Christ Banned from Another U.S. City

Over the past 50 years, Jesus Christ, God and the Bible have been banned from public schools, government buildings and even street corners.  Now any mention of Christ in many town council meetings has become a taboo.

The latest victim to be raped of their First Amendment rights of free speech and religion is Longview, Washington.  Located along the Washington-Oregon border, Longview is only about 30 miles west of Mount St. Helens, site of the spectacular volcanic eruption in 1980.

Now, Longview may be on the verge of its own eruption.  Mayor Don Jensen told the Kelso-Longview Ministerial Association that they are no longer allowed to mention Jesus Christ in their prayers at council meetings.  They can mention God in a nonsectarian way, but not Jesus.

And the reason behind the order?

According to Jensen, it’s because they fear a possible lawsuit down the road if someone invokes the name of Jesus:

“It’s not my choice to stop this, but I don’t know how we can put our citizens at jeopardy and cost our city and our citizens a lot of money.”

In other words, the atheist minority has succeeded in bullying yet another community to turn away from the Creator of the universe for fear of offending someone and being faced with a lawsuit.  In fact, it seems that the Mayor’s decision was based largely on the complaints of one local atheist, Dan Smith who told the local news:

"I do not want public prayer in my public building.  If I could have it my way there would be no religious – start the meetings with the banging of the gavel, and let's go."

Longview City Council meetings have been opened with a Christian prayer since the 1950s, but that seems to have come to a screeching halt.  Mark Schmutz, Pastor of North Lake Baptist Church told the local news:

"They've asked us for years to schedule those invocations and we are those who believe Jesus is the Son of God."

"We could say God and we could end with Amen but we shouldn't be specific about which religion or which God we're calling upon."

"People talk about lawsuits on a regular basis and nobody wants litigation, so you get to this place where it's just easier not than to fight this fight."

"We are ministers of the Gospel of Jesus and to not speak the name goes past our own convictions.”

What really gets my ire up on cases like this is that a thousand Christians could complain to the mayor and city council about not being able to say the name of Jesus Christ and it won’t make a difference.  The complaint of one sad atheist is allowed to rule the day and infringe on the First Amendment rights of freedom of speech and religion of many of the town’s residents.

In today’s America, the complaining of the one tramples on the constitutional rights of the many.  And you want to know why that it?  Because most of America’s Christians have sat on their lazy butts and refused to do anything to stop it.  In reality, the Silent Majority is just as guilty as the few crotchety atheists for driving Jesus Christ out of our public life.  If you are one of those lazy Christians, take a good look in the mirror before you start to complain about what is happening to Christianity in America today.  Your silence has spoken as loudly as the shouts of the few that have caused you to lose what you once had.



  • Doodlebug

    We keep kicking God out of our public schools and our government and what do we expect in return? We've taken any mention of the Bible out of schools, yet we give Bibles to those in prision. Perhaps if we would give out Bibles in schools, allow prayers in school, and allow Christian organizations meet in schools, we wouldn't have so many people in prision. For a country which was founded on Christian principles, it makes me want to puke at how much we have allowed it to be down graded. But, it is the squeaky wheel that gets the oil, the ACLU, the atheists, the organization in WI. It is time that Christians get up and shout the love of God from the roof tops. I firmly believe in the second coming of Christ and pray that happens soon, get rid of all the evil in our world. Come Lord Jesus Come.

    • patriotusa2


    • oleinwi

      There is a solution, let us all take our tax dollars through voucher programs and put our kids in Parochial schools. Why do you think the left fights vouchers SO hard, they know it would generally empty the public school systems and unhinge the power of the teachers unions.

      • Doodlebug

        I think we should all just not pay our taxes and let them shut down the government and let us start over. We've all learned a lot since the election of obummer, haven't we?

        • Rich Green

          I have a hard time understanding why a town or city would outlaw religion and turn their backs on The Good Lord Above. And most of this anti-Christ feeling and actions are O'Dips fault. I pray to the Good Lord Above that he will provide protection against this un American group of idiots in DC. We need to clean house and get rid of every Anti=American up there. Please Lord help us and provide our light on correcting all the wrongs created by this Administration and anti-Christ yo-yo's. I ask in your name.

        • Amber Klienhans

          Yeah, your right!!! But I don't think this can be fixed now......Jesus is on his way soon......This is all the Anti-christs plan.....and the House of Cards is about to fall.........and I wish I could scream this from the roof top.....WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!

        • nickRay

          Amber? America is awake. You woke it up with all your screaming and it's called the cops. The sound you hear in the distance is America telling you its 3 in the morning and to shut the F-word up. If I were you I'd hide the gin bottles and flush the meth before Johnny Law arrives, OK?

        • Phillip_in_TX


        • Jennifer Sweet

          AMen sista!!! Jesus is on His way.This is all antichrist plan!!! But those of us who love the Lord are in the know of how all this ends. And it ain't good for the atheist!!!!

        • John

          People like you scare me. If you hear voices, that's not a god, that's a mental problem.

        • thenotimer

          2,000 years of "Any day now." I wish I knew why you folks are so eager for the world to end.

        • Agarnier

          Because the fools think they are all going to heaven. Their self-centred god could not allow humanity true immortality or they would be somehow equal. The never ending lie continues. They will be looking forward to the end of the world for the next 2000 years. FOOLS! Lets hope Religion cannot survive human intelligence.

        • Ariviste

          I cannot imagine the anger and meanness in you. God bless you. And I mean that.

        • Agarnier

          Save your blessings for those religious leaders who sodomise & abuse your children then deny it, including the retired pope. If that does not elicit anger and meanness in you, you are inhuman or already dead.

        • Ariviste

          I call on every Christian who is reading this to say a prayer for Agarnier. He obviously has something missing in his life that makes him want to attack the faith of others. I hope that he will gain peace in his life. I hope he will come to realize that those who abuse children are in the small minority, and the majority of Christian do not espouse those evil people.

        • Agarnier

          Oh Jesus here we go, conjuring up the spirits of ignorance to solve even your most menial problems. What I lack in my life is the absence of ignorant religions, over 200, telling me how to live my life. I place all my faith in proven science, our only true saviour. The pedophiles and child abusers are many in your churches and the majority support & espouse the evil by allowing the church to harbour those criminals within their sanctimonious ranks. Shame on you all. You are all going to hell. I'd pray for you if I believed in that crap but, I don't.

        • Ariviste

          If you don't believe in God then you should not believe in Hell. Sorry you are so bitter. Maybe someday you will see the Light. Even many scientists believe in God. Haven't you heard?

        • Agarnier

          I don't believe in heaven or hell. Obviously you do or you would not feel offended that I said you were all going to hell. You should work harder at being a better person. I have already seen the light and it is shining brightly in the vulgar, obscene lies of the Christian underbelly. Bottom dwellers who feed off the suffering of humanity while Vatican Inc. rakes in the illicit profits. Sick bastards one and all.

        • Ariviste

          I'm not offended. I know where I am going. Not so sure about you, however. How do you know what kind of person I am? Democrats are the ones that feed off the suffering of humanity. They enslave them with welfare, and all the freebies so that they will vote dozens of times each for them. The only light you've seen is between Obama's ears. It's coming in from the other side.

        • Agarnier

          I don't know what you do for a living but. I would wager it has nothing to do with providing service for those in need. There are millions more Americans out there who are worse off than people on welfare and survive by their instincts. That's why the crime rates are still unacceptable. Those on welfare need it because they are either incapable or unwilling to rely on criminal instincts. All they need now is the sanctimonious, narcissistic, self-righteous, judgement of a holier than thou, religious elitists. Does your greed and religious stupidity prevent you from helping those in need? Is that the way of brotherly love? Hypocrites!

        • Ariviste

          There are those in need and those who from generation to generation choose not to work. They make continuous choices not to be educated, get a job, or provide for their families. These people do not deserve our help. Those who find themselves in need through no fault of their own deserve our help and I do all I can for them. We have to make a difference. Many on welfare are using their criminal instincts to enhance their welfare checks when they could be going to school and getting a job. I choose not to help them. We have free public education in this country, and people need to be educated to use it to enable themselves to become self sufficient. Many in this country are poor through their own bad choices. Some, like those you mention who provide through their own instincts are the ones we need to help. Not those who do not work, have never worked, have no intentions of working ever, sit around and have babies they can't support and could get a job if they choose. They are able bodied and yet they prefer to play around instead of making their own way.

        • Agarnier

          You have to let that religious ringing in your head subside and open your mind. There is no one on welfare who doesn't need it to survive. Most would rather steal than accept welfare. Most Americans are too proud to accept charity. The wealth of America does not belong to the greedy few like you. It belongs to the sane majority who are willing to comfort the sick, feed the hungry and house the homeless. Americans who hold the heart of sharing their hardships and success with all their brothers. Remember, success depends entirely on those who support your plans. Don't make unnecessary enemies of those you do not understand. You walk around with your head in the clouds and have lost touch with your humanity. If all Repuglicans are as greedy as you, and they are, they are destine for political oblivion.

        • Agarnier

          Take your medicine twice daily, settle down and pray, "Christ is Santa, Christ is a fairy tale."

        • nickRay

          I just don't know how to break it to Rich that I saw an "Obama Biden 2012 bumper sticker on Jesus's Prius on Tuesday. It'll shatter him I know.....

        • Deep Diver

          If you want America to become a theocracy, you are anti-American. Go read the US Constitution. If you hold it in such utter contempt, perhaps you should move to Saudi Arabia.

        • DCW16

          Why not QUOTE the part of the Constitution that says a person can not say a prayer in a public place? Or any place? Bet you can't . . . cause you have just been "Parroting" your nutty lieberal friends.

