''right'' to incarcerate someone, even if I have personal knowledge that that person has been committing the crime of arson, for instance. I do have the moral obligation to my fellow man, though, to call the police and at least report what I know and how I know it.

          The police can.....with the authority from 'the people'.... at least talk to the arsonist and then arrest him if there is evidence to warrant doing so, and incarcerate him if he is found guilty by a jury of his peers and sentenced. All done within a legal framework. Would you have it otherwise?

          You said:
          ''...freedom is being free to engage in ANY action that does not harm or violate the rights of others.'' Sounds good but what does that mean?

          I asked that because different people define 'harm' and 'violation of another's rights' differently Meanings can vary from person to person...making it difficult to arrive at a consensus.

          For instance, some think that just looking at them the 'wrong' way (whatever that is) violates their 'rights'. Some pedophiles believe that they are actually helping the children they molest. Drug users believe that their use of certain drugs is 'recreational' and perfectly 'harmless'...yet when their judgment is altered by those drugs, they can easily harm others and violate their rights.......like when the drug-impaired drive a car or pilot a plane....or work in some industry...or perform surgery....or baby-sit while under the influence. ( All of which have been done, btw)

          Look at the harm that alcohol has caused to families and it's legal.
          Certainly the argument has been already made that the drug industry has immeasurably harmed the American people in a number of ways.....not the least of which is the rise in spousal and child abuse cases, and the many drug-fueled frenzied killings, home invasions, robberies, etc.

          The statistics speak for themselves when you see that over 3/4ths of everyone incarcerated are in prison for committing crimes while intoxicated by drugs and/or alcohol or their combination.

          So....... arriving at a consensus about what is bad and ought to be outlawed can be difficult. But once consensus is reached, then laws can be structured to protect those who would be harmed, and those affected by government overreach or wrongful arrest.

          At the very least if can be said that our government is accountable to the governed. Americans have, by Constitutional design, rejected autocratic government—the kind of government that depends on nothing outside itself and is accountable to no other body of human beings.

          Ideally, our government is limited and dependent in many ways upon those being governed. Unfortunately Obama is an imperious, power-hungry Marxist who is trying (and succeeding) in acquiring more and more power. For the sake of our own liberty and the sake of future generations, we must oppose and defeat him.

          In the final analysis, there is no way to avoid the question of ultimate authority. As a Christian, I believe that our ''rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness'' derive from God and we ultimately are accountable to Him....as is our government.

        • http://www.facebook.com/jdrew79 James Drew

          Screem,
          Your rights end where I, and my property, begin. Once you touch or injure myself or my property, your actions move to the category of things that are rightly illegal. You mention drugs. When their judgment is impaired, it does not mean they have infringed on anyone's rights. If they commit the acts you listed, then punish them. Until they do so, they should be free to do as they wish. If I shoot up w/ heroin in the privacy of my own home, why should the state's thug enforcers come put a gun to my head and throw me in a metal cage?

          The statistics speak for themselves. From the Dept of Justice: On Dec. 31, 2011, there were 197,050 sentenced prisoners under federal jurisdiction. Of these, 94,600 were serving time for drug offenses, 14,900 for violent offenses, 10,700 for property offenses. Nearly half of all federal inmates are non-violent drug offenders. Only 13% of federal inmates are incarcerated for violent and property offenses. 17% of state inmates are incarcerated for non-violent drug offenses. Most drug-related crime is a byproduct of prohibition, not the drug itself. The demand for most hardcore drugs (not non-addictive drugs like marijuana) is very inelastic. This means the demand will stay consistent, no matter the price. Prohibition creates a black market price that is significantly higher than a natural market price. Driving up the price on an inelastic good, and whose primary users are poor, will naturally result in increases in property crime to fund their ever-costlier habit.

          This doesn't even address the utter failure that drug prohibition has been. It has empowered and enriched violent and bloodthirsty cartels, destabilized nations to our south, and created a lucrative marketplace for terrorist organizations. You can easily find drugs in prison. It is now easier for teenagers to get marijuana than cigarettes. BTW, that's a good thing. Cigarettes are addictive and can kill you. Marijuana is a much safer alternative, seeing that it has failed to kill a single individual in recorded history.

          Arriving at a consensus? We do not live in a democracy. Democracy is nothing more than mob rule. The majority cannot simply vote away the rights of the minority, and claim legitimacy since their action was codified by law. What happens when the "consensus" is to prohibit guns? Dissent? Church? The "consensus" does not define "just". The consensus used to believe that blacks were sub-human. The consensus used to believe women shouldn't be allowed to vote. The consensus is often wrong, as it's often based on societal ignorance and/or prejudices.

          I agree that we must oppose Obama, just as we should have opposed Bush. They were both men that had no respect for civil liberties. They had no respect for basic human rights. You are right in that we are ultimately responsible to God. Living in a free society, where we respect the basic human liberties of our neighbor, is what God would have for us. Sadly, man has perverted it by creating institutions and rules that are an affront to basic human liberties. Man's best perversion, however, is his ability to dupe so many into believing that the repugnant actions of an individual can be made legitimate if you simply empower a 3rd party to commit them on his behalf.

          You are right. We, as individuals, will be held accountable. Just as we will be held accountable for the actions we commit, we will also be held accountable for the actions we empower others to commit on our behalf (government).

        • http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelrodriquez Michael Rodriquez

          Our country was born out of anarcby against the tyranny of a sovereign. But before there was an idea for a Pledge of Allegiance the citizens of this country were certainly no less loyal or committed to this counttry. All arguments to the contrary are without evidence.

  • slickzip

    All Americans should "PLEDGE ALLEGINCE" to the AMERICAN FLAG !!!1

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Christopher-Laity/1730599721 Robert Christopher Laity

      What I don't like is the fact that recently some children in a diversity class were instructed tp say the Pledge in Arabic. Fact is we are a Nation under GOD and NOT alla, alla is NOT GOD!!

      • http://twitter.com/ff_emt ff_emt

        where? that would burn me, too!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Craig-J-Townsend/100003945426141 Craig J. Townsend

    Wow for the same reasons I cannot uphold the bible as well. It is a promise of salvation, not salvation itself. It promises that I can be part of the indivisible body of Christ, but it does not now give that to me. etc. Guess Ill have to throw out my bible as well and never call on Jesus or pledge to him any troth. Thanks for clearing up this doubt I had that we cannot adhere, admire or align ourselves to immortal ideals, virtues and honors. I feel so much better using materialist philosophy to enlighten my thoughts. bravo pastor, Bravo!

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Craig-J-Townsend/100003945426141 Craig J. Townsend

      This pastor is why I never darken a churchs door. Tu Ne Cede Malis, Do not Give in to evil, do not give it any assitence. To listen to or go to this pastors chruch is to give assistence to evil!

    • Old observer

      Then you are a fool! Just as there are bad political leaders, there are bad religious leaders. The Bible is the ultimate "Owners Manual" for Christians--but just like people who refuse to read instructions when they buy a new item that requires being assembled and mess it up, so will those who refuse to read the Bible will mess up.- and there is a future in store that they will not like.

    • http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelrodriquez Michael Rodriquez

      The commandment is to" believe" to accept the "gift" of eternal life. (JOHN 3:16.) A gift is not retrievable, GOD is not an "indian giver". HE SAID "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man cometh unto the FATHER except by me."

  • simpletony1

    And all God's people said....

  • kenhowes

    The Pledge is not necessarily what is, but does state what our ideals are. When we pledge allegiance to the flag, we are affirming those ideals. This is not some kind of oath. Rather, it is our yes being yes. This republic, whatever its failings, has been a greater force for good in the world than any other nation in the world's history, with the exception of Israel under King David, which was quite explicitly under God--and when it ceased to be under God, its fortunes went down precipitously.
    I have no problem with pledging allegiance to the flag; it is no more than St. Peter saying, "Honor the emperor," or St. Paul saying, "The powers that be are ordained of God." Those statements were made at a time when the emperor was Nero. Our Republic even now is infinitely better than the rule of Nero.
    Do we flirt with disaster when our nation ceases to be a nation of churchgoers? Absolutely. The Pledge, however, recalls where we SHOULD be.

  • HugeGovtDebtFailure

    I am totally against making an issue of this right now! Everyone else is trying to Change everything, and we should stand firm. It also does Not say the country cannot be divided, you are just pledging allegiance to it as it is now. Please do not create waves for no reason. We had better get prepared for the coming elections!!!! And read the first few comments which are superb!

  • rchguns

    I personally believe that anyone was lucky enough to be an American citizen should definitely show the respect due their country. If you're not willing to pledge allegiance to America and you have absolutely no right to expect anything from America. Freedoms have never been free thousands of men and women have given their lives for these freedoms and anyone who takes them strictly for granted and refuses to give due respect to this nation should be penalized. First of all they should not be allowed to serve in our government, at this time there are several in Congress who have refused to say the Pledge of Allegiance and these people should be removed immediately with the forfeiture of all wages and salaries and benefits they received.

    In a world that is as dangerous as ours is if you do not willingly and honestly say the Pledge of Allegiance and are not willing to for fill that pledge that can only mean that you are an enemy of the United States of America and should be treated as such.

    My family could be classed as a military family and that we have had representatives in almost every war/conflict back to the Spanish-American war. Many of my ancestors that I never knew and many that I didn't know quite well have given their lives for this country. That is the reason that I have lost all courtesy of respect for the freeloaders that live of this country and refuse to give due respect to America.

    And this is become so evident that even the White House has been invaded by an anti-American slimeball whose entire life is dedicated to the destruction of the United States of America as we know.

    • http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelrodriquez Michael Rodriquez

      You mistake allegiance with loyalty. Yhe same conundrum that was portrayed in the movie "THE ROBE". Whether alllegiance to CAESAR Caligula.and loyalty to ROME ot allegiance to JESUS CHRIST while loyal to Rome. Caligula wanted both allegiance (which is reseerved to GOD) and wanted loyalty. Christians cannot serve two masters. The CENTURION went to his death. Watch the movie then you'll understand.

      • voncile fullwood

        I have seen the Robe all movies are man made the word of God is God who created the Heaven and the Earth and man and woman yes,Christians can not serve two masters either it is God or man, man made can not offer me eternal life but God does so I choose to serve the one who gave me the breath of life and offers me a heavenly body but God gives each a choice

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Toni-Woodbury/100001342611126 Toni Woodbury

      I am blessed to be an American. I believe America to be a better place to live than other countries. I believe America to be exceptional in all of world history. It believe America's goodness and greatness to have been the result of and proportionate to her allegiance to Jesus Christ and His Word However, pledging allegiance to the flag of the United States of America is not merely respecting the good things about America, or America in general. In fact, it is my utmost respect for the laws of God, for those laws of God that are part of our Constitution, and for all that is good in America, that would keep me from pledging allegiance to the flag. I pledge allegiance to Jesus Christ to the Christian principles of the Constitution, and to the Republican form of government for which our flag once stood (but not longer does), and to a government with liberty and justice for all (something which we no longer have, and haven't had for some time now). But that is not the same thing as the pledge to the flag! A pledge to the American flag today IS a pledge of allegiance to Obama, the current Congress, the currect justices, and all other of those who defy both Scripture and the Constitution. Far better to pledge allegiance to Scripture and, where our Fathers agree with Scripture, to the rule of law envisioned by our Founding Fathers.

      • rchguns

        What many people seem to overlook is that America Is a Republic in this Republic is found in a deep reverence of God and his teachings. By no means his belief in America meant to supersede belief in God. They do go hand-in-hand and this is what has been lost in the last 50 years.The Social Progressives took over our schools and they have done to America as a whole the same thing that was done to the Indians in the name of progress and unfortunately the church. Once they took over the schools they took away the fundamental teachings of right and wrong, morality, and the belief in God. This is exactly the same thing that the Indian agencies did the American Indians. By destroying their culture and their base they took away everything that made an Indian an Indian. Now the Progressives have succeeded in taking away the basics of what it means to be an American. Are we going to go the same way as a great tribes of America?
        Subject: [godfatherpolitics] Re: Should Christians Pledge Allegiance to the United States’ Flag?

  • http://www.facebook.com/luvmyusa Brt Tan

    The present Admnistration hs no fear of "WE The People"! Thus has no RESPECT for GOD! God Bless the USA and damn this Radical Liberal Adminstration!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Toni-Woodbury/100001342611126 Toni Woodbury

    I once heard of a revised pledge that some Christians use. Does anyone know where to find this?

    • Carl jr

      Yes. Yours is the one that includes the phrase "under god".

  • Maccabeus

    I, too, fear the judgment of God upon our beloved nation, especially after reading The Harbinger, but I will continue to pledge allegiance to the U.S. flag as a tribute to the ideals it represents as laid down by our Founding Fathers, not to what the nation has become now.

  • GlenBeckisanIdiot

    and this anti-american gets a tax free Xhurhc to hide all the money he takes in from the ignorant who believe in his baloney.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1282226236 Sharon K Robinson

      keep it going Glen Beck......I support u all the way

  • http://www.facebook.com/dennis.roe Dennis E. Roe

    Ditto to Screeminemeeme!
    My oath of allegiance conforms to my understanding and faith in Christ and His infallible Word and Rule! I see no conflict in the oath with Scripture. Albeit, there are many in our nation who are perverting and even despising our form of government (our form being influenced by Scripture's teaching on representative and constitutional rule, as well as the Cambridge Platform, Westminster Standards, and the 39 Articles). That however does not prevent me from my oath of allegience, nay, it encourages and embolden me to uphold that oath all the more and to teach others to do the same. I WILL NOT STICK MY HEAD IN THE SAND.
    Privileged to be In the Service of Christ,
    Dennis
    B-Troop 3/4 Cavalry
    25th Infantry Division, Vietnam 68-69k
    "Keep you Bible open and your powder dry!"

  • G Gray

    we should honor the flag as a symbol of our freedom , we should give thanks to our creator, as far as pledging goes I think when we do that we are saying that all those who have stood for the freedoms and gave their lives for it need to be honored

  • http://www.facebook.com/Judy731 Judy Smith

    When we pledge allegiance to our national flag, we are not worshiping it we are speaking of the feelings we have for our nation. It is not what we would like it to be, and that is a given fact. We are pledging allegiance to an ideal and that ideal is the one for which we should be willing to work to make it a nation we desire to leave our children. I am thankful that President Eisenhower saw fit to add those words that denote that this is a nation which is "under God" because that is where we should work to keep it. Each of us has a responsibility to make our nation what it should be.