        • Ariviste

          Since 1620 there have been Christians in America and it has never become a theocracy. What makes you think that's going to happen now? Maybe a good shot of the morals supported by Christians would do everyone good. After look at the moral decay in our country right now. I don't intend to preach to anyone, but I can pray for my country and its people anytime I get ready.

        • thenotimer

          Your church already pays no taxes. What kind of car does your minister drive?

        • Deep Diver

          Isn't that precisely what they're doing in Somalia? Perhaps you should move there, it sounds like you would fit right in.

      • Lorna Doone

        I am in favor of the Conservatives coming up with a solution to public progressive schools.
        Maybe start up a different school system alternative that could be offered to Conservative Christians.

        • Smackaliberal

          No, the only "solution" is to cleanse this nation of all this filthy, evil pigs once and for all

        • nickRay

          Careful Lorna. He seems to be proposing a murder-suicide pact.

        • FlickDude

          I remember a fella with a funny mustache that felt the same, exact way.

          ....the heck was his name again? Charlie Chaplin, maybe?'ll come to me.

        • rich_bown

          Yeah and he was a Catholic!

        • DCW16

          No rich . . . he was deeply involved in the "Occult" . . . another "Low Information Voter" . . . I suspect ! ! ! Product of the Public School System eh ! ! !

        • rich_bown

          "Acting According to God's Will ... from an overflowing heart for granting me the good fortune of being permitted to live at this time" mein kampf - Adolf Hitler

        • DCW16

          And you assume he is talking abaot the G*d of Abraham? Not Thor . . .

          The reference to Christ notwithstanding, he was not personally a Christian, regarding the Catholicism he was baptized into as an irrational superstition. In fact he admired Islam more than Christianity, and he and his policies were highly respected by many of the Muslims of his day. He and his associates had a special distaste for the Catholic Church and, given a choice, preferred modern liberalized Protestantism, taking the view that the best form of Christianity would be one that forsook the traditional other-worldly focus on personal salvation and accommodated itself to the requirements of a program for social justice to be implemented by the state. They also considered the possibility that Christianity might eventually have to be abandoned altogether in favor of a return to paganism, a worldview many of them saw as more humane and truer to the heritage of their people. For he and his associates believed strongly that a people's ethnic and racial heritage was what mattered most. Some endorsed a kind of cultural relativism according to which what is true or false and right or wrong in some sense depends on one's ethnic worldview, and especially on what best promotes the well-being of one's ethnic group
          There is surely no doubt that the man Feser describes sounds very much like a mainstream Leftist by current standards. But who is the man concerned? It is a historically accurate description of Adolf Hitler. Hitler was not only a socialist in his own day but he would even be a mainstream socialist in MOST ways today. Feser does not mention Hitler's antisemitism above, of course, but that too seems once again to have become mainstream among the Western-world Left in the early years of the 21st century. See here for more on that.

          But there is no claim that Hitler was WHOLLY like modern democratic Leftists. In ways other than those so far mentioned, Hitler was, as has already been detailed to some extent, more like his Communist predecessors. Ludwig von Mises speaks of those similarities. Writing in 1944 he said:

          "The Nazis have not only imitated the Bolshevist tactics of seizing power. They have copied much more. They have imported from Russia the one-party system and the privileged role of this party and its members in public life; the paramount position of the secret police; the organization of affiliated parties abroad which are employed in fighting their domestic governments and in sabotage and espionage, assisted by public funds and the protection of the diplomatic and consular service; the administrative execution and imprisonment of political adversaries; concentration camps; the punishment inflicted on the families of exiles; the methods of propaganda. They have borrowed from the Marxians even such absurdities as the mode of address, party comrade (Parteigenosse), derived from the Marxian comrade (Genosse), and the use of a military terminology for all items of civil and economic life. The question is not in which respects both systems are alike but in which they differ..."

          (For those who are unaware of it, Von Mises was an Austrian Jewish intellectual and a remarkably prescient economist. He got out of Vienna just hours ahead of the Gestapo. He did therefore have both every reason and every opportunity to be a close observer of Nazism. So let us also read a bit of what he said about the Nazi economy:)

          The Nazis did not, as their foreign admirers contend, enforce price control within a market economy. With them price control was only one device within the frame of an all-around system of central planning. In the Nazi economy there was no question of private initiative and free enterprise. All production activities were directed by the Reichswirtschaftsministerium. No enterprise was free to deviate in the conduct of its operations from the orders issued by the government. Price control was only a device in the complex of innumerable decrees and orders regulating the minutest details of every business activity and precisely fixing every individual's tasks on the one hand and his income and standard of living on the other.

          What made it difficult for many people to grasp the very nature of the Nazi economic system was the fact that the Nazis did not expropriate the entrepreneurs and capitalists openly and that they did not adopt the principle of income equality which the Bolshevists espoused in the first years of Soviet rule and discarded only later. Yet the Nazis removed the bourgeois completely from control. Those entrepreneurs who were neither Jewish nor suspect of liberal and pacifist leanings retained their positions in the economic structure. But they were virtually merely salaried civil servants bound to comply unconditionally with the orders of their superiors, the bureaucrats of the Reich and the Nazi party.
          (Read the whole article here . . . ) very informative and well researched.

          "If you wish the sympathy of the broad masses, you must tell them the crudest and most stupid things." - Adolf Hitler

          "The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly . . . it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over." - Joseph Goebbels, Nazi Minister of Propaganda

          "A good catch phrase could stop thinking for 50 years." - Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes

          "Yes we can!" - barack hussein sotero/obama

          "It also gives us a very special, secret pleasure to see how unaware the people
          around us are of what is really happening to them.” - Adolf Hitler

        • DCW16

          Speaking of Uncle Adolph . . . his birth, upbringing and life are amazingly similar to the "Chosen One" in the WH today . . .

        • FlickDude

          Anything can fit, when you use a shoehorn.

        • DCW16

          Shoehorn this Flick . . . .

          The the truth is the worse enemy to Liberals as yourself. The following will help educate you a bit if you are willing to read to the end. Do not take my word for anything. Seek the truth instead of reading what makes you feel good

          Who am I?

          I was born in one country, raised in another.

          My father was born in another country.

          I was not his only child. He fathered several children with numerous women.

          I became very close to my mother, as my father showed no interest in me.

          My mother died at an early age from cancer.

          Although my father deserted me and my mother raised me, I later wrote a book idolizing my father, not my mother.

          Later in life, questions arose over my real name.

          My birth records were sketchy. No one was able to produce a legitimate, reliable birth certificate.

          I grew up practicing one faith but converted to Christianity, as it was widely accepted in my new country, but I practiced non-traditional beliefs and didn't follow Christianity, except in the public eye under scrutiny.

          I worked and lived among lower-class people as a young adult, disguising myself as someone who really cared about them.

          That was before I decided it was time to get serious about my life and embarked on a new career.

          I wrote a book about my struggles growing up. It was clear to those who read my memoirs that I had difficulties accepting that my father abandoned me as a child.

          I became active in local politics in my 30's; then, with help behind the scenes, I literally burst onto the scene as a candidate for national office in my 40s.

          They said I had a golden tongue and could talk anyone into anything.

          I had a virtually non-existent resume, little work history, and no experience in leading a single organization.

          Yet I was a powerful speaker and citizens were drawn to me, as though I were a magnet and they were small roofing tacks.

          I drew incredibly large crowds during my public appearances. This bolstered my ego.

          At first, my political campaign focused on my country's foreign policy... I was very critical of my country in the last war, and seized every opportunity to bash my country.

          But what launched my rise to national prominence were my views on the country's economy.

          I pretended to have a really good plan on how we could do better, and every poor person would be fed and housed for free.

          I knew which group was responsible for getting us into this mess.

          It was the free market, banks and corporations.

          I decided to start making citizens hate them and, if they became envious of others who did well, the plan was clinched tight.

          I called mine "A People's Campaign".

          That sounded good to all people.

          I was the surprise candidate because I emerged from outside the traditional path of politics and was able to gain widespread popular support.

          I knew that, if I merely offered the people 'hope', together we could change our country and the world.

          So, I started to make my speeches sound like they were on behalf of the downtrodden, poor, ignorant to include "persecuted minorities".

          My true views were not widely known, and I kept them unknown, until after I became my nation's leader.

          I had to carefully guard reality, as anybody could have easily found out what I really believed, if they had simply read my writings and examined those people associated with. I'm glad they didn't.

          Then I became the most powerful man in the world.

          And then world learned the truth.

          Who am I?


          If you were thinking of SOMEONE ELSE,

          You should be scared, very scared!

        • FlickDude

          You lost me at "Liberals such a yourself." I'm afraid you've assumed I'm one of those folks incorrectly too. They're, frankly, just as crazy as you lot.

          To be nice, I read on, and applaud. You actually used one of those super fancy shoehorns with the long handle so you don't have to bend over. Fine job.

        • DCW16

          If it Walks like a Duck, Quacks like a Duck . . . it must be a lieberal eh Flick ! ! !

          Interesting read . . . yes ! Parallels are undeniable . . . does History repeat ?

          Here's another . . .

        • John

          Sounds like what Jesus would say.

        • nickRay

          @Lorna That would sure make the public school kids happy. In fact, couldn't the Christian right all move to some other planet? One where vegetarian dinosauers and humans frolic together while a life sized plastic Jesus statue flashes on and off and plays hymns through a tinny plastic speaker?

        • Ultracon

          Why don't you go back to your liberal atheistic websites and stop the blasphemy, it is pretty sick. For your sake I hope you see the light and repent before it is too late for you.

        • nickRay

          Better to stay here and make fun of you bible-thumping hypocrites and reactionaries.