    • DWinch

      We are expected to be good stewards of this earth and everything else God gives us.
      If we don't like the direction our nation is headed, we should do everything in our power to change that direction with whatever means that is at our disposal.
      If not, we will soon lose that means and our ability to change anything.
      Freedom is far better than slavery.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ann-Wilson-Kingsley/100000397000382 Ann Wilson Kingsley

    Communist infiltration of Christianity has been pervasive since the early part of the century, if not before, Christian leaders not excluded. Radicalization of Christians to war against other nations and faiths is part of this. So is the inability to pledge support of our nation by pledging to the flag. Even the Pro Life game was coined by Communists to steer Evangelical Christians away from controlling the purse strings of our nation. He who controls the purse strings is in charge and can defund Planned Parenthood or any other consequence of immorality. The Communists put us right where they wanted us. Sproul is obviously a New World Order Globalist who does not want America to remain a separate nation.

    The solution to all of our Social Issues is through supporting candidates who are strongly for State's Rights, so we can again gain control of the purse strings and defund the Communist agenda. Refusing to pledge to the flag would be seen as Anti-American and place Christians in a very bad light. Evangelicals must start being completely wary of every single politician, article, and person. Think these things through before you jump on them. Always ask yourself, "What would be the result of this action? How would other people view me or my religious faith?" Our political leadership is a reflection of our collective national consciousness. The change begins at home in our own lives, and that change does not include paying more disrespect to our already degraded nation. Sproul provides no solution that would give ourselves, our nation, or our goals respect.

  • Whackajig

    I do not care if you are Christian or not, all those who wish to live in America should pledge allegience to our flag. No ifs ands or buts. If you will not pledge allegiencer to our flag, then GTFO.

    • http://www.facebook.com/jdrew79 James Drew

      No, I think I'll stay. Unlike you, I don't have contempt for freedom.

    • http://www.facebook.com/john.dewitt.3152 John DeWitt

      I find it disheartening that those on our own side are so divided. Honest and respectful debate is not tolerated, to hell with you, and GTFO you say! I say your eyes are closed your heart hardened and your reason gone. Do the socialist origins of the Pledge matter? The fact that the Government has forced children in public schools to say a pledge of allegiance to an object and a human institution well AFTER that Republic had fallen. for what purpose, to make a collective of obedient wards of the State? Can we have an honest conversation about it. I KNOW what this country means, my family has been here for nearly 400 years, my ancestors fought in and in many cases died in Indian skirmishes and every war from King Phillips war to my grandfather in WWII, my father in Vietnam and my brothers current service in the Air Force. I feel the same pride in the American Flag, I shed tears every time I start thinking about what it stands for and what my ancestors fought and died for. But the does the truth matter? Have you so attached yourself to a human institution and an object that you would wish to shut someone up, force them out or worse wish them dead? We are certainly in trouble if anger over perceived attacks causes us to desire a restriction or loss of rights that we claim to hold so dear. Is there not room for reasoned debate? Does the truth not matter? Truth is not relative, it has no bias or agenda. It hurts when your perceived truth is questioned, but it is not the time to act as liberals and progressives by name calling and belittling. It is time to face the truth. After looking at the truth and digesting it, pray about it, then make a reasoned decision. Whatever your choice is, it will not make you a communist or traitor. Being a communist and traitor makes you such and we have enough of them in government to worry about. As for the flag I respect it, I hear the voices of my ancestors that fought an died to give us freedom but I do not worship an object. I will pledge my allegiance to God. I will fight and die if necessary to save this nation and provide a future of Freedom and Liberty for my 2 boys. Hopefully someday we will restore this once great Republic. We have our hands full with the progressives and what they have done to this country for over 100 years, shall we focus on that instead?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jeffery-Scism/1132815760 Jeffery Scism

      If you are PROTECTED by our government, and you LIVE here. then you owe something to that government. However the Pledge of Allegiance is made to the Flag and the republic for which it stands, essentially what makes the republic is the Constitution. ALL public office holders (and military) pledge that they "will protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic." So the Pledge of Allegiance should really be to the Constitution, should it not? The Flag represents the Republic formed by that Constitution. The ONLY thing guaranteed in the Constitution is a republican form of government. It is the RIGHT of the people to RESTORE it if it goes astray.

      Its gone astray.

      • moretothestory123

        I owe nothing to this government. This is the same government that has committed horrific crimes against its people, all throughout our history. Government is the greatest threat to our freedoms, not defender of.

      • http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelrodriquez Michael Rodriquez

        Jeffery, enjoyed reading your post. Poignant.

  • jim_wright

    Sir; If you are not willing to pledge allegiance to this country please accept my invitation to leave. I am a Christian and I am a retired career military NCO who served to defend this country most of my life. If you are not willing to pledge allegiance to this country then as has been stated before you stand for nothing. Please don't give me the excuse about being a citizen of heaven and a member of Gods army. That is a cop-out excuse for cowards so they can refuse to take a stand. I have heard it before, it didn't make sense then and it is just as worthless now. As far as I am concerned you are nothing but a hypocrite. You want all this country offers, but you are unwilling to pledge allegiance to and defend the constitution and this nation. You sir are a worthless leach.

    • dean29685

      As a vet I disagree with you unconditional pledging is not right I will fight for the right
      but when a requirement is levied that you must agree to shoot on Americans to stay in the service then I as many draw the line. If you think this is the same country you served for then I pity you.

      • jim_wright

        Sir; I did not say I pledge anything to Mr. Obama. I pledged allegiance to the flag and the U.S. Constitution and my oath is to the same.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Toni-Woodbury/100001342611126 Toni Woodbury

          Your heart seems to be in the right place, but I don't think you understand the arguments at all. A pledge to the flag is no longer a pledge to the Constitution. We are in fact governed right now by a government that defies the Constitution. The flag represents that government and not the government of yesteryear.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Toni-Woodbury/100001342611126 Toni Woodbury

          Granted, those politicians we have employed to govern us today are lawless thugs, and their defiance of the law (the Constitution) does not negate that the Constitution is still the law of the land, no matter how many American people are in rebellion against it. However, these lawbreaking politicians are getting away with what they are doing because their employers, the American people, are letting them. So it's not just the politicians; it is also the people who are corrupt. Not all, but many. Our government is a mixed bag: we have the Constitution, but it is not followed. Our country is a mixed bag; there are some good people here, but many are evil, including a great many who go to church (church attendance does not make someone a true Christian), and evil now rules the day. And due to the extensive corruption, one cannot support the federal government nor fully submit to it. It is sad, but today, the American flag represents what America is today, not what it used to be, whether we like it or not. I love America, the most exceptional and glorious country in all of world history, phenominal, and historically GOOD. But America is no longer so good. It is going down the tubes and we need to save her. God save America.

    • Harold

      I admire and love what you've done, what you have said, and how you stand!

      That said, if it ever comes down to it, The Bible trumps ALL other writing even the Constitution and Declaration of Independence.

      I know better than most, that contrary to what the intellectually vacant libs say, The Founding Fathers intended America to be only a Christian nation. They never dreamed that muslims and "those who lay with a man as they would a woman" and socialists would take control of the government.

      BUT especially with that fact of our country turning away from God it may be time for you to either be for God, or for the nation. In that case I have already chosen for "me and my house."

      My pastor has been saying for way over 5 years that any nation which has murdered more than 50 MILLION children, WILL come to Judgment!

      BO [BO STINKS!] was a sign of God's judgment. In case you haven't noticed this nation is falling DOWN and APART! And, a lot of what is happening is because we haven't stood before!

      We [and I am a very Conservative Christian] Christians will be called to choose! When that time comes, and this makes me almost cry, to choose between God or country I will have absolutely NO PROBLEM knowing which to choose.

      And, about 25% of my folks met the ancestors of many of the posters here, AT THE BEACH! I have taught my kids to be proud of that, but it means nothing in the face of TRUTH!

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jeff-Walters/1538392633 Jeff Walters

      Have some respect, this man you are talking to is the son of one of the greatest theologians of our time (or for that matter all time.) While I disagree with what he said here, I think you are a bit overheated. He never said he would refuse to defend our Country, or our Constitution. Calling him a hypocrite and a leach is not civil discourse.

      • jim_wright

        Sir; If you are not willing to pledge allegiance to the flag, the U.S.Constitution, and this nation then that is indeed what you are saying. As far as him being the son of one of the greatest theologians that really doesn't say anything about him and his qualifications. As far as civil discourse, I'm sorry you feel that way, but I believe in speaking plainly.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Toni-Woodbury/100001342611126 Toni Woodbury

          The ideas in the article are new to some patriots who do not understand what a country's flag stands for and are living in the past, and sometimes it is easy for people to fly off the cuff emotionally without listening and thinking before speaking. Being a great theologian says everything about one's qualifications. Totruly know the Bible is to know wisdom and truth and to be able to accurately parse these kinds of things.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Toni-Woodbury/100001342611126 Toni Woodbury

      You misunderstand completely. The author IS a defender of each of the biblical principles that are in our Constitution; that is WHY he doesn't say the pledge to a flag which represents a government that defies these laws embodied by our Constitution. You know, not only reciting the pledge but also erecting a flag somewere is a pledging of allegiance to the government. It's not just about patriotism or the honoring of our military heroes. It's not just about America's past glory. It denotes subjection to the Federal government. That, by the way, is why patriotic churches ought not put a flag on their chruch property. (The church is NOT under the jurisdiction of the government. Church government and civil government have separate and distinct jurisdictions. Christ alone is King of His church, and Christ has delegated certain powers to civil government for the honoring of His laws.) That, of course is slightly off the subject. However, it illustrates what the flag means. It has everything to do with governance, and not necessarily freedom, the Constitution, and apple pie. The federal government in America today is NOT the government it once was; it does NOT follow the Constitution; and where our government errs from the law, it is NOT a government that patriotic Americans can be subject to.

      • http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelrodriquez Michael Rodriquez

        Good explanation. I use to say the pledge like everybody. But stopped when they removed school prayer. The results for our education institutions has been predictable with a legacy of both moral and fiscal bankruptcy.

  • Sgt. York

    Feller I sure don't agree with you,i grew up learnin it was "God, Family and Country" My flag is country so ill keep right on doin the pledge and goin to my church. Thank You

  • ann

    Eveyone in this country should say the pledge or just get out and live elsewhere. There is a movement to rot this country from within and its working. If there is a democratic house in two years and I do believe the nappy headed heathen will make that happen he will reign anther term making him totally destroy our country which has been his plan since he became a senator.We have to do something to stop this madness. His backers are paying his way and they should be called out and exposed for the evil they are trying to do Socialism doesn't work even that evil man Castro said that! WAKE UP AMERICA BEFORE ITS TOO LATE.

    • Harold

      I was sitting at a bus stop Monday night. It was chilly so I was bundled up and the 5 or 6 other folk there were talking on cell phones, smoking, etc.

      All of a sudden an old black guy sitting in front of me in one of those walker/stroller things said; "Have you heard anything about that money the presden gonna give the senior citizens" I said WHAT? Then I recovered, :) and said: "I don't know what your talking about." He said something like [I was so surprised I didn't quite get the exact words] "Yea, the presdens gonna give us some money." I just looked away in amazement!

      Ann, we are at the "proverbial" : "What if there are ONLY 10 righteous?" point!

      IT IS NOT RECOVERABLE!

      SOMEBODY! once said "a house divided against itself, CANNOT stand!"

      The ONLY things we can do are pray for our families! And, by the way I have prayed FOR everybody from Ben Laden, to Castro to BO [BO STINKS!] to be saved and understand Truth. Pray for your enemies, maybe it can't hurt!

  • disqus_bUsZn8CmRz

    Pledge allegience has nothing to do with how much you love your country, by pledgeing to the flag, you are saying you are giving everything you own including your life to it., when you get married , don't you give a Pledge then? a pledge is a pledge God is the only one entitled to my pledge!

  • parthenon1

    There is nothing bad about our country, its the leadership that is corrupt and a danger. i still honor our flag and our nation but I heartily dislike the current presidend and his actions.

  • http://www.facebook.com/825sbrd Russ Fowler

    Love GOD and country with all your heart.

  • raccman

    I pity those who cannot pledge allegiance to our flag and separate religious overtones from the act ! how sad and pathetic !

  • sanchezmikea

    We are pledging to a constitutional nation under God, I don't know what you think you are pledging to. We fight the good fight, and as Paul instructed, we submit even unto death, never confessing that which is not of the Lord. Perhaps this is too much for some, and in the end, even the elect will be fall. I pray to our Lord and God that as for me and my family, we will serve the Lord.

  • Donro

    Dr. Sproul is right on. The Democrats and Republicans have converted Constitutional America into Socialist America and the majority of the voters are mooches, maggots,
    and freeloaders as they demonstrated in the Nov. presidential election. The flag no longer represents the country over which it flies.

  • jsmithcsa

    I disagree with your assessment of the term "indivisible" -- the US *has* been divided, as those of us in the South know all too well. Of course the US can be divided, both politcally (as it is now) or physically as it was in 1860*-1865**.
    The rest of it I also see as a "wish". I have some friends who won't make the pledge because of our current President, but I look at it in the larger picture. The country may not be perfect, but we need to think long-term, and I believe the US will rebound and return to a place I can respect more than I do today.
    Thank for the article -- it was certainly thought provoking.
    *When So Carolina seceded.
    **When the South was forced back into the US against our will.

  • http://www.facebook.com/gmallast Gary Mallast

    RE: Patrick, “The Pledge of Allegiance: A History and Analysis”

    RE: Dr. John W. Baer, “The Pledge of Allegiance, A Short History” (1992)

    RE: R. C. Sproul, Jr., “Should Christians Pledge Allegiance to the United States’ Flag?

    Revising the Pledge

    I agree the current Pledge of Allegiance, written by so-called Christian Socialist and Nationalist Francis Bellamy (1855-1931) is both royalist and absurd. Allegiance must be pledged to something more substantive than a flag. The flag can be made to symbolize ANYTHING by a corrupt Congress or Administration. The question becomes, then, to what should a patriotic person pledge his allegiance?

    While loyalty to place is laudable up to a point, principle is more important than real estate. Most of us had ancestors who came here for good reasons, not just because the U.S. had a higher standard of living. They made the, often wrenching decision to give up long-established loyalties and familiar customs, language, and friends because
    in some manner their home country had become intolerably repressive. My Mallast ancestors came here to avoid the Prussian draft according to a recent book on my family.