        • blebs

          What's up Beelzabub? Boring in hell today?

        • Phillip_in_TX

          I always wondered what "it's not my fault Obama" does when he's on the computer. He uses the moniker nickRay.

        • nickRay

          That's ridiculous Phillip. shows you really are from Texas. EVERYBODY knows Barry uses the screen name dronealone.

        • Agarnier

          He spends most of his electronic socializing and business time over his Blackberry. I am sure his plate is more than full without having to deal with pesky nay-sayers like you. You should be pondering more pressing questions like, "Do God and Santa really exist?"

        • nickRay

          Hell? Godfather Politics is it's foulest pit - and Tea Partiers the souls God hates most. I like it here.

        • Ariviste

          If you don't believe in God why do you say He hates Tea Partiers? You contradict yourself.

        • nickRay

          when did I say I didn't believe in God? I certainly don't believe in the monstrous God the vast majority of "good Christians" on this blog worship. But that doesn't make me an atheist. Try to imagine if all you knew about the Christian came from the comments you read on this blog. Have you actually read a lot of them? Here the Christian God hates Muslims, despises those He made black and brown and yellow, wants his followers to assassinate the president and stage a coup against the elected US government, commands the torture and murder of prisoners of war, sanctions the machinegunning of desperate Latino women and children along the southern border, wants poor children to starve, separates good rapes from bad, would force 13-year-olds to carry their rapist's child to term - even if the rapist is daddy - and strip the poor of the right to vote. Ain't no love thy neighbor around here, unless the neighbor happens to be an aging white gun-toting reactionary. Why would I want to worship a God that vicious and hate filled? Why would you? Who am I to say the devout Christian man who wants to put land mines along the Mexican border isn't a typical after all? I'm actually giving the Christian God the benefit of the doubt when I argue that He (She, etc) hates the Tea Party. What god doesn't hate hatred?

        • Ariviste

          Give the Tea Partiers the benefit of a doubt. Go to a Tea Party meeting and see who they are. They are everyday Americans who are really worried about this country. They are not the people the MSM and the Democrats say they are. They are mothers and fathers, teachers, engineers, firemen, policemen, and farmers. They are not radicals or extremist in any way. That is a myth. Also, they are not all Republicans. You would be pleasantly surprised.

        • nickRay

          I attended a Tea Party rally once. Racist signs about Obama. Birther stupidity. 10,000 percent white. One confederate flag on display. anti-immigrant signs. Far from being worried about the country, I came away with the conviction they HATED the United States with a burning passion. You may be right that some of them are to the right of the Republicans, although there was no visible evidence of that. But you carefully avoid disputing my entirely accurate account of the hatred spewed on this blog day in and day out. You see it too if you're a regular. If these monsters aren't the Tea Party who are they? They aren't cops and firemen. They hate cops and firemen. They're lazy overpaid public leeches destroying the country, according to the people who post here, remember? Do you deny it?

        • Ariviste

          I have been involved with the Tea Party practically since it started and I have never witnessed anything like you describe. I have never seen a Confederate flag or anti-immigrant signs except signs that say control the border, which I personally support also as well as most Americans. Our group is lead by an engineer and a fireman. We have college professors (yes, there are conservative college professors), policeman, teachers, and lots of everyday people. There are none like you describe. Are you sure you were at a Tea Party rally. It sounds more like a KKK meeting. My husband used to be a cop for many years and both my sons are cops now. I would not be in a group that did not like cops. Just because someone makes racist remarks and acts like a jerk doesn't make him a Tea Party member. Did you ask any of the jerks, or just assume. And, yes, we have black conservatives in our group, too.

        • nickRay

          Well. I had a very different experience the one time I attended a Tea Party event and I can't challenge yours. But I wish you could explain things like this: and this: . And what about the ugly, violent, bigoted hate-filled comments that absolutely dominate this blog? You still haven't addressed that. I don't think you can deny they're there. Even the outright deaths threats against Obama, calls for a military coup against the US government, the cruel demonization and dehumanization of homosexuals and the most repellent nativist and misogynst posts go unchallenged except by the occasional leftwinger like me. How come? Why aren't you challenging the bigots and the seditionists and the sociopaths on this blog if they're so unrepresentative of the Tea Party? Its very hard to reconcile the hate with all the sanctimonius Bible thumping, and the calls to strip basic civil liberties from anyone who isn't old and white and extremely Right with the endless flag waving. Is that unfair?

        • Ariviste

          I looked at your first link and tried to look at the second, but the video kept stopping. Nowhere did I see anyone that I could identify as a Tea Party member. These people could be anyone. How do you know they are Tea Party? People tend to blame the Tea Party if anyone acts inappropriately or in a racist way. Example: When john Lewis and Nancy Pelosi were walking hand in hand into Congress. They accused the Tea Party of spitting on them and yelling racist slurs at them. A hundred thousand dollar reward was offered to anyone who could bring forward a picture or audio of anyone spitting or yelling racist remarks. None was ever brought forward because it didn't happen and these people who were lining the sidewalks were not Tea Party. Everyone who acts like these people on line or these people in your videos are not Tea Party, never have been or never will be. They would not be accepted in our group. Tea Party people don't act like that. I could not get much of the second video, but what I saw was heavily edited and I saw no identification for Tea Party.

        • nickRay

          The CNN clip was from a party who rode a Tea Party express bus to the DC rally a few years ago. And no you can't simply define away the most embarrassing Tea Partiers because of the damage they do your position. The Tea Party is, as you know, an amorphous, highly decentralized movement. There is no such thinh as a national TP organziation. There are any number of state andlocal committees and right many groups who calim to be national goups. But how many of them have formal membership lists or collect dues or elect officers? Not very many. That's not nessarily a criticism but being a Tea Partier is mostly a function of self-identification, and the reaactionaries and fools and bigots in the first clip undoubtedly self identify as Tea Partiers. And there remains the still-unanswered question about what you think about the contemptible comments on this blog by so many of the posters. Are you drumming them out of the Tea Party too? You're not trolling and you're not challenging them, yet you identify with the TP and you are here.

        • DCW16
        • Shermer

          One can't repent of blasphemy. It's the unforgivable sin, didn't you know?

        • rich_bown

          I thought jeesus forgives all sin? Hate the sin love the sinner? Didn't realise gods infinite love had so many restrictions on it!

        • John

          For your sake I hope you don't believe that Star Trek and Avatar actually happened, too.

        • NoCrossNoCrescent

          Lol. You sound so much like Muslims.

        • DCW16

          Nick . . . where you been?
          Ironic isn't it that Christian Schools, Charter Schools and Home Schooling . . . turn out far BRIGHTER STUDENTS than the Dimmicrap Union Controlled Public School System (which has been turning out MORONS for over 3 decades now) . . .
          Surveys have proven this over and over . . . but, the Public System does not change. Why do you suppose that is Nick? Because the Dimmicrap Party needs more Dumbed Down Voters . . . John Dewey's plan is workin well ! ! !

        • nickRay

          Charter schools are actually a much more mixed bag than you say and most states still do prohibit explicitly "Christian" schools incorporating whatever theology into the curriculum, Thank God. who knows about home schoolers. All there is anecdotal and self interested accounts, not empirical data. Nobody kows how to collect it. But in any case you bible beaters pack up the kids and leave the public schools. Seriously. Nobody gives a good damn. Go already. Don't worry. Be happy.

        • DCW16

          "most states still do prohibit explicitly "Christian" schools"

          That is just not true nick . . . but at least you are consistant . . . lol

          The 14th amendment is about "CIvil Rights" . . . the rights that Dimmicraps fought against since the civil war . . . they even formed their own army . . . the KKK ! ! !
          The leftist hypocrits 100 years ago introduced segregation in the army, are you Nancy Peeeelosi's brother or Harry Reid's krazy cousin?

        • Ariviste

          I think the Christian right were here first. Unless you count the Indians and they weren't atheist either. They had their own beliefs.

        • nickRay

          The operative word being "had." The good Christians slaughtered them in the millions, stole their land, kidnapped their children, forced them onto bantustans and, among many other crimes against anybody else's God, traded them smallpox infected blankets. Praise Jesus!

        • Davy Crockett

          Answer: Homeschooling! I know this is not for everyone, so there is another option. If we could take control of schools and cut all government away except the locak school board. Then require that only those with children in that school can serve as board memebers. This would help alot. Also if you homeschool or send your kids to a private school, that you would be free from taxes for the school system so parents could afford to do as they saw fit. Not only would schools be back in the hands of the community, but we could get rid of property taxes at the same time. We could just have a local school tax everyone pays except those who have their children educated differently.So poor folks could still get their children and education,which is important to maintain a free society. Additionally why should we send our tax dollars to the state and federal government so they get their cut and finally a tiny bit trickles back downt to our schools.

        • Agarnier

          I have a better idea. Why don't you and your ilk succeed from the Union. That way you can impose all your self serving riligious hokey pokey on all of your ignorant retards who are dumb enough to follow you. They have already experimented with this concept in Waco Texas with great success. Oh, and by the way, remind your children in your schools to drink all their cool aid. That should solve the job shortage problem. Mindless fools!

        • zack g

          I sometimes wonder if any Americans know their own constitution. Go read the first amendment than you'll see why you can't do that.

        • Agarnier

          Religions don't pay taxes. Who will pay for your alternative school system? Schools are public learning institutions and do not teach religious lies. Thats why you fools waste money on churches. My children require a useful education not religious Bullshit and my taxes will not pay for your stupidity.