    The Declaration of Independence provides our most important guide, as, of course, do Justice Sir Edward Coke’s gloss on Magna Charta in his Institutes, and John Locke’s Two Treatises on Civil Government and the other documents which make up our most important traditions such as “The Petition of Right” (1628), Lilburn, Walwyn, Prince and Overton, “An Agreement of the Free People of England” (1648), John Milton’s “Aeropagitica or On the Freedom of Printing” (1644), “The English Bill of Rights” (1689), “Declarations of the Stamp Act Congress” (1765), and “Declaration of the First Continental Congress (1744).

    First, always is God and the Divine Law. That may have to be omitted to get it through Congress because of militant Atheist opposition. But they really ought to be there.

    Second, the Natural Law, viz, “..the laws of nature and nature’s God…” which is, after all, that part of the Divine Law which can be discerned by human reason without the aid of Sacred Scripture as St. Thomas Aquinas (1217?-1274) points out.

    Then the inalienable rights of every individual which are, after all, the whole point and purpose of government.

    The definition of “liberty” MUST be explicitly stated: The right of every person to engage in ANY action whatsoever that does no overt harm to another without any need to seek prior permission or the payment of any fee or tax. This last item is very important since liberty has been badly undermined by fees and licenses which require people to pay a fee or petition for a license to engage in actions which they have a perfect right to do without having to ask anyone permission such as opening a business, building a house, or buying a gun. You are NOT free to do something if you have to ask “daddy may I?” Likewise, even if only alluded to, slavery is reprehensible.

    Property as a right MUST be explicitly stated and not the “Pursuit of Happiness” fudge. What is more, the property clause must include a clause against arbitrary taking and excessive taxation. The traditional moral limit to taxes is 10% of income. Anything in excess of that makes you and me tax slaves. As Justice Sir William Blackstone pointed out in his Commentaries on the Laws of England (1765), the purpose of taxation is that each person gives up a small portion of his property to better secure the rest of it. It follows that levels of taxation in excess of the minimum to secure each person’s rights are an injustice. The use of the taxing authority for other purposes such as (allegedly) establishing some sort of state of ideal equality is likewise unjust. Further an unlimited
    revenue authority creates an unlimited state since corrupt and arrogant politicians and officials can simply buy off the loyalty of one group against another since they can theoretically vote themselves unlimited funds to do so.

    The rejection of the initiation of coercion in human affairs.

    The rule of law, the equal protection of the laws, and due process of law regardless of race, religion, or social class. Back to our old friends, Article XXIX of Magna Charta and the IVth, Vth, VIth, XIIIth, and XIVth Amendments to the U.S. Constitution and similar provisions in all state Constitutions. Likewise that no one is above the law regardless
    of how high his office.

    The duty to defend ANYONE against ANY violation of his rights by either an individual acting alone or as part of a criminal organization or agent of government.

    The duty to defend the Constitution and fellow citizens from any enemy foreign or domestic.

    The duty to oppose graft or favoritism in laws and government.

    The Constitution of the United States and of the State of which the person is a citizen.

    So let’s take a whack at it.

    “I pledge allegiance to the Law of Nature and Nature’s God; to the inalienable rights of Life, Liberty, and Property of each person; Liberty being the right of each person to engage in any action whatsoever which does no overt harm to another without prior
    permission, payment, or threat; to the rule of law, due process of law, and equal protection of the laws regardless of race, religion, or social class; to my duty to defend any individual from violation of his rights and any attempted slavery or tyranny; to my duty to oppose and expose any attempted use of the power of government and the taxing authority for robbery, graft, or favoritism; and to the Constitution of the United States and my State.”

    Likewise the oath of office for any government position should be revised along similar lines.

    I would appreciate any comments or suggestions.

    I suppose it would take decades, but some sort of effort needs to be made along this line.

    • GiveAwayJimmie

      Gary, Your confused and I dare say--never served in the U.S. Military---or you would understand the meaning of a pledge to our flag.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Toni-Woodbury/100001342611126 Toni Woodbury

      Thank you for this comment.

  • dean29685

    As in many things I agree With R.C. I can not on pledge to the flag which no longer stands for it's historical values. In my life it Is god first my family second and country last.

    • http://www.facebook.com/edward.p.cox Edward P Cox

      With people who think like you we are going to be a third world country. I enlisted in the Army to fight for my country, unlike weasels like you.

      • dean29685

        He jerk read I am also a vet and if you have not looked around lately we already are a third world country I served 10 years how many did you?

      • dean29685

        Read jerk I am also a vet and if you have not looked around lately we already are a third world country I served 10 years how many did you? My country is being run minorities, and illegals, more people on food stamps than ever before, a worse credit rating than China our biggest credit holder. Yes we served but what did we accomplish the country is being run buy those who did not and those who want to turn it into a socialist realm. And I have donated to, campaigned for republicans in every election since I was old enough to vote how abo0ut you?

  • Donald York

    IMHO, i think everyone should show his/her aliegience to our flag, especially those who depend on taxpayers to keep them.

  • pysco

    Rev Sproul misses the point, you can still pledge one nation under god. The nation is the people, not the government, not the liberal media...By taking his stand, he plays into the liberal media's anti christian agenda. And, I, as a Christian will not let the liberals keep me from praying or praising. As a matter of fact I, when saying the Pledge, I hesitate a little and raise my voice, when I say "One Nation Under God"...I wish all others would do that, to show the liberals we are not going away.

  • Guest

    I've pledged allegiance to the flag...and swore an oath to "protect and defend", and I believe God has been with me through it all.

    • oldcoyote

      Same here!!!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/aemoreira81 Adam Moreira

    If you are not pledging allegiance to the flag...and for what it stands...and then demonstrating that you stand for it through actions and words...you cannot be a good patriotic American. It really is that simple. This should not even be a question.

    • gotroy22

      Unless of course you are a lib, then it's ok not to pledge allegiance to the flag of dead white slave owners.

  • http://www.facebook.com/rose.artworks Rose Thistle Artworks

    God's people have always had flags...known as standards in the Bible. http://www.biblestudytools.com/search/?q=standard&t=kjv&s=Bibles&ps=10&p=1 It is representative of standards that people free under God live by and defend for others. The Constitution is based on Common Law from England which is based on the Bible directions of how to govern. You may need to study more in order to know what is God blessed and worthy to be defended with life and blood as has been done by so many of our brave Military and veterans throughout this nation's History.

  • http://www.facebook.com/edward.p.cox Edward P Cox

    What a inferior intellect. Next he will renounce the military pledging to protect and defend the constitution. The pledge to the flag is simply affirmation of loyalty to the principles the country was founded on. Unjust and immoral laws, can be changed under those principles. That is what we pledge allegiance to.

  • Guest

    I have and will continue to "pledge allegiance", and swore a lifetime oath to "protect and defend", and I believe God has been with me through it all...especially the rough times.

  • Tadriandurfee

    I have and will continue to "pledge allegiance" to our flag, and swore a lifetime
    oath to "protect and defend"... I believe God has been with me through
    it all...especially the rough times.

  • mjritter

    Dr. Sproul: for a learned man, your post is about as simplistic and wrong as one can be. I won't waste anytime as most the idiots that post here think like 3rd graders, but one of the things you left out about freedom, is the rights of others. Your actions easily might impinge on the rights of others. The right of Freedom of Speech is not absolute, neither is Freedom of Religion, Right to bear arms. Their are limits. That's what a civilized nation does. As you stated, we are a nation of laws. Because many people do not subscribe to your belief of an after life, should we be forced to subscribe to it?

  • http://www.facebook.com/howard.grant.90 Howard Grant

    PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE HOLY BIBLE
    I pledge allegiance to the Bible, God’s Holy Word.
    I will make it a lamp into my feet and a light unto my path.
    I will hide its word in my heart, that I might not sin against God.

    PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE CHRISTIAN FLAG
    I pledge allegiance to the Christian flag, and to the
    Saviour for whose Kingdom it stands; one Saviour, crucified, risen, and
    coming again, with Life and liberty for all who believe.

  • BasilBuddhaCat@gmail.com

    For what it's worth to the readers here, "under God" was not inserted into the Pledge of Allegiance until 1953, when the infamous ( or famous, depending on your viewpoint) Red Scare and the Army / McCarthy trials were in progress.
    As I see it, being a devout Christian makes believers oppose violence. I understand the Second Amendment protects citizens rights to own a gun - but Jesus didn't arm himself against anyone so neither will I. Jesus wouldn't support pre-emptive attacks on Iraq, Iran or on anyone - so I don't support those actions either.

    • http://www.facebook.com/maranatha.mark Maranatha Mark

      It is true that Yeshua didn't arm Himself, but Peter carried a sword pretty much every where he went. And the Father YHVH did order the Hebrew people to wipe out several cities, down to the livestock, when the Hebrew people came into the Promised Land lead by Joshua. We know from the New Testament that when Yeshua return (2nd Coming) that He will wipe out the armies of the Anti-Christ. So what you seem to think you know about Christianity appears to be the teachings of folks like Mr. Wallis and other Social Christians, who like to engage in false teachings to support their views. Would Yeshua support the 2nd Amendment, absolutely. Luke 22: 36-37 says:

      36 Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. 37 For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: ‘And He was numbered with the transgressors.’[d] For the things concerning Me have an end.”

      38 So they said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.”

      And He said to them, “It is enough.”
      Stick to Buddah's sayings cause you are not up on your understanding of the Bible or Yeshua Hammashiach's heart. It is ture followers of Yeshua believe in peace, but the don't have to be victims. We do believe in love our neighbors and enemies, but we don't have to surrender ours or our family's safety in doing so. As a Follower we don't look for a fight, but we are at liberty to finish it. And while we might forgive you of your transgressions against us or our Holy Trinity, we don't have to condon or support your actions! Perhaps it would serve you will to study the Bible a little bit more before you comment on it.

  • Breezeyguy

    Certainly without the "under God" clause, it strikes me as idolatrous. I never thought about the "indivisible" problem. Of course it's divisible.

  • jim_wright

    Sir; I did not say I pledge anything to Mr. Obama. I pledged allegiance to the flag and the U.S. Constitution and my oath is to the same.

  • http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelrodriquez Michael Rodriquez

    There is a higher moral imperative here that the ideology of socialism makes completely antithethical to the very root of individual sovereign protected by the U.S. Constitution, and the "communal" group sanction that the Socialist promotes to absolve the individual by proxy. Christians are born again by spirit and waterr as individual sovereigns responsible for what and who we support. Thus none of us can in good faith support of a country who has codiciled the shedding of innocent blood legalized by the Roe v. Wade enactment. As a result no Christian can nor should ever pledge allegiance to a n evil sovereign like the United States. Everytime you do you are avowing your tacit approval and support of the evil genocide that is being perpetrated against those who all of us need our protection in allegiance to to our master's words "he who sheds innocent blood shall likewise be cutoff from the same KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. I never pledge allegiance to this country. I have only one master to, his name is Jesus Christ. If you're a Christian he is yours alone, also.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/James-A-DeHart/100003260975568 James A. DeHart

    Christ, our father, placed us in America, with all her bounty. It is for all of us to share and prosper within. Pledging allegiance, only states we will protect our way of life, not replacing Jesus. Any man that does not honor his country, should find another country to dwell in.

  • bowtonoone2

    My American flag and Obama's American flag are different. I'm a vet AND an American. I don't think Obama is either.

  • Mr T

    I do not pledge myself, nor my allegiance to,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,a flag.
    It makes me sad, but that is just the emotion that comes from finally being learned enough to realize that this country is not, and possibly never was what we have been taught. I believe we have been conned. All things in this world are temporary. Once one knows this, there is no need to hang on.

  • The Old Man

    I think he is just being picky about everything.
    I served in the military and I know what the flag stands for and I will always pledge my allegiance to my flag and my country.
    This is a highly educated man that is picking apart each and every word to suit his own thoughts. I would bet he never served a day in combat or he would feel differently

  • Old observer

    "Render unto Caesar......" when asked about who they should pay, Jesus told them that they should render unto Caesar what is due, and unto God what He is due. I will still pledge allegiance--to the country we love--I do not have to like our leader--in fact, i find him despicable and unworthy of my respect. but God has given us this great country--the one we are likely to lose if we don't wise up, repent, and begin living by God's rules. When people start living as they please with no concern for others, becoming greedy, and selecting alternate lifestyles God calls abomination, look out. it was for these reasons He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah--places that were corrupt in every way possible. When you look at lifestyles, politics, and greedy business practices today, it sure bears a strong resemblance to those long-ago cities.

    • Harold

      Do you have any clue what Jesus said? !!!!

      Everything belongs to God. Every atom! Every Galaxy! Every LIFE!
      Nothing BELONGS to Caesar! Literally!

      That "coin" may have gone to Caesar's treasury. It may have eventually found its way to Caesars pocket [figuratively speaking 'cause' I don't think the togas had pockets]. But in Truth, it did NOT actually BELONG to Caesar. It BELONGED to God!

      The illiterates [libs] who foolishly say; "our body, our choice, are merely repeating a satanic "mantra!" Nothing, I am allowed to hold, from the dirt to the dollar, belongs to me, including my own body! Everything belongs to God!

      I sometimes if Jesus didn't have a little tiny smile on his face, knowing exactly what he was doing and saying.

  • http://www.facebook.com/howard.mctaggart Howard Joseph McTaggart

    Definately Yes!!!
    I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, ONE NATION UNDER GOD INDIVISABLE WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.these words must be remembered even if those in power don't seem to believe in them the Patriotic core of the USA needs to remember the words and what they mean.

  • http://www.facebook.com/gary.rose.129 Gary Rose

    Every Real American Legal Citizen Should My My. Our Mysteryman President dont want to does not agree with Allah BaBa I Guess.Anyhow anybody that Really Likes America will do it because you should for your Country.P.S. Obama cant say that is he Legal or Illegal All his Relatives so Far Illegal but still liveing off Taxpayer Money? If your Mexican or Related to Mysteryman got it made in America>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jared-Myers/1177000219 Jared Myers

    I don't have a huge problem with saying the Pledge of Allegiance, but I wouldn't oppose it being replaced -- perhaps a few lines of the Declaration of Independence instead?

  • dHb

    God gave us reason not religiion

  • http://www.facebook.com/howard.walker.127 Howard Walker

    God has always been a big part of our nation so I will pledge to our flag because I believe our flag represents the best of humanity under God.