        • DCW16

          My youngest son went to a Christian School . . . today, 6 years after graduating he has a career as an Automotive Tech. I have gotten numerous comments about his pleasant personality, and his ability to reason, communicate with adults since he was in his early teens. He has the ability to think critically, and is not taken in by every "fad" or limp idea or group think. He has been a leader whether in sports or on the job . . . and has seen many of his peers, products of the Public System fail to be productive . . . because they have attitudes, are unmotivated and feel upset when their "Self Esteem" is violated by Real Life in the Real World.
          At on time Ag . . . all children got a "Quality" Education like this . . . back in the day, when your parents and grand parents went to school.
          Christian Schools take a large burden off the Public System . . . if all the kid in your area in Christian Schools had to go to the Public System TOMORROW . . . the cost to the Public System would be MILLIONS . . . and guess who they would want to pay for it? YOU dummy ! ! ! Your children are getting a "Useless Education" in the public system . . . they are being "Indoctrinated" . . . just like you were ! ! !

        • Agarnier

          My son went to public school and just finished high school. He is looking forward to studying computer sciences despite the handicap of a public education. You should be proud of your son. He has overcome the double handicap of the educational system and religious bullshit. It takes a lot of mental manipulation to overcome religious indoctrination. Even more than overcoming the educational system.

        • DCW16

          The reality is . . . at my son's school 70% of the students went on to higher education . . . in the public system the number is MUCH lower.

          Almost all of my son's friends that are Underachievers . . . came out of the Public System.

          "Religious bs" ? ? ? Who founded the first Universities in the US? Who was the first to establish public schools? It was certainly not the "Humanists or Atheists" . . . also religion . . .

          In my part of the country there is an annual test given all Grade 7 students . . . the Private and Charter schools dominate the list . . . the public indoctrination system follows behind . . . every year. The teachers union tends to be somewhat radical and is only interested in working less for more ! ! !

          You want to talk about "Mental Manipulation" . . . The "Green" movement is totally indoctrination and belief in the green preachers . . . like Divinity School Dropout Al Bore . . . and promoted in Public Schools as "FACT". Public School Teachers spend more time today "Social Engineering" than teaching skills that will enable the kids to move onward and upward.

          I have listened to Univ. Profs tell me how kids today are ill-prepared for 1st year U . . . basic skills lacking, compared to even 2 decades ago. But they can quote all the leftist dogma and gorebull warming nonsense.

          Another friend, an engineer, who hired University Grads echoes the concern . . . he hired many that had absolutely ZERO common sense and he had to hold their hands. We are raising a generation of Food Stamp applicants . . . America spends the MOST money per student on the planet . . . and get some of the poorest results . . . and you are concerned about religion?

          As we watch another Leftist State collapse in the Euro Union . . . how long do you think it will be until the US admin figures out maybe it should raid a few bank accounts?

        • Agarnier

          I certainly hope your son is a more critical thinker than you. If not, I wouldn't take my vehicle to his shop, and automotive repair is not brain surgery. You insist on bad mouthing everyone's efforts and abilities except those of the delusional believers in fairytales yet, you seem to have an aversion to scientific discovery. Science will tell you that the brains of humans do not fully mature physically and emotionally until they are into their twenties. However, children have the capability of performing social expectations when properly motivated by reward, sort of like training your pet. But, they are usually incapable of comprehending the consequences, long term rewards and emotional nuances of their actions until their late teens or early twenties. Hence, their fearlessness and willingness to take risks. You are being too kind to your schools of religious indoctrination. Most of your children's success oriented attitudes are promoted from the home environment. Einstein was a Jew who went to a christian school and was an average student. From elementary school through college, his teachers and professors thought him lazy, sloppy, and insubordinate. Many of his teachers thought he would never amount to anything. Students of high intelligence are often bored in class and lower schools rarely build great intellect or social conscience.
          As for the green preachers, they have the support of the scientific field to back up their claims, unlike religion. If you don't believe me, just go to your blood clinic and have your blood tested for evidence of man made pollutants. I wager you will be surprised at the results. The greed of industry is destroying our atmosphere & water table and has driven hundreds of animal species into extinction. When are you mindless religious lunatics going to realize that saving the planet for your son and his sons is a hell of a lot more important than saving your non-existent immortal soul.
          You think you have the moral high ground but, your morals are severely flawed by two thousand year old religious stupidity. Morality has a real purpose in humanity and that purpose is for the improved evolution and future survival of the human species. All religion cares about is supporting the greed of the church and your unwavering committal to die for your mindless beliefs. There is a lot more to life than religious lies created to enslave humanity to a single mindset of an impossible goal, even into death. How sad!
          Your concern for our banking system is over the top. I agree that the money grab by the Cyprus government is a drastic move. But, when their banking system has been promoted by wealthy thieves to avoid paying taxes, they have to accept their responsibility to the global banking system. I would sooner relinquish 20% of my savings to help pull my community from imminent disaster. Wouldn't You?! It is certainly more palatable than handing it over to the greed of industry.

        • DCW16

          "The greed of industry is destroying our atmosphere & water table and has driven hundreds of animal species into extinction. When are you mindless religious lunatics going to realize that saving the planet for your son and his sons is a hell of a lot more important than saving your non-existent immortal soul.
          You think you have the moral high ground but, your morals are severely flawed by two thousand year old religious stupidity."

          And you're a "Critical Thinker" . . . LOL There is ZERO Truth in that statement.

          You believe in the "Great Gorebull Warming Religion" . . . it has been described as such by a British Judge and many others. Your concern for the planet is really heart warming, but, today the USA is one of the cleanest Environments on the Planet. Do you Remember what it was like 50 years ago? In the northern states many burned coal to heat their homes, the snow was black. LA was in a cloud of smog, you could barely see 1000 yards some days.

          TODAY the snow is white, most of LA's smog blows in from the Orient, cars are 98% cleaner than 1970 and so is everything else.

          There has been no Gorebull Warming for 16 Years now. But the alarmists are still screaming.

          Explain to me, you claim to be smart, how CO2 1/36 thousands of the atmosphere, mostly created by nature (man's contribution about 3% of the 1/36) can warm the planet? Bet you can't . . . because the Science does not exist.

          The USA and Canada have both reduced carbon output in the last few years.

          But, GW Believers, like you, actually think that MAN can control the weather . . . as the north east is still getting snow and cold we are heading into April.

          Do you remember when the "Experts" told us in 1975 that an ICE AGE was Imminent? Do you remember the book "Population Bomb" in the 70's by Erlick and Holdren, yes that Holdren, the loon in the WH today. This was passed off as science . . . utter nonsense ! ! !

          "100 of animals into EXTINCTION" . . . name 10 . . . that is an INSANE Statement . . . you a member of WWF? Since 1970s the Polar Bear population in the Cdn Arctic has increased by almost 40% . . . fact ! ! !

          "Religion of stupidity" . . . I would suggest your "Environmentalism" is a religion of stupidity . . . name one country with over 300 million folks cleaner than the USA?

          "Banking System" . . . are you not concerned about the soon to be 20 TRILLION + US Debt? How do you pay it back? Do you even COMPREHEND how much 20 trillion is? There are many banks in the US that are on the edge . . . I would be careful where I left my money. It is not Rational to say "Saving the Planet for my son" . . . when the govt is spending my son into a debt that can NEVER be Paid BACK . . . The reality is . . . if my son has to live in a BANKRUPT Country . . . do you think for a moment that the Environment WILL BE CLEANER OR DIRTIER? I would suggest that is will be MUCH DIRTIER . . . because only Wealthy Countries are clean . . . have you ever travelled the planet . . . go to Germany or Canada . . . see wealth and clean . . . then go to Indian or Russia . . . what do you see? You want to see an oily mess . . . go to the ME see how they extract their oil, compared to oil from Canada. Hundreds of thousands of miles of pipeline in North America, but you're against more . . . after all its way cleaner to bring oil in tankers from Saudi Arabia and Venzeula than a pipeline from Canada and North Dakota, yes?

          "I would relinquish 20% of my savings" . . . to cover for some inept Socialist Govt ? Why . . . to encourage them to do the same thing again? You claim to be "bright" . . . and make statements like that? When govts pick winners and losers . . . everyone loses . . . eg: the Solyndra thing and the dozens of other investments that the Bamster made with tax dollars . . . all went broke! Name ONE socialist govt on the planet that is doing well?

          You sir are far more "Religious" than I . . . your "Belief" in all this NONSENSE that is NOT Supported by Science is Mind Boggling . . .

          Your buddy Fat Al Bore would not Debate this man . . . why?

          Over 50 believing Scientists and Enviros were invited to this Conference . . . NONE Came . . . wonder why?

          East Anglia emails and fraud . . .

          Go for it . . . watch and enlighten yourself . . . it may make you an Enviro heretic !