  • gbandy

    In my life I have pledged my allegiance to the Flag, I also made my pledge to the Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, 4-H and the Army. I am definitely not offended by the words "One Nation under GOD" either.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Toni-Woodbury/100001342611126 Toni Woodbury

      If the pledge said, "One nation under God," I would recite that with no problem. However, a comma was added after nation. So the pledge reads, "One nation, under God," --two separate things describing our nation. As a result, I always thought that the "one nation" part signifies the unConstitutional idea that a state cannot secede, that states' rights do not trump the powers of the national government, and such like. Unity at all costs. Unity at the expense of liberty, even. I have a problem with that comma. Since I was a teenager, I always left the comma out. I stood out like a sore thumb at public gatherings because I would plow forward, out of unison, while others were putting in that great pause where the comma is. Now I have the understanding, and also the courage, to not say the pledge, because I am a true patriot who loves this country and will not pledge allegiance to Obama and the present thugs in government. If you don't want Obama and similar thugs representing America, let's put a stop to it. But as long as that is what America is, I can pledge obedience to what America was, but not to what America has become. Pledging allegiance is pledging obedience. I do not pledge obedience to and complicity with tyrrany, murder, stealing, etc.

  • Joe

    as Christians we have a duty to honor our nation,for all it has given us.the bible states that we should honor: family,community/country and God. not really in that order.

    that does not mean how ever ,those that are in power. honor the position,not the man/woman what ever the case.we have a duty also to defend what this great nation has given us. Through the help of God.

  • http://www.facebook.com/maranatha.mark Maranatha Mark

    I understand what Mr Sproul is saying, and I can see his point. We are not to worship this country, it's leaders or the constutition, but we can, as believers, fight for this country and serve it. As followers we understand that all authority (including the Obama administration) are ordain by YHVH. And we are to observe the laws of the land as long as they don't come into conflict with YHVH's or Yeshua's commandments. The Father has given the governments the power to declare and fight wars. But at the same time we are to do it with respect to the Father's commandments. If your government orders the genocide of a people, I believe you have to make a decision on wether to follow such an order, and if you do as your told, I think you are to be held responsible for it to a certain extent. As for Iraq, their leaders had declared war on the U.S. and West, we were well within our rights to attack them in order to protect our citizen. The same can be said of Iran, we have a right to attack them if we so deemed it necessary to protect our nation and its citizens.

    Romans 13 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.
    To many this would appear that we are to obey Obama without question, but according to our founding documents, "We the People" are the highest authroity in this land, and the President works for us, and thus if he or his administration turn on us, we have a right to remove him and his ilk, from power. Thus the monumental importants of hiring (electing) good and just people to office!

  • Sandra Lee Smith

    Very sound points, presented here, Dr Sproul, and concerns I've also been feeling, although I feel another hypocrisy as well, and that is that this nation is very much divided today; more so than in January of 1860, before the opening shots of our Civil War, with states seceeding. But instead of a single dividing line {Mason-Dixon line}, we're fragmenting along class lines, racial lines, political ideology lines, language lines, and even religious lines all at the same time. As for Divine judgment; our leaders brought that down on our heads when they gave the same wrong answer, following 9/11, as Israel did, as recorded in the book of Isaiah, 9:10; and this on top of the infiltration and neutraizing of all the denominations, so that the Church as a Spiritual defense is much smaller and more scattered, globally, than it would appear..

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jack-Broderick/100000404215715 Jack Broderick

    Dr. Sproul being a theological graduate asks a question, "should christians pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States, and he doesn't think we should but I beg to differ with him.
    All the good doctor has to do is read the book of Matthew where it says, " Render therefore
    unto Ceaser the things which are Ceaser's; and unto God the thinks that are God's.
    That means you owe allegiance to the state which is of this mortal world, and your allegiance to God is a spritual allegiance.

    • Brabado

      Perhaps, the good Dr.ought to consider, seriiously, to go back to theological school, and revisit his misconceptions about what he is taling about!
      Real pitiful!

    • Harold

      Do you have any clue what Jesus said? !!!!

      Everything belongs to God. Every atom! Every Galaxy! Every LIFE!
      Nothing BELONGS to Caesar! Literally!

      That "coin" may have gone to Caesar's treasury. It may have
      eventually found its way to Caesars pocket [figuratively speaking
      'cause' I don't think the togas had pockets]. But in Truth, it did NOT
      actually BELONG to Caesar. It BELONGED to God!

      The illiterates [libs] who foolishly say; "our body, our choice", are
      merely repeating a satanic "mantra!" Nothing, I am allowed to hold,
      from the dirt to the dollar, belongs to me, including my own body!
      Everything belongs to God!

      I sometimes wonder if Jesus didn't have a little tiny smile on his face, knowing exactly what he was doing and saying.

  • a marine .

    YES the pledge of allegiance should be said and taught to our children along with the meaning of the pledge and what it stands for, We seem to have forgotten that. It seems that people like me that are in or near their 60's or 70's or 80's that tried to live by the pledge are few and far between. It is our fault that we did not instill in our children the importance of the FLAG. Our FLAG is not worshiped but is the symbol of our nation and for all the good things it stands for. Yes over time we as a nation have made mistakes but there is no man or group of men or women or company or country that is free from mistakes. The idea is to learn from our mistakes and make things right. We as a nation do not seek lands in foreign countries but we do get involved when its in our national interest. The flag stands for freedom and any where in the world that our flag is flown projects our image, At times our image has been tarnished by individuals and for that we must make things right, but.

    our flag should never bow or be hidden or be disgraced by its citizens and especially by the leaders of this country.

    I still get cold chills when i see our flag flying, the pledge means a lot to this inactive MARINE and OUR NATIONAL ANTHEM MAKES ME PROUD. But sad to say that the state of the nation brings tears to my eyes. A Lot of people say that GOD will lead us through this turmoil, I disagree, The spirit of GOD will be with us but GOD gave us the brains and he hopes we will do the right thing.GOD helps those that helps themselves
    We as a nation have strayed far from the word of GOD but its never to late to receive. his blessing and strength. We must make some hard choices very soon as to what we are going to do, Will we be like sheep and be herded or will be men and women and do the right thing to take our nation back. The choice is yours, I have already made up my mind and that is to defend the flag and all that it stands for,against all enemies foreign and domestic

    • Chuck

      I agree with you completely, but as the last election proved, that country has truly '...gone with the wind.' We have become a socialist country lorded over by a mysterious dictator and a band of thieves and thugs intent upon our toatal destruction. Tens of millions, apparently, approve of his 'gimme' government. Eight million white men did not vote in November and 3,000,000 fewer Republicans voted, than in '08.

  • Emanon65

    Tampapatriot, what are the people of Haiti and Cuba suppose to rise up with, broom sticks, sticks and stones, or perhaps kitchen knives? They have no second amendment rights, which our regime is planning to take away for those very same reasons.
    Do you honestly believe that WW II was won by Europe with its citizens denied their arms? If it were not for us we'd be saluting Heil Hitler.
    Imagine if the people in the Warsaw ghetto were armed, perhaps they would have had the chance to survive and the enemy defeated there.
    Nations who lack that ability cannot win against their tryranical regime. I know from experience.

  • Paula

    If you are an American there is NO reason NOT to Pledge your Allegiance to OUR flag and Country!

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jared-Myers/1177000219 Jared Myers

      I take it you didn't read the article?

  • agbjr

    This question was answered by the great Red Skelton nearly half a century ago ... .

    Red Skelton explains the Pledge of Allegiance:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZBTyTWOZCM

  • http://www.facebook.com/butch.stevens Butch Stevens

    Absolutely. If we want to keep this country we have to continually seek His blessing. When I say the pledge, the part "under God", has special meaning. I believe that we are asking for His blessing every time we say this. It's a privilege to say the pledge but it is also an honor and a responsibility. I also say a short prayer every time the pledge is said.

  • Chuck

    They should pledge allegiance to Obama. He is making and enforcing his own laws. Their is little, or no, Republican opposition in the Congress. Speaker Boehner is totally ineffective in the House and Sen Reid ran all over the Republicans in the Senate. They lost three Senate seats to the Democrats and gave Texas its first Cuban/Canadian/American Senator. In less than a month, he has pissed off people in both parties with his confrontational style. He will not get any choice committee assignments, nor support for any Texas projects.

  • juansantiago

    You can do both, unless you think that allegiance means unconditional agreement with, or worship of, the State.

  • Fenderfodder

    I certainly can't answer for anyone else, but for me it is a personal conviction. Are we a nation under God? I believe we are. Regardless of the disbelief of others, or the beliefs of others, we are still under God...in my belief. Are we indivisible? Perhaps. Does that change the hope that we are not? The words in the pledge are just that...words. Unless you work at making them more than that. We recite the pledge in my home, my wife, our 16 year old daughter, and I. I would like to echo "Screeminmeeme's" thoughts as well.

  • http://www.facebook.com/marcelle.joseph.14 Marcelle Joseph

    Amen. we so need God back into our lives. America has sinned against God's laws. We just have to continue to pray and not give up, for God so loved the world that HE gave us HIS only Begotten SON to die for our sins. Thank HIM for HIS blessing each day, no matter what. In Jesus name I pray, Amen

  • soldiermom11

    This country, as polluted as it has become, is still the only place in the world where freedom is gift from God, is protected.

  • lois

    I am proud of my God, and I am proud of my country. I hate what is happening to my country and I wish the people in office, would stand up and do something before it is too late.

  • Brabado

    In my opinion, anyone that is ripping the Benefits - any benefit, including the Freedom and LIberty to be stupid - by living in the United States of America, must recite the Pledge the Allegiance, including those idiots, and misguided Socialists, Liberals, Progressive and Democrats, that waste their minds, spliting hairs, as to what is the meaning of each of the words, in the Pledge to Our Flag and Country so they can be politically correct - a/k/a cowards - unless you are a hard core Communist, who also supported the removal of Prayers, from our Schools and is madly chasing every Christian Cross/Symbol along every road, & highway and Public Places, throughout our Great Nation...

    If you don't like it, feel free to move to Iran, Syria, China or Cuba. . Our Great Nations is in GOD'S HANDS! Thank you very much... Better learn to live with it...

    IN GOD WE TRUST AND ASK HIM TO HELP THE LOST SOULS AND THEIR ALLIES, THAT WONDER UPON THE LAND OF THE FREE, AND THE HOME OF THE BRAVE...

    • http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelrodriquez Michael Rodriquez

      You typically confuse government largesse with entitled treatment to assuage your conscience that you feeel obligated to "follow" like politicians have come to expect.

      • Brabado

        It is evident that you have difficulty making yourself understood, don't you?
        Re-write what you are trying to say, if you can, so your non-sense may be addresssed.... Take you time Mr. Rodriquez!
        GOD IS WATCHING OVER OUR GREAT NATION, 24/7!

        • http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelrodriquez Michael Rodriquez

          With all due respect, my words may fall on deaf-ears, but their meaning is self-explanatory to anyone who is not afraid of the truth.

  • http://www.facebook.com/bobbi.henderson1 Bobbi Henderson

    I am very patriotic. I say the pledge and feel that it is.fine with God. i am not praying to the flag. I merely am acknowledging all the things that the flag represents to me and that I pledge to be ever faithful to.".it is a belief. "...... .But because of the human side of man that wants to control everything we find ourselves today...in the position that you elaberate on....If I am not mistaken a bit of the evil that we know today began.and has. been .cloaked by our great religious organizations..None of us are perfect but I refuse to believe that we are as you portray us to be. Don't blame the flag! .I believe in America and Americans.... and I think that things will turn around...we must keep the faith and work toward health, wealth and prosperity for all of us that we might then reach out to others around the world....just as we have always done. I think that most Americans will always cling to the vision of our Founding Fathers..it is born in us. A part of what is lacking today is that we have not allowed our children this same connection (vision). We continue to poison their little minds against the country that we (most of use) . as a whole really stand for. And God has not forsaken us! And another thing ...even the poorest in America these days are not really poor by world standards. Our poor sport cell phones and have computers, etc. We must couint our blessings. .Thank God for our country and pray for our Leaders! .
    .

  • http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelrodriquez Michael Rodriquez

    The UNITED STATES government does not believe in GOD it is a secular progressive godless state and I as a Christian will never pledge allegiance to a sovereign nor the flag that denies HIS authority.

  • freedomringsforall

    Absolutely

    I pledge allegiance to our Flag under God.

    That is the acknowledgement that God is above all.

    God did not say he is giving us a utopia on earth for this period of time.

    It may have started that way in the past until we proved unworthy.

    It may end that way in the future if he decides that is his will.

    But at this time the human race on this planet does not live in a state of utopia.

    Governance of the human race on this planet is a necessity at this time.

    So, the only way to have a just governance on this planet at this time is to have a governance under the rules of God.

    And these United States of America is the best attempt at that that mankind has ever experienced.

    So, when i pledge allegiance to our flag and our nation under God i do so with all the conviction and gratitude in the world for God gifting me with the unbelievable great fortune of being born into the greatest effort to honor God and his creation within the most just and noble attempt at righteous governance ever in the history of mankind.

  • sunnyblues

    You have a valid point, Dr. Sproul. What once were true and powerful words, no longer are. Oh, how I wish they were. It will hardly seem to matter much longer because in this ever so "enlightened 21st century", the "one world order" will demand our allegiance and our once proud pledge along with our Constitution will be...how do you say?...so old school. But...as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=629591346 Gary Jones

    I believe in my oath and pledged to fight tyrannical governments foreign and domestic. The Progressives have no integrity nor any Allegiance,and are completely vacant of honor.. I did not take an oath to protect a president who has time and time again proven through words, deeds and actions that he is an enemy to the country and the citizens. The World Order politicians on both sides of the isle are Our enemies. Their lying, committing treasonous acts and practicing financial terrorism on Our country. while starting small smoke screens and division of the people.

    • Bill Tyner

      Right on! I swore 3 oaths to preserve and protect the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies foreign and domestic. Sometimes it's hard when one understands that the military is a tool of diplomats - that when they utterly fail, they send off the willing patriotic troops to do the job they couldn't do. Lincoln failed as a diplomat and so 650,000 American's died fighting the diplomats failure. That's what's hard to take. The pledge is a way to round up patriots - nationalists I suppose some would say. It's very important that patriotism be emphasized to keep the pool of fighters as large as possible otherwise the foolish bureaucrats will bluster without anything to back them up. So we sing the National Anthem and repeat the Pledge of Allegiance. However, the Oath of Allegiance means far more to me as it specifies enemies of the Constitution which is what enumerates most of our freedoms. Freedom of Religion is such a Right and so I come down on the protection of the Constitution as most important. Quibbling, maybe but if we lose the Constitution, the extremists and fanatics will fill the void.