        • Agarnier

          Scientists created a mathematical model based on man made CO2 and other sources of emissions over 50 years ago and were criticized for their ardent predictions. Their critics have all fallen by the wayside and the science of 50 years ago was underestimated. Global warming has been advancing even more rapidly than they anticipated using the data available at that time. Your sellout scientists ignored the scientific numbers to promote the expansion of the oil industry and are no different today. Their monetary greed clouds their scientific conclusions making them self centred & unscientific. That is exactly the reason why serious scientists depend on research and facts for their conclusions rather than waste their time arguing reality with the greed of industry and mindless religious fanatics who believe in all sorts of nonsense that cannot be proven. Any reduction in levels, (there hasn't been any in 50 years), would be a huge improvement over increasing the levels, which is the reality of the science provided. Your approval of the Canadian environmental protection model is entirely misplaced and they have become one of the worst polluters. The Alberta oil sands you so ardently promote is the dirties oil manufactured any where in the world. It takes the pollution from mining two tons of raw bitumen and processing it to produce one barrel of crude oil. As with the US, Canada has had pipeline oil leaks in just the past year destroying the ecology of lakes and ground water in Saskatchewan. You and your so called oil scientists exhibit " the stupidity of Religion" and need to get your heads out of your ass. The oil and weapons industries don't care how many innocent citizens die as long as they have wealth and power. That's changing as we speak and a lot more rapidly than idiots like you would like. Obama is the man of the people, not just white folk like you. The Canadian PM (Adolph Harper) has made huge cuts to environmental research programs across the board in his past budgets to protect and promote Alberta's dirty oil and proposed pipelines. Shades of a Republican George Bush chapter of lies and religious delusion to promote an illegal war.
          Polar Bears were never extensively researched in the past because they tend to roam about and are hard to identify from a distance, creating double counts. They are difficult to track on their home of ice. Now that the ice fields are shrinking they are moving inland to hunt for food. This creates conflict with human settlements and Polar Bears view humans as a food source when they cannot reach the seals. Their movements toward human habitat also accounts for the false increase from previous low counts in population. They are easier to count in a smaller habitat. Similar to the endangered wolf, the polar bear is an endangered species if forced to compete with human habitat. The following link will provide an unbiased account of animal extinctions and their causes without the interruption of Big oil and the Republican/FOX News propaganda machine. Take your time and educate yourself well. You many turn your thoughts to your grandchildren and take action to save their environment instead of burying your head in the oil sands:
          Enjoy the read and I hope you are critically minded enough to see the folly of your religious ways.

        • DCW16

          "Scientists created a mathematical model based on man made CO2 and other sources of emissions over 50 years ago and were criticized for their ardent predictions. Their critics have all fallen by the wayside and the science of 50 years ago was underestimated. Global warming has been advancing even more rapidly than they anticipated using the data available at that time."

          WHO? No Names just myth. Did they create "Computer Models" 50 years ago? lol

          Did you know that in the 20th Century there were TWO Global Cooling Scares and TWO Global Warming scares?

          Did you know in the 20th Century the earth warmed 2 degrees F . . . and the IPCC has now predicted that in the 21st Century the earth will warm 2 degrees F. . . I see consistency . . . you see disaster?

          They created "Computer Models" in the 80's and 90's . . . THAT HAVE BEEN 100% WRONG ! ! ! The oceans Did Not Rist, The Poles DID NOT MELT . . .

          I have worked with computers for 30 years . . . their models even Ignored the Sun . . . no wonder they were worthless . . . read the East Anglia e-mails . . . you will begin to understand how they controlled the Peer Review process, they controlled the computer data and made up Mann's Hookey Stick Graph . . . it was about Control and Money . . . nothing more ! ! !

          Polar Bear NUMBERS come from Environment Canada who have been studying them diligently since the 60's. Of 13 groups, 9 are multiplying and thriving.

          I supply FACTS . . . you supply nonsense ! ! !

          "The Alberta oil sands you so ardently promote is the dirties oil manufactured any where in the world." More Nonsense . . .

          Venezuela oil and California Heavy Oil have more Carbon Content . . . thus are DIRTIER ! ! ! The oil sands contribute less than One Thousandth of Canada's Global emissions which are at 2% today. Compared to 25% for China and 20% for the USA. If you are concerned about CO2 . . . but CO2 is only 390 ppm of the atmosphere . . . that is about 1/36 thousandth of the total atmosphere. CO2 cannot control the climate or weather.

          Mars has an atmosphere almost entirely CO2 . . . yet their day to night temperatures vary 100's of degrees F. Why? Where's the GreenHouse Effect?

          As Dr Willie Soon, Solar Scientist, Predicted over a decade ago . . . the globe will cool . . . he has been 100% correct . . . as there has been no Gorebull Warming for 16 years now.

          Read Dr. Patrick Moore's book on the Oil Sands and Environment . . . he was one of the FOUNDERS of Greenpeace.

          You subscribe to the "Religion" of Environmentalism, Mother Earth Gaia nonsense and you criticize Christians . . . that is Patently Insane . . . as I could walk you through literally 100's of Prophesies in the Old Testament that have been fulfilled beyond dispute.

          Watched Dawkins in a debate a few years ago with a Christian Gentleman . . . Dawkins did not do well . . . although he is an intelligent man . . . he is a little misguided. But hey . . . one day we will all know the truth . . . even Mooohamed knows the "Truth" today . . . eh Agie?

        • Agarnier

          Unfortunately, you are like most Christians. You see the face of Jesus in everything. Your head is so far up your ass you even see his face in bullshit. I'm beginning to believe you are a troll. The links you provided are non-scientific drivel. Greenpeace is not a scientific organization but, they do accept support for scientific endeavours when the money is right. The link on northern gateway is written and produced by Embridge, the company that owns majority share in Alberta oil sands and Northern Gateway Pipeline. Here are the facts: be sure you read all of the information.

        • DCW16

          Your Pension Plan probably owns a major share of the Cdn Oil Sands Companies, and there are many. You abject ignorance is typical of a GW Believer. Even if it was Warming . . . do you think MAN could alter that? Do you think Humans would be better off in a Warm or Cold Climate? I think the folks moving to Texas and Arizona answer that one.
          Greenpeace was one of the first "Environmental" Organizations . . . and Dr. Patrick Moore is an Environmental Scientist. He left Greenpeace when they wanted to BAN Chlorine back in the day. What do you think of banning Chlorine Ag? Do you think it is a GOOD IDEA? Let me know? Your comebacks are typical lieberal . . . lot of retoric, no FACTS.
          What about the FACT that there are hundreds of thousands of miles of pipelines in North America? One more is going to change the world according to Enviro-nazis. But do you know who is financing the anti-Enbridge pipeline movement? The Rockerfeller Foundation, Tides Foundation, The Saudi govt, and of course George Soreass. What do these folks have in common Ag? They all have big OIL INTERESTS . . . and certainly don't want the competition. 100 of millions have been given to Native Groups and Enviro-nazis to fight progress. The irony is . . . like the Baken Oil . . . Sands Oil will be transported by RAIL if the Pipeline is not built . . . much safer eh Ag?
          Tell me Ag . . . do you use OIL? Or do you ride a bike, have no plastics, no I-phone, no running shoes or oil based fabrics in your life. Never ride an airplane, car or train?
          The USA gets HALF is Electricity from COAL . . . and you are worrying about an Oil Pipeline? That is patently INSANE ! ! !
          Do you think Civilization would be better TOMORROW if we stopped using FOSSIL Fuels TODAY? I suspect we would be living a lot like the folks in Africa rather than like your Bud Fat Al Bore in California. What do you think? Or do you . . . .
          What will replace oil tomorrow AG? . . . windmills, solar or maybe Nuclear? Ever run a modern Factory with Windmills and Solar Panels Ag? It don't friggin work.

          I see the face of Jesus . . . and you see the face of Fat Al, David the fraud Suzuki and Professor Mann . . . lol
          Gorebull Warming as I said . . . Mother Earth Gaia RELIGION Ag . . .
          And Ag . . . what did you decide on the "Chlorine" thing . . . do you think it is BAD? Should we like the Greenpeace loons eliminate it from the Planet?
          Your answer is probably YES . . . yes ! ! !
          Well here's the skinny on Chlorine . . . Chlorine is an ELEMENT on the PERIODIC TABLE . . . a building block of life on EARTH . . . as is CARBON . . . only a friggin idiot would attempt to ban it . . . but then . . . there is no shortage of idiots in the Enviro-nazi Movement today . . .

        • Agarnier

          My pension plan is fully invested in a well balanced portfolio of stocks, bonds & mutuals and I'm pretty sure there is no portion tied up in Embridge. China owns a large portion of the Athabaska oil sands now, thanks to Canadian PM (Adolph Harper). You believe in a fairy who lives in the skies and you call me ignorant?!
          Like anyone of intelligence, such as those you bad mouth in your post, they are not against industrialization. They simply use science and common sense to force polluting industries to use some of their unholy profits to keep emissions to levels that do not destroy the environment. Pipelines are a scar across a pristine environment creating havoc to the ecosystem. If we have to ruin the landscape for profit we need to make it as safe as humanly possible and utilize its function for more uses than just pumping oil. A rail head has multiple applications and is as safe as a pipeline, maybe safer. If one train is derailed the spill is limited to a much smaller area than a pipeline leak that may not be repaired for hours, even days. If Canadians had common sense they would use the bitumen in producing product; fuels, plastics, etc. near the oil sands and increase their profits 10 fold by selling it on the world market. Oil is an important resource but, there is no need to feed the greed of industry and pollute the planet. There are better ways of choking that dog. A few years in Africa might humble you enough to accept your responsibility to the survival of all humanity. Your a FatCat with no consideration for others, like all religious fanatics. It's time you and others like you, learned a little humility. The world wasn't created by your mindless, non-existent god for you to rape and destroy at your whim and those of us who are sane enough to care will make sure you don't. This is the only environment we have until we explore space and we don't want idiots ruining it for everyone else. Your greed is misplaced if there is no one left for you to enslave and take advantage off.
          What is this fetish you have with chlorine? It is an element, atomic number 17, one of five halogen elements. It is used in many industrial applications including disinfectants for swimming pools and drinking water, plastics, bleach, etc. it is an oxidant and needs to be used with care. Its more common form is sodium chloride. When properly used it is safe to the general public, just like oil products. Why do you ask?
          Green Energy, as we call it, has not been researched due to industry interference in the past. Even the electric car was plausible decades ago but, was purchased and buried by the oil industry. "Look it up". Countries such as Holland have reduced its use of non-renewable fuels by 25% due to the use of tidal, wind and solar generators. There is research into geo-thermal energy that utilizes the heat provided by the earths magma. Forward thinking industrialists are excited about the future of green energy but, due to lobbying by dirty oil, governments have not supported its research. Government like the GOP that religious idiots like you support. Speaking of fuck-ups, Bush spoke of it in his last term but, did nothing to promote it.
          This conversation is getting a bit long in the tooth and I feel I am wasting my efforts on a spiritualistic troll. True believers rarely find sanity and everything they believe in, including their science, is based of fabrication and lies, not reality. I am wasting valuable time and scientific proofs on those committed to two thousand year old mythology that flies in the face of true science and reality. You should all be committed for rehabilitation.

        • DCW16

          "My pension plan is fully invested in a well balanced portfolio of stocks, bonds & mutuals "

          I guarantee if you have Mutual Funds you have big oil. My advice sell the bonds and mutual funds now . . . the only thing propping up the Dow Jones is the 900 Billion the Fed is printing every year. As leftist Cities and States FAIL to meet their pension demands in the coming months and years the bonds will look more like Greek Bonds.

          "Pipelines are a scar across a pristine environment creating havoc to the ecosystem. If we have to ruin the landscape for profit we need to make it as safe as humanly possible and utilize its function for more uses than just pumping oil."

          Strange comment . . . as hundreds of thousands of miles of pipelines are UNDERGROUND . . . and if they don't tell you . . . you would not know they are even there. Without Fossil Fuels . . . we in North America would be living like the Africans today.

          "Green Energy, as we call it, has not been researched due to industry interference in the past. Even the electric car was plausible decades ago but, was purchased and buried by the oil industry."

          Really, Denmark last year closed down windmill factories in Sweden and Denmark . . . laying off several thousand workers. Why you ask? Cause the don't friggin work. Cold winter day in Denmark, no wind, NO POWER, so they have to have a backup system, you wind up building two parallel systems. In Ontario Canada they have spent Billions on Solar and Windmills . . . electricity prices HIGHEST in North America and very few killiwats generated.
          Electric Car . . . back in 1913 an electric car would go about 80 miles on a charge . . . and were quite popular, especially with the ladies. Then Cadillac invented the "Self-starter" . . . today the Electric Car will go about 80 miles . . . costs 40 large or more. The Volt and the Fisker thing have burned down houses and garages because the Nicad batteries get too hot . . . unless you rotate in a 40 mile radius . . . they are still useless.
          The govt has pissed away trillions of dollars investing in fantacies like solar and windmills . . .
          Tidal power, thermo, nuclear are more likely to succeed. But until we invent "Dilithium chrystals" aka Star Trek . . . we will not be able to replace coal, oil and natural gas as the predominant drivers of an Industrial Nation. Hydro power has long been a boon to many Canadian provinces. Fossil fuels brought civilization, industry, wealth and freedom to western civilizations. The air in North America is cleaner today than at any time in the last 100 years . . . and you complain?

          Calling PM Harper names is just INSANE . . . when to O'bammy Clown has shut down oil production in the Gulf and on Federal Lands for several years now. The Rigs from the Gulf went to Brazil to drill for Petro Bras . . . and who owns much of Petro Bras? Why Obammy buddy George Soreass . . . nothin to see here folks ! ! !
          The folks like the Rockerfeller Foundation and other are spending 100's of millions trying to demonize the Oil Sands . . . why? Because they don't want the competition . . . there is more oil in northern Alberta and Saskatchewan than all of the ME. Have you ever been there? Read Dr Moore's book on the subject . . . get friggin informed ! ! !

          Have you ever travelled the globe and seen how oil production is done in Nigeria, the Middle East and other third world countries? Obviously NOT. I would much rather get my oil here in North America . . . where strict environmental standards make it one of the cleanest recovery processes on the planet. But then being an enviro-nut . . . its not about that. Its about getting back to "Little House on the Prairie" . . .
          Do you have a car, an I phone, plastics, man-made fabrics, a gas stove, running shoes, a home with vinyl siding? All this stuff is from fossil fuels . . .
          When you live like Pa Engels . . . you can tell me how "Pure" you are . . . but until then you are just another Enviro-hypocrit like Fat Al, Suzuki, WWF and numverous other loons that want to get into my wallet and control my life for a mythical story.
          I know the man the originated the 1992 Enviro Conference in Reo . . . the man that started the IPCC . . . . Maurice Strong is his name, he worked for Power Corp in Montreal, was appointed to the UN in the 70's by Trudeau (a real marxist) . . . Strong had a Ranch in Colorado in the 80's . . . had all the global panthiestic religions set up there . . . he was a "Mother Earth Gaia" Worshipper as was his wife . . . the man is a Billionaire LOON . . . he was driving this nonsense since the 80's.
          Today, because he was linked to the Iraq Oil for Food scam . . . he lives in China. Fortunately he is almost 90 . . . and soon will be going on to his enlightenment and reward . . . these are the type of people you follow.

          And remember . . . when progress is made on cleaner more efficient forms of ENERGY . . . IT WILL NOT BE THE GOVERNMENT . . . it will be the Private Sector, real Scientists not the IPCC clowns or your fright nite friends. Like say the WWF . . . that told us that just a 2 degree F temperature change would kill thousands of species? But, if you have ever been to North Dakota . . . you would know that the temperature change from January to July is close to 150 degrees F . . . and NOTHING IS DYIN . . . more nonsense from the enviro-nazis . . .

          A good read by a brilliant lady . . .

          In Malthusian fashion, the narrator warns that the most “terrifying’ of all future prospects is a “climate that is changing so rapidly that we have no time to adapt to it because we are pressing against the limits of the planet to sustain our civilization.” Climate and weather are two different things, not interchangeable, but low information viewers are easily persuaded.

        • Agarnier

          I would be a fool to take financial advice from a web jockey. You know no more about my pension plan than you know about industrial pollution. I guarantee that my pension is secure , at least until I die.

          Pipelines do not appear underground by Devine intervention. They have to be placed underground in most cases by ditching methods that destroy ecosystems and require access for future maintenance, replacement and repair. Half of the 800 mile Alaska pipeline is above ground due to permafrost. Oil companies are famous for cutting costs on maintenance & repair creating more hazards. The TransCanada Keystone pipeline that opened in 2010 had eleven leaks in its first year.

          As I said before. Green Energy has not been researched due to energy industry interference in the past. Oil, gas and coal are by far the cheapest most available energy commodities and by far the largest polluters of the environment. They also eat up the vast majority of Government tax incentives and grants. No one said that fossil fuels were dispensable but, if Green energy had been bankrolled from public coffers as much as ooil development over the past 100 years, it is likely that improvements in those fields would have mitigated our large dependance on such polluters, especially the automotive industry.

        • DCW16

          As windmills kill 100's of thousands of birds and bats accross the US today . . . the enviro-nazi's ignore it ! ! ! 3 ducks land in a tailing pond at Ft. McMurray a few years ago . . . and it is national news for a week.

          Watch the video on U-Tube of the Condor being chopped up by a windmill in California. 100's of Eagles and rare birds are killed every year. Plus the windmills are an Eyesore on the landscape.

          Then there's the Spanish . . . who built windmills on the flyway of a rare African Buzzard . . . slaughtered them by the thousands. And of course every "Green Job" that was created in Spain was at the cost of 2 or 3 conventional jobs . . . maybe that is why they are BANKRUPT Today.

          You don't like pipelines . . . but you like tankcars . . . today oil from the Bakan area in North Dakota is transported to the Gulf by RAIL . . . but its OK . . . the Railway belongs to Obammy buddy Warren Buffet ! ! ! You need to do a little research . . . modern pipelines are extremely safe.

          Do you remember what "Pollution" was like in the 50's and 60's? The country is MUCH Cleaner today . . .

          How did you get soooooo old . . . and sooooo dumb? The "Green" movement has been the realm of the extreme left for decades, since the fall of the Soviet Union. Like the dimmicrap party it has been invaded by Marxists.

          Here are some Quotes from some of your Fellow Travellers . . . like the Insane Canuck Maurice Strong . . . who was instrumental in creating the IPCC . . . and the incredibly "Wrong" and foolish Paul Ehrlich . . . his buddy Holdren is in Obammy's cabinet today.

          This is incredibly bad news for the Malthusian-Club of Rome-socialist left-radical greenies. It is their mandate (read the Club of Rome memos and all the annual IPCC meeting notes) to increase the price of energy and make its availability rare.

          "Isn't the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn't it our responsiblity to bring that about?" - Maurice Strong, founder of the UN Environment Programme

          "A massive campaign must be launched to de-develop the United States. De-development means bringing our economic system into line with the realities of ecology and the world resource situation." - Paul Ehrlich, Professor of Population Studies

          SIMPLE EXPERIMENT . . . you too can be a scientist . . .

          The following is a summary of the makeup of the earths’ atmosphere:
          Imagine, if you will, viewing the atmosphere in “parts per million”. Using a vessel capable of holding 1 million equally sized grains of sand; the vessel content would be as follows:

          Nitrogen – 76.55 % or 765,500 grains of sand. Color White

          Oxygen – 20.54 % or 205,400 grains of sand. Color Pale Blue

          Argon – .91 % or 9,100 grains of sand. Color Light Tan (sand)

          These three gases make up 98% of the earths’ atmosphere; the remaining 2% are the so called “Greenhouse Gases”, without which we would freeze to death. Your vessel is now 98% full.

          Next add:

          Water Vapor – 1.95% or 19,500 grains of sand. Color Medium Blue.