  • http://www.bibleversusconstitution.org/ Ted R. Weiland

    "The Pledge of Allegiance, in its original form, was written by Francis Bellamy, a liberal socialist. The intent of the pledge was to foster allegiance to a centralized federal government. The phrase "under God" was not added to the pledge until 1954.

    "Of greater significance, "one nation under God" is a hollow phrase if, in fact, our nation is not following Yahweh and His laws as stipulated in His Holy Word. With a government
    and the majority of the people sanctioning infanticide, homosexuality, pornography and other abominations, we are not even close to being a truly Christian nation at this time in our history. Therefore, the question is not whether our pledge should include the words "under god." The question is whether we should be pledging allegiance whatsoever to
    our American government or to the flag which represents it."

    For more, see "The Pledge of Allegiance: Is It Under God?" at http://www.bibleversusconstitution.org/onlineBooks/ThePledgeofAllegiance.html.

  • ICOYAR

    If I have to go against the United States to keep my own faith in God and Jesus, to protect myself and those around me, then so be it.

  • Tadriandurfee

    I have and will continue to "pledge allegiance", and swore a lifetime
    oath to "protect and defend", and I believe God has been with me through
    it all...especially the rough times.

  • http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelrodriquez Michael Rodriquez

    As long as Roe v Wade is the law concerning GOD's small human creations this countrywill continue to be cursed and attacked continuously by our enemies. That is the promise by GOD when a country turns to wickedness. READ YOUR BIBLE.

  • auhunter

    meeme, You said it all. I tried to come up with a better answer to the subject at hand, but couldn't. Between the Pledge and my Oath, when I went in the service nearly 59 years ago is how I live my life. It is up to those of us who believe in these ideals to make the changes needed to see that the government is held to these standards and to change it if it doesn't.

  • gwedem5995

    Anyone residing in this country, no matter the religion, should pledge allegiance to the American Flag and if they don't they should leave.

    • http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelrodriquez Michael Rodriquez

      Just to make sure you're all in unison repeating the mindlessness of it but its meaningless for preborns who are dying while you say it.

  • http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelrodriquez Michael Rodriquez

    Because?

  • General

    WOW, this is the FIRST TIME I have EVER seen a
    writer tell the truth like it should BE, in relation to serving God
    properly and paying RESPECT to those who deserve it. He mentions GOD, as
    a being deserving of respect, although the writer may
    not realise that Matthew 5-v17 onwards is not understood very well, in
    that it is Jesus who points the way forward right from Adam, who He
    spoke to in Eden, and asks us all to HONOUR GOD by keeping HIS DAY of
    rest HOLY! - Many have been MISLED by churches, or at least have been
    ignorant of that requirement, so that we don't end up having THE MARK OF
    THE BEAST ON OUR HANDS, or worse... in our HEADS (DELIBERATE KNOWLEDGE
    DENIAL of God's LAWS requirements.) This means that patriots must serve GOD FIRST, and only decent men after that fact!

  • jjinfl

    What a ridiculous question. Of course Christians should pledge to our flag. We try to be responsible citizens who care for freedom and the democratic principles our forefathers fought and died for, and we respect the service men and women who are still giving life and limb in our behalf. I support our Constitution, the ideals of America and its democracy, and our American way of life. I'll proudly stand up next to you and defend it still today, 'cause there ain't no doubt I love this land, God Bless the U.S.A.

  • General

    do you want to know where the root of all "Babylon" or confusion lies as far as churches go? - And never forget that when churches go wrong, most of their sheep (flock) go down the tubes with it. - It is in the words of Jesus (Y'shua) in Matthew 5-v17 on! We can also see a discussion on this at "Come Out Of Babylon" on FaceBook, if you really care about whether we are on the right or wrong track. Be Educated In The Lord's WAY.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jdrew79 James Drew

    So, according to the comments I've read below, if you do not regurgitate a loyalty oath penned by an avowed socialist and that is full of lies, then you should be forced to leave the "land of the free". Really?

    Thank God we homeschool our children so they will not be indoctrinated to worship the state.

  • http://www.facebook.com/lloyd.revalee Lloyd Revalee

    I pledge allegiance to my beloved country every day of my life, and the way I do it is of not significance. I say "I pledge allegiance to our flag, and to the country for which it stands", just out of habit. The flag is just a symbol of what our country stands for, and for the sacrifices our Founding Fathers made to give us OUR CONSTITUTION and the greatest country in the world. Our rights are God given rights, so pledging allegiance is also praising our God.

  • http://www.facebook.com/RobertAlexander.Salvage Robert Alexander

    Not a God fearing man.

    Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am YAHWEH your God.

  • Michael g.

    I have no problem with the Pledge. Unfortunately others do. But then, I have a problem with those who degrade or denigrate the Pledge. If they don't like the Pledge then perhaps they should stay away from events where it is said. If they don't like the US, perhaps they should move to some place where none of these things take place... And leave the rest of us Alone!

    • http://www.facebook.com/jdrew79 James Drew

      Or leave those of us alone that do not mindlessly regurgitate a loyalty oath to the state.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jdrew79 James Drew

    I'm just curious, but when has America ever been the "land of the free"? When we were enslaving an entire race? Or was it when we were committing genocide against another, then shoving them on reservations? Or was it when we rounded up Americans of Japanese descent and threw them in armed camps? Or was it when we were letting dogs and fire hoses loose on people for the crime of being black? Or is it now as we throw a million people every year in jail for possessing a plant that has never killed an individual? Sorry, I'm just confused. When exactly were we the "land of the free"?

    I don't regurgitate this nationalistic loyalty oath because my allegiance belongs only to God and my family. Government is the greatest threat we face w/ regards to our natural rights, yet the sheeple mindlessly pledge their loyalty to the state.

    Oh, and for the subsequent calls for me to leave the country...NO. For all the talk of the Founders this, and the Founders that, please show me the loyalty oath they required. America existed, under the Constitution, for over 100 years before the socialist, Francis Bellamy, penned his loyalty oath. It was another 50 years before the words "under God" were added. So, please stop talking of the Founders when you discuss this issue. They wouldn't have agreed with you.

    • Harold

      I do disagree with some of your points in the first paragraph. But after that I thought your points were very good.

      • http://www.facebook.com/jdrew79 James Drew

        How can you disagree w/ anything in my first paragraph? I simply listed actions that our government has committed.

        • Harold

          OK.

          As a former instructor in a rehab program AND a former street cop before, I know personally that that "little plant" has physically, spiritually, and morally destroyed thousands of lives. Of course I think the executives of Enron, Wall Street, etc. who steal the "retirement" of old folks are guilty of destroying [IE murder] lives and should be treated as such.

          As for the Japanese, being at war, and knowing what the Japanese had already done exhibiting extreme cruelty in their conquests, at that time [at THAT time] it probably seemed the right thing to do. My dad was in the navy in the pacific fleet in WWII, and an uncle was at Pearl Harbor 12-7-41, which may color my thinking, but my mother literally hated THE Japanese till the day she died.

        • http://www.facebook.com/jdrew79 James Drew

          No, you are full of it. Marijuana is not addictive. Has never killed an individual in recorded history. It does not harm the body physically, spiritually, or morally.

          As for the Japanese, they were American citizens. I do not care if it seemed like the right thing to do. It was wrong, both legally and morally.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jeffrey-Dollar/100001851957705 Jeffrey Dollar

    I read this article with a little trepidation as it was something I have been feeling for a long time. I grew up believing in the old America, where the men stood for truth and defended the weak. This country is so far from what I was taught, it is heartbreaking to see how far we have fallen.

    RC Jr. is absolutely correct on these points - when this flag stands for a country that rips unborn children out of the womb and calls it a right, and then refuses to recognize the Creator our founders said is the Author of our liberty, we need to re-evaluate our allegiances. I would wholeheartedly pledge allegiance to our Constitution, but not this Federal government which supports everything our founders opposed and opposed everything they supported. As pointed out in the article, we better hope that this nation is "divisible". There is no possible way to co-exist any longer with the Left, and will of necessity have to part ways in some fashion. If not, it is a short march to the re-education and death camps that are on the horizon once they gain complete power.

  • Don39

    If they can not support this nation they should find one they can!

    • http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelrodriquez Michael Rodriquez

      Once again allegiance is not loyalty. Your allegiance iis to GOD and it is eternal just like the unalienable rights of the 1st Ten Amendments, where loyalty is given as a sign of respect and can change due condition.

  • QuisPercusit

    Is this a multiple choice or a true, false or essay question? Duh Only if they really believe what they are saying and promise never to vote for a liberal progressive democrat ever again
    and only if they beg for forgivness if they have voted for the Fraud that's in the white house now.

  • http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelrodriquez Michael Rodriquez

    The pledge says "WITH JUSTICE FOR ALL". Now square that with 55 million innocent unborn children in gestation murdered by abortion. Your pets get better treatment. Where is justice for them?

    • Max

      a fetus is not a child. When a fetus turns I to a child he or she can sustain life on his her own. That's why abortion is legal. Abortion does not kill children. If you don't believe in science, good for you. Do t make everyone else suffer from your ignorance.

      • http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelrodriquez Michael Rodriquez

        With all due respect you are incorrect in everything you stated except the child goes through a gestation before delivery. In all phases conception,gestation, and delivery the child never stops being a human being.

        • Harold

          You just called God a Liar!

          [I AM PARAPHRASING THIS] but He said He knew 'us' when we were in the mothers womb. He knew YOU BEFORE you were born. Kinda hard to "know" a blob, dontcha think!

        • http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelrodriquez Michael Rodriquez

          Only if your understanding is confined to JOHN 8:44-47

        • Harold

          Jer 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations." [ESV]

          A fetus is God's "friend." I suppose you could say I "know" a rock, but that would be carrying it a little far.

          John LITERALLY "jumped" in Mary's [Mother of John the Baptist] womb, when Mary the Mother of Christ approached. An unknowing blob would not "know" [look up the definition] HIS Creator! As I said you have called God a liar!

          To add to the argument, the know-nuthins [libs of course] who claim, "our bodies, our lives" are full of bull.

          NOTHING I am allowed to hold on to, whether dirt or dollars or MY life, belongs to me! God owns every atom in this universe. Reference my observation of the famous; "render unto Caesar" quote. Nothing belonged to Caesar! It all, from the atom to the galaxy, belongs to God.

          He does give us "permission" to kill those who kill the innocent. The best reading of "thou shalt not kill" is "thou shalt not murder" which means killing innocent lives.

        • http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelrodriquez Michael Rodriquez

          Parsing the stages of gestation may give clinicians the ability diagnose development but no where in my answer did I make your assertion and faulty conclusion relevant. GOD forms each spiritually a perfect specimen of HIS work and knows you by name. You are conceived by corruption of the flesh. That is why every human being must be born again to renew that spiritual lnowledge. GOD does not concern himself with cllinicality of gestation. HIS design contains automaticity.which left its term is a human child. When the child is aborted those have spilt blood will answer for that soul which failed live as GOD'S own purpose.

        • Harold

          Too much liberalism!

          Taking an "innocent" human life, is murder. You can displace the event by: "When the child is aborted those have spilt blood will answer for that soul which failed live as GOD'S own purpose."

          But that is only a discoloration of the Truth. The event, whether it is an assault on the mother which also kills the 1 month old baby in her womb is no less murder than the story on the Drudge Report this day concerning a "botched" late term abortion in which the mother died. God is offended by either killing of an innocent.

  • http://www.facebook.com/michael.dejesus.16940 Michael De-Jesus

    Mr RC as a Born Again Veteran Christian--you have insulted me and every other God believing Vet there is!. Let me ask you this question--and I do have the right to ask-How many denominations are there? I am totally independent--but if some one subverts the Bible does that stop me from believing in it?! NOOOOO! The same goes for that Flag, Our Constitution etc. Just because today they do not follow it--does NOT take the meaning away of what it stands for! You so are an Idiot! Though I will say this much--that very pledge and law intitles your own opinion! Put that thought into that STUPID head of yours! Hey if your ashamed of this place why are you still living in it!

    • http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelrodriquez Michael Rodriquez

      With all due respect, one cannot say the founding document have the same meaning, only when read, but unless all citizens are held to the standard of the original intent the law becomes. corrupted and you end up with government officials thinking they are above the law. That's how we have the total corruption in this country. Now you want to pledge your life to the malfeasant corrupt, I'm sure the men in DC will love you for it.

  • http://facebook.com/pkeyrich Philip K. Eyrich

    This seems to be the same teaching as Jehovah's Witnesses, except they do not have exceptions for pledges to support any nation.

  • http://www.facebook.com/GHEnglish Gary English

    Amen Brother. Trouble ahead trouble behind

  • Liberty Lover

    You should not pledge allegiance to the flag for a myriad of reasons besides the ones stated here. If you look into the history of the pledge and what its intended purpose was... not only should Christians NOT make the pledge, NO ONE should... especially if you love liberty. The Pledge was born of Marxism and Socialism. It was written by Francis Bellamy, look him up. Look up the history of the pledge. In fact, HITLER took ideas from it, the "Bellamy Salute" (the original way to hold your hand during the pledge) became the NAZI SALUTE. It was changed in the US around the time we entered WW2. If you don't believe me... LOOK IT UP. There are film strips and photos showing this to be true. Too many people do not understand their history, and so they participate in things that are anathema to their beliefs out of ignorance and misinformation.

    The core reasons why the pledge exists are to:
    1. Condition the children... and eventually society, to worship the state.
    2. To put a boot-heel in the Confederates who tried to secede.
    3. To advance the Marxist-Socialist agenda.

    Look into the song "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" while you are at it... I doubt you will ever sing it again.

    • Max

      Please of look up at least some simple explanations, documentation of Fascism (Hitler) and Communism (Karl Marx, various soviet leaders). You experts use these two political theories interchangably. That is totally wrong and an ignorant misunderstanding of history and political theory. Borders on juvenile. Since you appear to be a bit older, do t blame your ignorance on commie liberal teachers. It's just pure hatred that clouds clear and logical thinking. Hate Obama but forGods sake understand what you hate. Not too much to ask. There are some simple books and other documentation available which surely you can understand. .

      • Liberty Lover

        Perhaps you should take lessons in comprehension. I did not say that Marxism and Hitler's fascism were similar ideologies. I said that the pledge was based on Marxism and Socialism, and that Hitler (a socialist... look up the term 'Nazi') took ideas from Bellamy. NOT from any standpoint concerning COMMUNISM (I clearly stated Bellamy was a Socialist... and Hitler railed against Communists), but in the concept of indoctrination of children, nationalism, etc.

        If you would take the time to do as I suggested, and actually looked up Francis Bellamy, the history of the Pledge, etc. In addition to actually reading what I wrote, you would have (hopefully) NOT posted your response.

        Furthermore... what part of my post had anything to say about Obama? That's right... NONE OF IT. So, I guess the best advice I can give you is:

        Understand what you read (re-read it if necessary); Think twice before you reply; Try to know what you are talking about before being condescending to others; and stop assuming you are smarter than everyone else.

  • tdupuy

    There is no question that America currently functions in violation with the principles and ideals stated in our pledge, but that should in no way preclude us from aspiring to and pledging to those principles. Because our federal government is increasingly in violation of The Constitution, should we suggest it's no longer necessary for our elected officials to take an oath in support of The Constitution?

    Instead, I would suggest that today the pledge is more important than ever and we should be encouraged to discuss just what it is that we are pledging our allegiance to and why. Likewise for our Declaration of Independence, The Constitution and The Bill of Rights. Otherwise we will deviate further and further from our American principles.

  • okihadit

    We should pledge to our flag, the flag of the United States, and be proud of it, it stands for our country. We have cowards and crimmals in our government at this time, but no one will put our flag down. Is what i see is this is a way for obuma not to pledge to our flag, and this is all propaganda, to try to get the fools of this country not to repect the AMERICAN FLAG. what the the hell do they want to do now, take our flag away? what is this, obuma wants his own flag, or he wants to change our flag?

  • Leonard Urban

    Your country gives people the freedom to decide to sin or not sin--not unlike God, himself. God could, if he wished, stop you from sinning at every turn if he chose. He doesn't, He lets you choose, and your choice is what he'll judge. Please don't hate your country. The country is NOT the government or its politicians--it's the people. You and me, and yes, even the non-believers. But, the non-believers can change, and hearts are one thing that God DOES change. Be patient...

  • Max

    New poll...y remember those things that predicted Romney win show voters support for Republicans at an all time low Nd tea party at 28%. Obama has 60% approval. Ain't that great. Just think if that poll that said Romney the man, he would. E Pres now. Maybe these old polls are just commie run ones. Likemrhe ones that correctly pegged Obama to win. LOL at the great white hope.

  • scrambo

    i think the problem with the pledge lies in this: I read the pledge was developed and advocated to advance the progressive agenda and that is at some point (now) when the kids are dumbed down to the point of complete lack of historical understanding and inability to think critically, they will believe in 100% allegeance to the government...when I was young we had a very nationalistic God fearing respect for nation, yet we were taught about our govt in boy scouts, high school, sunday school. We had well rounded exposure to a myriad of truths about who we were, where we came from, and what we stood for...I contend that the kids today have little more than confusion, and they are being propogandized to become good little socialists and environmentalists and little more...the pledge of the allegeance to day is little more than one of many planks that produces loyal statists....

  • stinkerbean

    Do Christians not fight for our freedom? As I see it if you do not want to pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America then pack your happy ass up and go to some place where you can have all the freedom to do as you please. I am tired of the Athiests, Gays Lesbians and whatnot who are ruining our Country because we don't see things their way even though they don't want to see things any way but theirs. We are not all the same and we do not all see things the same but we Do have to understand that everyone in the United States has that right. As I say if you don't like it there are planes leaving almost every minute. We are the United States and Freedom is what we are all about. That is why people from all walks of life want to live here and yet we have these outcasts that want to destroy that. Well I say I wish you well and get the Hell Out.

  • T. Edward Price

    Why the outrage? The unpopular truth is that Americans, especially Christians, have
    become so deceived in believing there is ANYTHING at all noble about the pledge. The worst offenders are those "pseudo- conservative" Christians who consider the pledge as almost sacred. Never have the words of Hosea been more appropriate: "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge." (Hosea 4:6)

    The pledge is anti-Christian and anti-American. The author of the pledge,
    Francis Bellamy, was a disgraced Northern Baptist minister run out of Boston, in 1891, by his OWN congregation, due to his socialist sermons which frequently denied the
    deity of Christ. He was the co-founder of the Society of Christian Socialists , and held in almost as high regard as Karl Marx, among radical socialists. His personal philosophy was one of "state run" capitalism, otherwise known as fascism. The pledge was part of a huge national advertising campaign to sell flags to every public school in America. The largest proponent of the push for the pledge was the National Education Association. That alone should raise a red flag! The pledge should be especially offensive to Christians of southern heritage. Lincoln proposed an "Oath of Allegiance" that would be required to be taken by all southerners. President Harrison took this idea and expanded upon it. When school children first recited the pledge, the hand was NOT placed over
    the heart, as we have seen for the last seventy years. The original custom was to extend the right arm forward. This was only changed at the advent of WW2. In other words, the pledge was originally recited in the exact same fashion as the NAZI salute. This is referred to as the "Bellamy salute". The NAZI's actually took their salute from OUR recitation of the pledge. As hard as it is to admit, this is but another example of how we have been conquered by our enemies, from within, without the firing of a single shot.

    All it will take is just a few minutes of research to verify everything here.
    The origins of the pledge are anti-Christian and anti-American in EVERY way. To willingly recite a socialist pledge is, essentially, making a sacrifice to an idol. We need to wake up and repent of our idolatry, and learn the truth about the idols we worship.

    To see just a brief introduction to the truth about the pledge go here:
    http://christianworldview.net/...

    In the comments section you will find a Christian pledge written by Joseph Morecraft III.

    • Harold

      Excellent post!

      True Believers can be deceived in lots of worldly things.

      I have great love for the country--- as it was.

      When almost 50% see nothing wrong with voting for BO [BO STINKS !] then you know the country is GONE!

      God will !! turn His back on any nation who has turned its back on Him! This country will not be recognizable [already isn't to those of us over 50] in 5 years.

  • http://twitter.com/egbegb Ed Bradford

    No! (Duh!)

  • http://twitter.com/ABBAsFernando Ken Bowman

    For those of us knowledgeable of American History as it actually happened know the importance of Christianity in forming this nation. Our founding fathers never wanted to repeat the lessons learned by the European experience of State Religions controlled by the sovereign. During this era many sects of Christianity existed and our founding generation wanted individuals to be free to select based on free will choice. At no time did they ever claim to support one sect over any other one. Nor did they denigrate Christ.

    One founder did say that in order for any society to be FREE Christian Morals are required. Individuals must have Christian morals respecting the RIGHTS and Property of others. English laws and therefore American laws are indeed based on the Holy Bible and its lessons.

    Absolutely Christians must be loyal to the Flag of the United States of America as it represents our society as founded. In fact, it is the TITLE OF LIBERTY! It is the symbol of our Christian heritage, our faith, our families, and our FREEDOM!

  • Backgammon

    All this for a flag?

  • http://www.facebook.com/WRWhizard Robert Whisner

    R. C. I know exactly where you are coming from, and agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of the state of our nation. I won't insert a but here because every thing before 'but' is BS. When I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, I pledge to those ideals as stated, not as they are being lived out.

    Paul said "Oh wretched man that I am, I do the things I don't want to do and don't do the things I want to." It is written that "There is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus", but I also know that Jeremiah told the people Babylon was coming and they could fight but those who did would die and the rest were going into captivity.

  • http://www.facebook.com/hawk.spencer.9 Hawk Spencer

    True christians knows we must not salute the flag, it is against god rules!!!!!!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/wayne.graff.58 Wayne Graff

    There-in lies the problem, when children aren't taught what the pledge really means and aren't required to repeat it, it looses any true meaning. It becomes something that they say once in while with no feeling. Those children grow up and do not back the pledge or the constitution and they become forgotten pieces of history instead of being our solid backbone the we can rely upon. Then we get judges who dictate laws from the bench instead of enforcing the laws as they are written. We get murderer walking the streets because of technicalities and the government trying to stop law abiding citizens from having guns. Welcome to obama land.

    • robsconst

      Wayne, it's up to parents to teach their children about the Constitution and this country's history, not some silly loyalty oath written by a socialist over 100 years AFTER our country was created. I've been out of school for a long time, and I know when I was a kid the pledge was for me and a lot of my peers just part of the daily school ritual. Just a little meaningless mantra that we would rattle off every morning without ever really thinking about it.

  • danman1213

    Very thoughtful . I can't disagree . I recall being very patriotic in my youth. I severed in the Marines and now retired police officer. In my child hood I recall the summers when our church had vacation bible school. The day would start off with the pleag to the US flag then the Christian flag and then the holy bible. I was full of pride America could do no wrong. I an now close to 60 years of age . I now fear my Government and have lost the pride I had as as a young man. I find myself returning to the Christian up bringing I was raised with. I am loyal to my country but my country's government has turned on God and it citizens.

  • rmwayne

    I haven't pledged allegiance to the flag since the Kenyan communist dictator got into power. Those of us who live in the states of the old Confederacy need to secede from what was once a great country.

  • Sense1

    Either pledge allegiance to the Flag and God or pledge alligiance to Allah and Sharia, that is the only choice!

  • Deborah Phillips

    I am a Christian and love my country. However, I never pledge allegiance to the flag. The pledge is a pack of lies that I could never in good conscience swear allegiance to.

  • Harold

    I noticed a couple of, "render unto caesar" comments below. Here are the facts.

    "'Do you have any clue what Jesus said? !!!!

    Everything belongs to God. Every atom! Every Galaxy! Every LIFE!
    Nothing BELONGS to Caesar! Literally!

    That "coin" may have gone to Caesar's treasury. It may have eventually found its way to Caesars pocket [figuratively speaking 'cause' I don't think the togas had pockets]. But in Truth, it did NOT actually BELONG to Caesar. It BELONGED to God!

    The illiterates [libs] who foolishly say; "our body, our choice," are merely repeating a satanic "mantra!." Nothing, I am allowed to hold, from the dirt to the dollar, belongs to me, including my own body! Everything belongs to God!

    I sometimes wonder if Jesus didn't have a little tiny smile on his face, knowing exactly what he was doing and saying.'"

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Christopher-Laity/1730599721 Robert Christopher Laity

    The pledge involves allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the REPUBLIC for which its STANDS One nation under God..." . It is allegiance to what it means to Stand for high ideals. Those who do not follow the high ideals aught not say the Pledge and if they do say it are Hypocrites. As for myself, I pledge Allegiance to God and my Country,ideally,the freest Nation on Earth if we preserve it,invoke God's protection and strive to keep moral. What nation is divisable that is "Under God"?

    "We have a Republic if we can keep it"-Benjamin Franklin.

  • jerry1944

    Gee that sounds like the muslummms code .God family and country in that order But God gave us this country Its ours as long as we keep faith in God and that is going it looks like. Our country is leaveing God for the gays and the drugs. This is due to the country turning away from God. But as christian we still have to pledge t fight for the country and God even if we as loseing. Like the gop turning away from conservative and going mod like the dems As a conservative i can change to a 3rd party that is conservative. But we have only one bible to follow even if some now days like to interpate it diffrent

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jeffery-Scism/1132815760 Jeffery Scism

    I respectfully disagree. WE can pledge allegiance to the Flag and the republic as long as it is UNDER God. Those things that you believe are no longer true? WE can make them true, and pledging allegiance to a Republic that has those qualities is a step towards belief in those qualities, and a seed planted to make them grow healthy once again. Rather rthan NOT pledging allegiance ( a step toward elimination of the USA in any form) I suggest we all band together to make our pledge the truth. Its the ONLY answer in a land founded UNDER God's guidance and if we all adhere to the standards, then it WILL be so, because we will make it so.

  • Moe

    My allegiance in not to a man, but to a people who have fought a died to remain free, a people who continue today to better themselves and their lives to make life better for their children so they too can be free of Despotic and outragous governmental control in living their lives. I pledged my life to country, but my soul to God.

  • robsconst

    The people on here arguing that if you don't say a loyalty oath to their flag idol, then you should leave the country are just as bad as the liberals on the other side of the debate.
    "Freedom for everybody (who agrees with us)!"
    And, let's be honest with ourselves: The U.S. flag has become an idol to waaay too many people.

    1. We pledge our loyalty to it (the flag idol), and the government that it represents.

    2.When the flag idol becomes damaged we have a specific procedure for reverently disposing of the idol.

    3. We can't let the flag idol touch the ground, or otherwise be sullied.

    4. And, a lot of people support a Constitutional Amendment making it illegal for anybody to burn the flag idol as a form of political speech.

    • moretothestory123

      Amen. The idolatry is sickening.

  • moretothestory123

    So, if I were to go by the lunacy posted throughout this comment section, one must show respect for the "land of the free", and if you don't, you should be banished from the country. Do you people not see the irony in that, or do you simply take the talking points of the mentally challenged, such as Sean Hannity, and simply regurgitate them here?

    My loyalty is to God and my family, not some government made up of men, or their silly piece of fabric.

  • moretothestory123

    Kids and the pledge. This is so true.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2BfqDUPL1I

  • Sofjax303@aol.com

    amyone living in AMERICA as an AMERICAN should gladly pledge alleglance to it and stand up for it's right and make no mistakes about all though most of my family are demoncrats

    (I am not) but there no way in hell I would take up arms against my brothers nor them against me so when Mr Obama who is not a legal president starts a civil war it will not be

    like the first one were 7 hundred thousand AMERICAN lost thier lives over stupid politics in most parts brothers will stand side by side WE are AMERICANS we are the people

    and I proudly pledge my allegiance to my brothers and sisters and to this GREAT COUNTRY that was intended by our forefathers DEMONCRATS & REPUBLICANS have ruin

    this country and it is time we send them back to rethink about all they have done the worst part is they think we are stupid they change words to cover thier asses like oh I didn't lie

    I miss spoke or we wants to disarm AMERICA so we can be in total rule sorry to inform them not going to happen on this watch........Sofjax303@aol.com

  • lainky

    The United States of America is God's Country founded on the principles and the Word of God so Yes. David and others were instructed by God to pledge thier allegiance to Israel, to serve and protect Her.