          CO2 – .038% or 380 grains of sand. Color Black (“it’s a terrible hazard to humans”- quote source the EPA)

          Methane – .012% or 120 grains of sand. Color Dark Blue – (the methane number will include miscellaneous gases that are too small to measure here).

          Your vessel is now full!

          Now, of the 380 grains of Black sand that represent CO2, 364.8 (96%)are introduced to the atmosphere “naturally”- volcanoes, sea floor expansion, wet lands, etc., the remaining 15.2 grains (4%) represent mankind’s contribution to CO2 in the atmosphere. This, of course, assumes that mankind is not a “natural” entity in the makeup of life on earth.

          The 15.2 grains of Black sand are the complete volume of CO2 attributed to GLOBAL Human Activity. As industrious as the U.S has been let’s assume that we are responsible for 25% of the human contribution of atmospheric CO2 (total of 1% of the CO2 in the atmosphere). Therefore, we would be responsible for 3.8 grains of Black sand in the vessel.

          In order to correct this terrible injustice to the earth we would have to eliminate all manufacturing, all food processing, any and all industry. Business such as hotels, restaurants, bakeries, yes even “government”; shut down every plane, train, bus, motor home, SUV, and PRIUS. Homes would have to go unheated and ALL of the 300 million people in the United States would have to Stop Breathing!!!!, which renders all conditions above moot. Once all of this is accomplished you can remove 3.8 grains of Black Sand from your vessel. (Removal of the 3.8 grains assumes you are the last man standing.)

          California being what it is, if the rest of the country is unwilling to participate, then California can forge ahead on its’ own. Therefore, with the size of the California population being about 10% of the nation as a whole, once all California industry is eliminated and all residence Stop Breathing, you can remove .38 (POINT 38) grains of Black Sand from your vessel. The .38 grains would likely be offset with Dark Blue grains of sand from all of the methane emitted from the dead bodies after breathing stops.

          I hope this has put the issue in a usable perspective for you. Introduce “SOUND SCIENCE” to the nation, perhaps we can move forward with a logical approach and eliminate some of the misguided and damaging legislation that is currently being proposed in this country for an absolute farce. Maybe then we get get some of our industry back from overseas and regan our natyions prospertiy.

          Source of Gas percentages:


          The whole world only uses 1.3 trillion gallons of oil a year. A cubic mile is 1.1 trillion gallons. This oil is really black gold. Can you image we use 25% of the total a year to power about 200 million vehicles here in the United State plus many other products.

          The math for world consumption is 85 million barrels a day X 42 to get gallons then x 365 days to get 1.3 trillion gallons. It is amazing that we power the world with about a cubic mile of oil a year. It is an amazing product.

          When you compare this total amount of oil to volcanoes erupting and forest fires, oil does not pollute. If we burned all the oil ever produced, 110 million square miles it would not pollute the planet.

        • Agarnier

          You are definitely a troll. Who is paying an idiot like you, and feeding you a litany of talking points to defeat the true sciences? Is it Embridge? (wink, wink)
          You even had to stoop to mentioning a few bird deaths due to windmills when thousands of birds, waterfowl, fish, sea life even some humans are injured or killed by oil leaks and related petroleum pollution annually.

          The industrial production of oil and oil byproducts are by far the largest polluters on the face of this green earth. Even the Great Pacific Garbage Patch is almost 100% plastics from oil byproduct. All other pollutants combined do not even come close to pollutants produced by the use of oil and oil byproducts. United Airlines are in the news for ignoring pollution control regulations. That's just a snowball on the tip of the iceberg of pollutants that are being spewed into our atmosphere and environment every day from petroleum.

          It would take the mind of a child influenced by religion to actually believe any of the pseudo science and bullshit they have been spoon feeding you. You are the underbelly of the oil industry, feigning religious leanings to lure the defenceless Christians into a false sense of faith in what you tell them. You are as devious, backstabbing and nefarious as the pedophiles in the Vatican. Fortunately, the scourge of the greed of industry and bigotry of church leaders is becoming prominent in media headlines on a daily bases. All your bullshit and talking points are the farthest thing from the truth and only the most religiously indoctrinated would trust anything you say. Your era of mindless profit at the cost of the environment is rapidly drawing to an end. Oil industries will be forced into protecting the environment, regardless of cost, whether they like it or not.

        • DCW16

          And you're a retired ole hippie . . . probably living somewhere in Oregon . . . LOL
          "A few Birds"? As in 100's of THOUSANDS . . . and you're not concerned because they don't have OIL on them . . .insane ! ! !
          So-called Fossil Fuels will be with us for many decades . . . there is NOTHING to replace them TOMORROW . . . next week or next year. Someday that will change . . . but your silly windmills and solar panels will not power a MODERN INDUSTRIAL CITY.
          You dislike of the oil industry indicated to me you have lost the ability to reason . . . Profits of major Oil producers is in the range of about 3% after taxes . . . that is not much higher than the local food store chain . . . anyone that had a slight understanding of business would know that they invest 100's of billions of dollars in exploration . . . thus 3% profit is also large. I have several friends that work in the "Off-shore" Oil Business . . . and what have seen in the Middle East and Africa . . . where the folks just don't give a damn is disturbing. Perhaps you and some of your Enviro-loon friends should travel there and encourage them to fix the mess. China is also a disaster . . . but the Enviro-loons just stay in the USA . . . because that is where they can extract the most money out of the clueless to fill their coffers. They are NOT concerned with Global Pollution . . . only Raising US Dollars ! ! !
          Your heros . . . in the Gorebull Warming movement have produced ZERO Science to back up their CO2 claims . . . they have been 100% WRONG for 20 years . . . and you buy into this krap? They have only debated a few times . . . once in New York a couple of years ago, some of Hansen's folks debated Dr Richard Lindsen, MIT Earth Sciences . . . and he shredded their data (beliefs) . . . and there were a couple of debates in Australia. When you have no case . . . don't debate.
          The only way out of the O'bammy mess and the massive debt is to grow the economy . . . and that requires energy, cheap plentiful energy. We will either produce our own gas and oil and prosper . . . or be relegated to the DUSTBIN OF HISTORY. But of course that does not matter to you . . . you won't be here . . . but millions of the next generation will suffer huge from your "Green" agenda. Pension plans will go bankrupt, taxes will increase, the dollar is already failing, could collapse in the not to distant future . . . but you are ok with that.
          Fat Al flies around the planet in a private jet, has several mansions . . . he uses 100 times the energy that I do in a year, even if you factor in my race cars . . . and you hold up this ilk and worship them . . . they tell you how to live and then live like European Royalty as they Preach the Gospel of Gorebull Warming to you, the clueless believer . . . laughable ! ! !
          As I have pointed out to you . . . the UN and the IPCC are Corrupt to the Core . . . the earth is NOT WARMING, The Oceans are Not Rising, The Poles are Not Melting . . . only in the minds of the "Believers" . . . like you ! ! !

        • Agarnier

          Your rant on the facts and figures are about as accurate and truthful as your mindless religious beliefs. At least the bible offers fools a sense of redemption but, there is no redemption for the greed of oil and petrochemical industries. You're still tilting at windmills and your numbers for bird deaths is not overly exaggerated.

          But, they are far safer to birds than the carnage created by oil spills and pollution.
          Stop trolling fool. You are promoting a lost cause. The world is growing tired of being poisoned by petroleum pollution, even in their food and food containers that utilize BPA in liners for cans used for human consumption.
          Your oil and Christian based beliefs are fraught with pseudo science and blatant lies.

        • DCW16

          Not only birds . . . but thousands of BATS as well . . . that's real bats . . . not
          Ding-bats like you ole timer. The swirling blades disrupt their radar and they crash into things . . . a real problem. In Ontario Canada where they build these monstrosities close to towns and villages, the folks are complaining about disturbances . . . there is a Scientific Study underway now ! ! !

          Oil spills? Other than the Gulf, which was probably man made, where has there been any problem in North America?

          wikipedia . . . the site you can make say whatever you want . . . they are suspect as best.

          But lets talk about your bogeymen . . . the NWO gang. Who do you think is behind the Gorebull Warming Movement? I have given you info on TWO of the biggest players . . . Soreass and Strong . . . they are FOR a global Socialist Government and say so unabashedly . . . you of course know nothing about them. The enviro-loons and the Globalists are the same gang . . . they use the weak-minded among us to protest and parade endlessly . . . when you talk to the folks holding their signs . . . most just repeat the nonsense that "the poles are melting" . . . and "the Polar Bears are dying" . . . both inaccurate at best. What better way to unite and control the masses . . . after all who could be against clean air and water? Nobody is . . . but the Great Lie of CO2 and temperature is nonsense. If you had read any of Professor Carter's stuff . . . Paleo Climatologist, by the way . . . he explaines how CO2 follows warming sometimes by a hundred years . . . not the other way around.

          Christian beliefs? Were not most of the first real scientists Christian? Did Christians not start the First Universities and Schools in America?

          What kind of krap you preaching . . . you are the "religious" envior-loon here.

          I listen to Scientists who actually talk some sense . . . not alarmists like the nutcase Hansen . . . who has been 100% WRONG for 20 years.

          The head of the IPCC the Indian Gentleman, when asked what his Qualifications Were . . . said "My qualifications are the same as Al Gore's" . . . . in other words NONE ! ! ! Greensleeze is pulling in 100's of millions with this schtick, and WWF, Suzkui and others are living large playing the game. What have they done in the last two decades for the millions they have sucked out of the economy? Travelled the globe to fancy conferences with their UN accomplices and lived LARGE ! ! !

          A decade ago . . . Dr. Willie Soon, Solar Scientist said the earth was going into a cooling stage . . . he has been 100% RIGHT . . .