  • http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelrodriquez Michael Rodriquez

    After reading every post I am very appreciative of the concern people have expressed for our country and its symbols of loyalty. That being said I want make it absolutely clear that my loyalty is to the U.S. Constitution which represents the rule of law, philosophy for governance, and means of dispensing justice. However my allegiance will be to my master, my GOD, my LORD and SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST. Nothing I advocate would ever deviate from the those commitments.

  • mattzweck

    i pledge to the american flag but i won't pledge to obumer. he's turn this country into socialist society.

  • http://www.facebook.com/howard.a.milor Howard A Milor Jr.

    This Nation under God is great only because of the people God gave us to make it great. Now we must defend what gifts he gave us. Impeach Obama

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ruth-Walker/528948232 Ruth Walker

    Our country got along pretty well without a pledge. It was written (with a god) by a Baptist minister right after the Civil War, thus the "indivisible" but it was intended to be used once (for school programs in recognition of the 400th anniversary of the landing of Columbus). I remember when Billy Graham talked Congress into adding "under God" but I say "under law" instead, as there is no god in the Constitution and the creator in the Declaration of Independence is "Nature and Nature's God" rather than the jealous one of the bible in whose name the European monarchs were anointed!

    • Harold

      NO!

      The Founding Fathers were EXTREME Bible readers. Several, including future Presidents and Chief Justices of the SC actually founded Bible Societies. You are stating the ideas of extreme liberalism.

      The only fault of the FF's was that they had the attitude that folks should be free to come to the Bible. The idea of "separation of church and state" came from the Christian Pulpit originally! IT MEANT---government shall keep out of the affairs of "church." NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND--as is stated today!

      The Founding Fathers are spinning in their graves over what we have ALLOWED to be done to the country they created. They never would have believed we would allow muslims, or "those who lie with a man as they would a woman" OR New World Order EuroSocialist to become POTUS!

      The day Romney sewed up the delegates he needed for nomination, I laughed! I knew then that God had turned His back on the country. Matter of fact, election night 2000, I looked at my wife and said [out loud] GWB will be [and I didn't like a lot he did!] the last Christian president. And, I haven't been wrong!

      • http://www.facebook.com/jdrew79 James Drew

        Wait, you are saying it was a "fault" that they believed people should be free to come to the Bible? Are you serious?

        • Harold

          Not really. I am saying that several [I believe 3] of the original colonies actually had requirements that you could not vote [therefore probably hold any kind of elected position] unless you were a Christian. If I remember correctly, Virginia, the largest, was one!

          Of course we know that simply "calling" yourself a Christian does not make you one, but that would have at least meant something.

          Had they had the foresight to make that a part of our original laws, we would have that part ["This ISN't a Christian nation"---WRONG!] of the libs argument WON because we could simply say look at history. Of course they would ignore that like they do the MANY statements of early [well actually through at least Kennedy surprisingly enough and then OF COURSE Reagan] presidents & the Supreme Court, to that effect!

          At the "founding" the colonies were at LEAST 90% Bible [the Geneva! NOT the KJV!!!] reading Christians who never in their life would have dreamed of muslims, communists, abortionist, "men laying with a man as with a woman," CREEPS not to speak of hindus, scientologists, mor[m]ons, etc!

        • http://www.facebook.com/jdrew79 James Drew

          They had the foresight not to declare a national religion because they knew it would be repugnant to the principles of freedom. While we may have a predominantly Christian society, our government was never created as a "Christian government".

          Why do so many Christians act as if God called for us to use government to force our faith on others? Also, what is this babbling about muslims, homosexuals, and other religions? Thomas Jefferson was well versed in Islam. Many of the founders were highly educated men that sought knowledge of other faiths, especially as many were deists.

          To mandate that Christianity is the national religion, which I assume you'd support, would be to mandate that America is not a free nation.

        • Harold

          " babbling about muslims, homosexuals, and other religions? "

          Watch out, your liberalism is showing. You just said a lot with that one reference.

          True Believers would never say that references to muslims [and yes I have a copy of the koran, I used it and 60 pages to convince a muslim that she was [she is now married to a Christian] in the wrong pew] or "those who lie with a man as they would a woman" OR abortionists, were "bablings." They are some of the things which can bring you misery when you stand B4 The Judge. They are also principle reasons for the downfall of the nation!

          American hasn't been a truly "free" nation for a long time, but that is beside the point. I would suggest you obtain study materials, referencing the notions of The Founding Fathers. There weren't nearly as many "deists" as liberals would like folk to be suckered into. In today's climate the predominant Founding Fathers would be called "religious nuts."

          And you are right, I just can hardly wait for the coming Kingdom.

        • http://www.facebook.com/jdrew79 James Drew

          Harold, if by "classical liberal" then yes. More accurately, I'm a libertarian/minarchist. I believe in individual liberty. Sadly, it is clear you do not.

          They way you were discussing those groups it was clear you were just babbling incoherently. You said: "At the "founding" the colonies were at LEAST 90% Bible [the Geneva! NOT the KJV!!!] reading Christians who never in their life would have dreamed of muslims, communists, abortionist, "men laying with a man as with a woman," CREEPS not to speak of hindus, scientologists, mor[m]ons, etc!". This is simply an ignorant statement that is just not factual. The founders were well aware of the religion of Islam. Homosexuality has been practiced for millenia. They were aware of the existince of hinduism. How can you say they could never dream of people they already knew existed? That's just ignorant.

          Also, the downfall of our nation is due to the erosion of individual liberty and an insane economic policy pursued over the last 100 years. If "immorality" was why we are collapsing, then we would have never existed, as our nation was founded on the backs of an obscenely immoral institution.

          America has NEVER been truly free. It is even worse now because people like you use government to impose your view of morality, which only further erodes our liberties. The laughable thing is that you probably believe policies like drug prohibition are moral policies.

          Oh, and get over yourself w/ your idiotic implication that I'm not a true believer in Christ. People like you are what drives so many people from God today. You do not know my heart. You do not know anything about my relationship with God.

        • Harold

          I was an extreme liberal for almost exactly the middle 1/3 of my 64+ years. I was also strongly anti-Christian and a functional atheist, believing the Bible was a fairy tale.

          I had been involved in abortion, was an extreme environmentalist, pro-gay or "if it feels good, do it" Pro NWO socialism. Now of course, I know, a lot of the stuff I believed back then was also very totalitarian.

          I began to change when I began to see that strangely enough a lot of the stuff I favored also destroys lives. I became politically and socially conservative

          I didn't become a True Believer until about 10 years after I became conservative.

          In my political conversion I saw that abortion, extreme environmentalism, pro-homosexuality, the laissez faire [Def, # 2. the practice or doctrine of noninterference in the affairs of others, especially with reference to individual conduct or freedom of action. ] social attitude destroys lives, which is of course exactly the opposite of what the "believers" think.

          Everything ! has to do with your relationship with God. EVERYTHING!

          That is the only thing that matters.

          How can someone say: "I don't personally believe in abortion, BUT it is their business...OR: "I wouldn't practice homosexuality, BUT it is their business,,,,,KNOWING THAT HE WILL ONE DAY STAND BEFORE THE JUDGE WHO WILL HOLD US ACCOUNTABLE FOR EVERY THOUGHT AND EVERY ACTION [or NON-action!] !

          God demanded; "destroy everything that breathes in those nations I am giving you" for a reason! He knows that the presence of evil, destroys lives.

          Abortion [sacrificing children for whatever reason] and homosexuality [temple prostitution] have indeed existed since pre-history. They are satanic practices.

          Greed [money for gain without limit] abortion [killing innocents] and homosexulity [ROMANS CHAPTER 1] and our turning our back on God are the reasons God is in the process of destroying the USA. I applaud Him for that!

          I hope you will not mind if I pray for you. God bless!

        • http://www.facebook.com/jdrew79 James Drew

          Harold,
          You've gone unhinged man. First off, I am pro-life. Not sure what you keep mentioning abortion for. I also believe homosexuality is a sin, as is lying and looking at a woman lustfully. God does not rank our sins. Sin is sin is sin. Just because it is a sin doesn't mean you have the right to empower a 3rd party to throw an individual in a metal cage for engaging in it.

          Also, a laissez faire attitude towards the private lives of others, w/ regards to government, not only doesn't destroy lives, but is the Christian attitude. Just as I do not have the moral authority to place a gun to your head and throw you in a cage if I see you doing something sinful, I also do not have the moral authority to empower government w/ a right I do not possess. I do not have the moral authority to empower a 3rd party to place a gun to your head and throw you in a metal cage for committing acts that do not harm others. You claim your position is moral, but you are simply a coward claiming legitimacy for your immoral position by hiding behind the skirt of government.

          If my neighbor is gay, I have no right to interfere with their lives. I, as a Christian, can witness to them and live my life in a way that acts as a beacon for God. I do not, however, have the moral authority to initiate unjustified force against a person. You say abortion and homosexuality are satanic practices. They are sinful acts. As I said earlier, sin is sin is sin. Only God has the authority to punish sin, not man. You know what else is sinful? Placing a gun to someone's head, that harmed no other individual, and throwing them in a metal cage. Just because it is a collective action, doesn't make it any less sinful. Man has the authority to punish actions that violate the rights of others. That is all. Homosexuality does not harm those not engaging in it. Drug use does not harm those not engaging in it. Prostitution does not harm those not engaging in it. Are they immoral and sinful acts? Yes, for the most part (I do not believe marijuana use to be sinful as it does not harm the body). Does God ever direct us to use force against others to keep them from sinning? NO.

          Greed, abortion, and homosexuality are not why our nation is on the decline. A repugnant attitude towards individual freedom and keyenesian economic policies based on theft and redistribution are why our nation will collapse. If immorality was the reason, America would have never existed. We've always been an immoral nation. We started in slavery. We moved to genocide. Now we launch unjust wars against nations resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands, then again, we've always done that. This fairy tale that America was once a bastion of morality is laughable and not supported by reason.

          Of course anyone is always welcome to pray for me. Don't do so because you believe me to not be a Christian or that you believe my positions to be immoral. That would be silly, as I've already accepted Christ and my positions are entirely consistent with Christian faith.

          BTW, you do realize that your positions now are very totalitarian, right? You traded liberal totalitarianism for socially conservative totalitarianism. You seem filled with hate and anger towards the sinful, which is ironic considering we are all sinners. Remember, Jesus didn't strike down the prostitute. He saved her from the "authorities" and their unjust punishment, and he told her to go and sin no more. There was no force used by Jesus. Jesus didn't throw her in a metal cage. He didn't seek to destroy her life and rip her from family. He treated her with love and compassion. Please stop using the name of Jesus to rationalize positions that are inconsistent with His teachings.

        • http://www.facebook.com/jdrew79 James Drew

          Let me ask you this. It is clear you believe government should prohibit actions based on whether they are a sin or not, correct? Or is it only certain sins that you think should be illegal? Should lying be illegal? Should homosexuality? Should lust? Should envy? Where do we stop?

          You claim a laissez-faire attitude towards others' private lives is destructive, so how involved do you want to get? Should we throw people in prison for not honoring the sabbath? What about those vile children that disobey their parents? I'm just curious as to how far you are willing to go w/ your idiocy.

          Government has no authority to prohibit acts deemed sinful. As Thomas Jefferson stated (btw, I notice you conveniently didn't comment on the founders' quotes regarding Christianity that I posted), "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are
          injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say
          there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks
          my leg."

          You want to use government to create a theocracy. You want to FORCE others to live a life in accordance to God's word. I mean, you even claim it was a fault of the founders that they believed man should be free to come to the Bible on their own. No wonder you were a cop.

        • Harold

          Wow, this is fun. I really have enjoyed your comments, some are well done.

          An older friend [in his 70's] likes to say that eventually there will only be 10 "laws" and it will be the death of you if you break 1. Meaning, of course that eventually we will have the "theocracy" you mention.

          "Cause and effect!"

          For the last 4 years of my 16 as a peace officer, I taught a rehabilitation program in a correctional setting, a "boot camp." I spent 8-16 hours a day 5 or more days a week with 18--20 something' year olds who had already spent years in jail. One of my main points was; "Do what works, does where you are look like you have been doing what works."

          A Christian knows that God's way works. Oh and yes, of course we are all sinners, I am lucky to make it a whole hour w/o doing something sinful. Of course, unless someone is saved they are still under the Law.

          We have already established that we both know this was never really "the land of the free" but I think we have differing perspectives.

          That said, I am a child of the 50's. Folks over the age of, lets say, 50-70 know the difference between today and "our time." It is a HUGE difference. HUGE!

          Cause and Effect! What is the difference [and of course there were things wrong back then because we are SINNERS] between today and 1955, or between today and 1948, etc.?

          God has turned His back on the USA. Why? Read Romans Chapter 1 for starters. The things most greatly changed have been 1. Allowing abortion. 2. Open allowable homosexuality. 3. Changing Drug Laws. 4. Extreme Environmentalism. [Romans 1] ! 1, 2 & 3 WERE against the LAW.

          The nation is being destroyed BY GOD! Because we have gone from being a Nation of Laws which were based upon Biblical perspective to a nation focused upo, "If it feels good, and as long as I am in my own bedroom, it should be allowed."

          Based upon your logic, what is the end of the "If it feels good do IT!" process. Ever hear of NAMBLA????

          Hell, by your "reasoning" why NOT ! ?

          I have personal knowledge of what abortion does! I have personal knowledge of what homosexuality does! I have personal knowledge of what child molestation does! I have personal knowledge of what that "little plant" does to human lives! Unfortunately, I understand some of those things in the same way John Newton understood slavery.

          I realize I can be a little vehement, I am sorry for some of that, but at the same time, I have a personal and intimate knowledge of lives destroyed because of relaxed "LAWS."

          I grew up hearing, your rights end where my nose begins. That is simplistic. There is a law of unintended consequences. God knows that! He knows that one tiny rivet blown can sink a ship. The USA will be destroyed because we loosened the "moral" [SIN] laws. And of course there is the greed, which God also hates, but that is another topic.

          Thank you for your comments, they were very good.

          [Oh, and I didn't comment on the other post because I have pages and pages of comments from the same folk [plus, other POTUS and SC Justices and decisions] contrary to your comments. You know, it is kind-of like Paine, I read that he was an atheist until I read something he wrote saying he was "believed in a creator." A deist cannot be an atheist. I think he just hated "organized" religion, which might not get much argument from me.]

        • http://www.facebook.com/jdrew79 James Drew

          Of course God’s way works. God never commanded us to force His way on others. Also, the difference between now and 1955 isn’t that God turned his back on us. You are making a claim that can’t be proven. You say it’s because of abortion, homosexuality, and changing drug laws. Guess what? Those things always existed. Also, drug prohibition started in the early 1900’s, and it has been a complete and utter failure ever since. Drug laws have progressively become harsher, not more relaxed. It isn’t until recently that there’s been a legitimate push to repeal these repugnant laws. The founders did not create a government w/ the authority to ban any drug, and every drug known to man was legal in the US until the early 1900’s. If God didn’t turn his back on America when we were enslaving an entire race, exterminating another, or just flat-out oppressing the people, then you honestly want to blame the gays for it?

          Are you honestly saying that homosexuality should be illegal? What would your punishment be? You do realize that while homosexual acts are a choice, who one is physically attracted to is not. Just as you didn’t choose to be attracted to the opposite sex, they do not choose to be attracted to the same sex. The sin comes from the lust and actual acting on it. So, what actions should be allowed in the bedroom? Should pre-marital sex be illegal? What about oral sex between husband and wife? That’s not a natural form of sex. You are nothing more than a totalitarian nutjob.

          What is the end of the “if it feels good, do it” mentality? Well, the end is reached when it violates the rights of another human being. Two men having consensual sex does not violate any other person’s rights. NAMBLA is an organization that preys on those that are unable to consent. You keep implying that I’m advocating anarchy. You have no interest in a realdiscussion. I’ve made it clear that the scope of government is limited to only those acts that injure others. Molesting children injures the child. Rape injures the child. Consensual homosexual sex harms nobody but those involved.

          So, what does marijuana do? Please enlighten us. Please provide the list of names of those killed because of their consumption of marijuana. Please provide all these horrific consequences of marijuana use. You keep saying you have personal knowledge. Provide it or shut up. Just because you were a thug cop for 16 years doesn’t mean you are educated on these matters. Please provide a list of all these people destroyed by increased freedom. I have personal experience of the greatness of this plant that God gave to us. Not this made-up “knowledge” you claim to have, but real experience. I would be dead right now if it weren't for this plant.

          The US will be destroyed because we have abandoned any semblance of individual freedom and we have pursued a suicidal economic policy. We’ve never been a moral nation. We’ve never had a Christian government, which is exactly what the founders envisioned.

          You didn’t comment on my other post because it refutes your ignorant claims. Dear Lord, let me guess. You are a fundamental Baptist. Who knows? Perhaps you just pine for the days where America was so moral that you could lynch a gay or a black and get away with it.

        • http://www.facebook.com/jdrew79 James Drew

          It is clear that you either do not understand what liberty and freedom are, or you simply view liberty and freedom w/ contempt.

          The worst thing is that you try to use Jesus as rationalization for hating freedom.

        • http://www.facebook.com/jdrew79 James Drew

          To say a nation founded in the enslavement of another race of man was founded as a "Christian" nation is insulting to the Christian faith.

        • Harold

          "a nation founded in the enslavement of another race of man"

          You are being funny right?

          The nation wasn't FOUNDED in the enslavement of another race.

          First of all, my ancestors were killed for sport, by whites. My children have been taught to be proud of their racial heritage. All races have made slaves of every other race. That has nothing to do with the "founding" of this nation. We got rid of slavery of the blacks.

          Once again, reading dozens of statements by the greatest of the founding fathers [and I include the line from the first settlers through those alive into the 1800's] leaves absolutely no doubt how they felt about Christianity. Libs like to call "deists" men who were unqualified in their respect for The Bible and the doctrines of Christ. At the time when the education of everyone from children to the early colleges focused on the Bible there was little acceptance of anything else. We have lost that!

        • http://www.facebook.com/jdrew79 James Drew

          Yes, our nation was most certainly founded on the backs of slaves. We got rid of slavery? Yeah, after nearly 100 years and a civil war that killed 600,000+ people. The fact that other societies have engaged in slavery is irrelevant.

          While we may have had a predominantly Christian society, our government was created as a secular one, and for good reason.

        • http://www.facebook.com/jdrew79 James Drew

          Just a few quotes:
          Thomas Jefferson:

          "I have examined all the known superstitions of the world and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth."

          "The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for
          enslaving mankind and adulturated by artificial constructions into a
          contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy in fact,
          constitute the real Anti-Christ."

          "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely
          between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church and State."

          John Adams:
          "Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrinesand Oaths, and whole cartloads of other trumpery that we find religionencumbered with in these days?"

          "The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on theChristian religion."

          Thomas Paine:
          "Among the most detesable villains in history, you could not find one worse than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to 'God' to butcher the boys, to massacre the mothers, and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not dare so dishonor my Creator's name by (attaching) it to this filthy book (the Bible)."

          James Madison:
          "What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyrrany. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government,
          instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy."

          "Religion and government willboth exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."

  • A_Nobody

    Yes.

  • http://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelrodriquez Michael Rodriquez

    Before there was a loyalty Pledge of Allegiance my family lived here and many of us have served this country in military. I personally went to a military academy. My uncles served in the Navy during the Korea War. My nephews are U.S. Marines. But i don't think any of them would tell any of you if you don't agree you're not worthy.to to be a U.S. citizen. In fact, had the absolutist pollitically prevailed we would still be colony of England. Just last night the movie "THE ROBE " was on TCM it makes the point much better I. LOVE GOD, WORSHIP the and PLEDGE your ALLEGIANCE to HIM.
    PLEDGE YOUR LOYALTY to our country. That is the lesson of of what the difference between is between the "PLEDGE" and the "LOYALTY".

  • http://www.facebook.com/david.hodges.5070 David Hodges

    I do not stand for the singing of the national anthem because no one will tell me which deity Old Glory is of. I refuse to worship just any deity. The word "desecration" is used to describe the destruction of Old Glory.

    Yahweh did indeed tell the children of Israel to establish flags—one for each tribe. Pledging allegiance to these flags was not mentioned. Like Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, I will continue to refuse to pay homage to a national symbol when the music begins. The only Flag I will honor is a Flag that bears the inscription of Exodus 17: 15: “The Lord is my Banner.” My questions concerning Old Glory remain unanswered. If anyone wishes to answer them publicly, please feel free to do so. Here they are:

    1) Do you acknowledge, according to the definition of the word, that "desecration" can occur only to something that is sacred?
    2) Do you acknowledge, according to the definition of the word, that "sacred" means "of a deity"?
    3) Do you believe that, since the word “desecration” is used to describe the destruction of Old Glory, that Old Glory is indeed sacred, and if so, of which deity is Old Glory?
    4) Does America have a national (G,g)od?
    5) Do you believe that there exist "gods...which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell," according to Deuteronomy 4: 28?
    6) Do you acknowledge that the word "worship" is accurately described as "acts, expressions and/or a state of religious devotion typically directed to one or more deities?
    7) Can you show me, according to the definitions of "desecration," "sacred," and "worship," where Old Glory is not an object of worship?
    8) When you see the presentation of colors--Old Glory alongside the military flags--do you ever think of the "god of forces" of Daniel 11: 38?
    9) What do you think Jesus thought about Peter's pledge of allegiance in Matthew 26: 33: "Though all [men] shall be offended because of thee, [yet] will I never be offended."?
    10) What are you going to say if the first question God asks you on Judgment Day is: Did you ever disobey my First Commandment?
    11) And last, but not least, what do you think of Psalms 33: 12, “Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord”?:

  • http://www.facebook.com/LARRY14411 Larry Richardson

    just proves that you do not know sicum, god tolt the Israelites to pray for the city so they would have peace! We are to pray for our so called leaders so that they will let us live in peace do you think with all of their illegal deeds want us to live in peace? think again. And honor to whom honour is due you and paul are totally wrong, Scripture says "all honor and glory and righteousness to God who is and was and always will be". and since you can not pledge allegiance to it you should leave ,otherwise you should God said to those who believe "fast and pray and seek My face and I will hear from heaven and heal your land" we all need to listen to God probably me more than any one,but keep on trying Just because you pledge your allegience to the Flag of the united States of America dosent mean that you worship it it isnt the people it is the flag have you ever read what our Flag stands for? jsut because evil men seem to have the upper hand ?Where is your faith? Please read the four Gopels where you will get more truth about Christianity than anywhere else.If you will use the Holy Spirit as your teacher(ask Him)you will learn more than you have ever known, because God will teach you you will start to see through a glass clearly! Love In Jesus Christ RevLarry

    • http://www.facebook.com/jdrew79 James Drew

      Larry,
      God called for us to pray for others. I see nothing indicating that God wanted us to pledge our loyalty to the state. Faith and allegiance to a man-made nation state have nothing to do w/ each other.

  • http://www.facebook.com/LARRY14411 Larry Richardson

    screeminmeeme-- Amen brother , Jesus said "go and buy a sword for now I send you as sheep amoung wolves " and a sword isnt to pick your teeth with, its to make tooth picks:-)

  • http://www.facebook.com/LARRY14411 Larry Richardson

    Remember "love the Lord with all of yur strength, and love your neighbor as your self" that dosent mean that I have to agree or even like him, that is Agape Love.

  • Korean_Vet

    My answer to this statement--is the apparent one in effect at the time of our American
    American Revolution--! The Flag--which was carried--before the Constitution was written--
    was "Representing the People"--who were "Fighting for the Freedoms they sought" & did
    Not "Represent any Government at that time"-! It was the "People's Flag" & Not any thing
    else-! It "Represented 'those--'that were dying' & 'those who were living' for Feedom's
    Sake & Cause'--!" After the Consitution was written & "Adopted"--The New Republic
    "Adopted the 'already existing People's Flag'--as their National Flag-!" The People then--
    "Pledged Their Allegiance to Each Other & To The Flag"--it "Represented as Free People"-!

    • http://www.facebook.com/jdrew79 James Drew

      The country existed for over 100 years without this silly loyalty oath.

  • gavinwca

    Pledge allegiance to God, Family and Country , in that order of standing , the flag reposents the freedom fighters who died so we could honor God, Family and country. Absulety pledge your allegiance to the flag it should be an honor to do so"

  • gavinwca

    The signers of the decoration of indeprendance and the Constitution of the United states pleded their Lives, Fortune and Honor, to the United States of America, if it was good enough for them it's good enough for me.

    • http://www.facebook.com/jdrew79 James Drew

      Wrong. They pledged their "lives, fortunes, and sacred honor" to each other, not the state.

  • gavinwca

    The constitution gave the ultimate say whether this country stayed a republic or not, to the people, what this country has become is the responsibility of the people not Goverment. We honor what this country was formed to be, the bad changes by goverment are the responsibility of the people to fix the founding fathers stated a little revolution every once and a while is good for a country , pledge allegence to what we are susposed to be and are going to return to, even if it takes a little bit of revolution to get there.

    • http://www.facebook.com/jdrew79 James Drew

      Pledge allegiance to what America was supposed to be? If your wife screws around on you, are you going to stay with her because of what your marriage was supposed to be?

      America has never been a nation of liberty. We started with a policy of slavery, then virtual extermination of indians, then internment of American citizens of Japanese descent, then horrible post-slavery oppression of blacks, and now the incarceration of a higher rate of population than any other nation in the world.

  • ANNIE

    Seriously ? OF COURSE WE SHOULD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HELLO.

  • brianjconway

    I think in the New Testament it is said "Render unto Caeser what is Caesers and unto God what is Gods

    • http://www.facebook.com/jdrew79 James Drew

      And my allegiance does not belong to Caesar, therefore, no reason to give it to him.

  • Russell Stone

    Just look at the history of the pledge of allegiance. Written by a National Socialist (Nazi) in the 1930's. The original salute was a Nazi-style salute. The fact is that pledging to a flag is not something that free people do. I would not make any pledge to a flag especially the American flag given all of the evils that America now stands for. As long as those officials ignore the oaths they take to the constitution then there is no "republic" for which it stands.

    The founding fathers pledged to each other not to a flag. I doubt they would have pledged to any flag. Our Declaration of Independence declares that governments are instituted among men to protect individual rights. And that governments derive their just powers to govern by the consent of the governed. How many Americans now consent to how they are governed? I would say that many do not. The American government now uses coercion rather than consent to gain compliance. It is the prison capital of the world and many of those in prison have committed no real crimes. Many of those in prison are there as punishment for questioning and challenging tyranny, If that's freedom then you can have it.

    Those who are awake and who understand the problems with pledging to a flag and who understand the corruption and disgrace that exists in America today are the real patriots in America. Many of the soldiers who carry out the agenda of the corporate demons and bankers who have stolen the birthright of Americans are not real patriots. They are paid to do what they do and do it without regard to any oath they take. If they were defending America from invaders then maybe they would be. But they are following orders of those who do not honor the constitution. The constitution is the very foundation of the republic. Without it America is nothing great. Just another lawless nation among the nations.

  • Zareth

    No, we should not. Our allegiance cannot be divided it has to be to God.

  • http://twitter.com/Frances_D Frances Drake

    As never before in the history of this nation, Christians are called upon to be Old Testament prophets. Our responsibility is to proclaim God's TRUTH, no matter what the consequences. We are to do this until Jesus' return. Everything else is His responsibility. We no longer have the luxury of life as we once knew it. Time is short. Pray for repentance and revival. Without genuine turning back to God America is lost.

  • http://twitter.com/USnavy1967 Bobby and Peg 1976

    I sit in contemplation of his words. Our nation however was based of faith of God, the freedom to practice that faith with out punishment, to believe that as a God loving man I will pledge by allegiance to God and country. Since 2008 the country I love has been torn apart more then the Civil War could have done. I believe the country that we all knew and loved has been pushed aside, possible even murdered. But with God, his son Jesus Christ on our side our nation will flurish again, and the pledge will once again mean something to all of us. If not then I will die knowing that I have held up my faith, my love and my devotion to God and Country.

    • http://www.facebook.com/jdrew79 James Drew

      You know there is nothing Biblical about the silly loyalty oath, right? If you want to pledge your allegiance to the state, then by all means go ahead. Don't hide behind the Bible as if pledging our allegiance to the state is some sort of Christian act.

      The pledge was authored by an avowed socialist over 100 years after the Constitution was ratified. The pledge will not "mean something to all of us" because the pledge is nothing but lies and repulsive to freedom-loving individuals.