          Dr. Nils-Axel Mörner’s extensive hands-on experience and 40 years of mindful focus bring valuable context to the climate change debate. Is the IPCC giving us an accurate picture?

          He's in the field . . . not sitting at a Computer . . . like the Myth-makers.

          Dr. Tim Ball . . .

          Perhaps the scariest thing about “climate change” and “global warming” is that by not familiarizing ourselves with geology and climatology, we stand to be manipulated and scared into submission by the media. News feeds send the most alarming messages and images of melting glaciers to the unsuspecting public. However, sensationalist news offers an inaccurate view of the situation, and the information they leave out keeps us from understanding glacier activity and glaciation in context.

          For a clearer picture of glaciation, I consulted Dr. Tim Ball, who understands the process from a whole systems perspective. Dr. Ball brings us necessary information that traditional media outlets do not cover. He explains the geological, climatological, and historical data to help us separate fact from fiction. Learn what we need to know about the Arctic, ice, ice sheets, and glaciers once and for all!

          Read Lomborg's book . . . "Cool it - The Skeptical Environmentalist's Guide To Global Warming"

          Bjørn Lomborg
          I was asked what I think of the New York Times claim that we can soon live great without fossil fuels.
          In short, this is simply silly. Today, the world get's 81% of its energy from fossil fuels, in 2035, even with very generously, green assumptions, we'll get 79% of our energy from fossil fuels.

          You are Part of the NWO crowd . . . you are playing right into their hands . . . Critical Thinking left your house decades ago . . .

        • Agarnier

          Critical thinking never entered your house ever and with your mindless attitude, it never will. The type of scientist you should be listening to are those with an accredited degree in environmental science, have written highly accredited papers on the subject and have made it their life's work. Not those in Scientology or Christian sciences who manufacture pseudo science for the big oil bucks. No scientist working independently who is worth his salt would support oil production as being environmentally friendly. There is room for improvement in all levels of energy production & management and the green technologies have their fair share of draw backs but, the petroleum industry has been in existence the longest, given more tax cuts & federal grants and still pollute & threaten life on earth more than all other energy sources combined. Mayflower in Arkansas is just another example of the ongoing atrocities perpetrated by the lax safety measures of oil producers. The mixture that is added to the bitumen is more toxic and corrosive than the bitumen itself. Oil companies are famous for not taking the extra step to prevent these occurrences and are difficult to get full compensation from for the personal and environmental destruction they cause. As I told you previously, I wouldn't go to Mayflower with your mindless attitude about the blessings of oil.

        • DCW16

          OIL - you better sit down... Here's an interesting read, important and verifiable information: About 6 months ago, the writer was watching a news program on oil and one of the Forbes Bros. was the guest. The host said to Forbes, "I am going to ask you a direct question and I would like a direct answer; how much oil does the U.S. have in the ground?" Forbes did not miss a beat, he said, "more than all the Middle East put together." Please read below.

          The U. S. Geological Service issued a report in April 2008 that only scientists and oil men knew was coming, but man was it big. It was a revised report (hadn't been updated since 1995) on how much oil was in this area of the western 2/3 of North Dakota, western South Dakota , and extreme eastern Montana ...... check THIS out:

          The Bakken is the largest domestic oil discovery since Alaska 's Prudhoe Bay , and has the potential to eliminate all American dependence on foreign oil. The Energy Information Administration (EIA) estimates it at 503 billion barrels. Even if just 10% of the oil is recoverable... at $107 a barrel, we're looking at a resource base worth more than $5..3 trillion.

          "When I first briefed legislators on this, you could practically see their jaws hit the floor. They had no idea.." says Terry Johnson, the Montana Legislature's financial analyst. "

          This sizable find is now the highest-producing onshore oil field found in the past 56 years," reports The Pittsburgh Post Gazette. It's a formation known as the Williston Basin , but is more commonly referred to as the 'Bakken.' It stretches from Northern Montana, through North Dakota and into Canada .. For years, U. S. oil exploration has been considered a dead end. Even the 'Big Oil' companies gave up searching for major oil wells decades ago. However, a recent technological breakthrough has opened up the Bakken's massive reserves.... and we now have access of up to 500 billion barrels. And because this is light, sweet oil, those billions of barrels will cost Americans just $16 PER BARREL!

          That's enough crude to fully fuel the American economy for 2041 years straight. And if THAT didn't throw you on the floor, then this next one should - because it's from 2006!

          U. S. Oil Discovery- Largest Reserve in the World Stansberry Report Online - 4/20/2006

          Hidden 1,000 feet beneath the surface of the Rocky Mountains lies the largest untapped oil reserve in the world. It is more than 2 TRILLION barrels. On August 8, 2005 President Bush mandated its extraction. In three and a half years of high oil prices none has been extracted. With this motherload of oil why are we still fighting over off-shore drilling?

          They reported this stunning news: We have more oil inside our borders, than all the other proven reserves on earth. Here are the official estimates:

          - 8-times as much oil as Saudi Arabia

          - 18-times as much oil as I raq

          - 21-times as much oil as Kuwait

          - 22-times as much oil as I ran

          - 500-times as much oil as Yemen

          - and it's all right here in the Western United States .

          HOW can this BE?

          HOW can we NOT BE extracting this?

          Because the environmentalists and others have blocked all efforts to help America become independent of foreign oil! Again, we are letting a small group of people dictate our lives and our economy.....WHY?

          James Bartis, lead researcher with the study says we've got more oil in this very compact area than the entire Middle East -more than 2 TRILLION barrels untapped. That's more than all the proven oil reserves of crude oil in the world today, reports The Denver Post.

          Don't think 'OPEC' will drop its price - even with this find? Think again! It's all about the competitive marketplace, - it has to. Think OPEC just might be funding the environmentalists?

          Got your attention yet?

          Now, while you're thinking about it, do this:

          Pass this along.

          If you don't take a little time to do this, then you should stifle yourself the next time you complain about gas prices - by doing NOTHING, you forfeit your right to complain.

          Hydraulic Fracturing of Oil & Gas Wells Drilled in Shale. Hydraulic fracturing and horizontal drilling have turned unproductive shales into the largest natural gas fields in the World.

          How Long Has Hydraulic Fracturing Been Used?

          The first use of hydraulic fracturing to stimulate oil and natural gas wells in the United States was in the 1940s. The method successfully increased well production rates and the practice quickly spread. It is now used throughout the world in thousands of wells every year.

          What is Hydraulic Fracturing?

        • Agarnier

          And "April Fool is now gone past so, your the BIGGEST FOOL at last!" Either that or, you've graduated from troll to raving religious lunatic. The links you provided have been redirected. so much for verification. Even your silly religion has a referenced fairytale. The only truth in your statement highlights the massive increase in fracking shale in recent years. The fracking process is even more detrimental to the pollution of the environment than the production of bitumen.
          You need to get out more. You are beginning to believe your own fabricated hype. You are a true Christian. If the truth doesn't fit into your beliefs, fabricate your own truth. The problem with that idea is, thankfully, the rest of the world is not quiet as insane as you and you will have an uphill battle convincing even the fundamentalists of your insanity without proof. Christians are highly delusional, not stupid.
          Why would Adolph Harper beat his empty head about a pipeline through British Columbia if he new about a huge reserve beneath the Rockies? He may be a religious dictator but, even he is not that stupid.

        • DCW16

          Climategate leaker: Our civilization is being killed by lying “science” elitists

          Anonymous hero who exposed the global warming emails tells the world why he did it – and releases a huge final trove of secret conversations

          by Ron Arnold

          “What if climate change appears to be just mainly a multi-decadal natural fluctuation? They’ll kill us probably.”

          This private musing between two climate scientist colleagues first surfaced along with a whole raft of embarrassing material in 2011, when the anonymous Climategate leaker who calls himself “Mr. FOIA” leaked his second set of emails from Britain’s disgraced Climate Research Unit (CRU) at the University of East Anglia. Now, Mr. FOIA has emerged for a third time, sharing with the world not only his entire batch of 220,000 encrypted emails and documents but also, for the first time, his thoughts.

          Mr. FOIA had previously released two batches of 5,000 files each in 2009 and 2011. This enormous third batch went to a network of friends for decoding, sorting and publication.

          The first and second email batches contained conversations among “scientists” who appear to have dishonored a once respectable discipline, documenting that their claims of a “man-made global warming crisis” look exactly like deliberate contrivances for academic career gain, research funding and positions of political power in “the cause.”

          Some big-name players are playing games with people’s lives and livelihoods.

          Biggest Player. The United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) is the scientific panel whose reports contain the work ofGlimategate figures – and are highly politicized and publicized to increase fear of Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW): “imminent catastrophic man-made climate change.” Many horrendously expensive and needless local, state, federal and international policies have flowed from IPCC’s flawed reports.

          Most Powerful Symbol. Professor Michael Mann’s “Hockey Stick Graph” was featured prominently in the 2001 IPCC Third Assessment Report. It alleged that global temperatures were flat for a thousand years before 1900, but then radically increased because of AGW. The chart looks like a hockey stick, a long straight line that bends sharply upward at the end. With recent IPCC admissions that temperatures have not increased for at least the past 16 years, the curve has now plunged downward to become as flat as the rest of the hockey stick, which is where public trust in climate science is headed.

          The Game. “The game is communicating climate change; the rules will help us win it,” says an astounding, horrifying UK government-funded booklet leaked by Mr. FOIA titled “The Rules of the Game: Evidence base for the Climate Change Communications Strategy.” Written by the UK public relations firm Futerra for six UK agencies – including The Carbon Trust – for use by ethics and public relations tone-deaf scientists,

          “The Rules” teaches sophisticated behavior change tactics, including: “Climate change must be ‘front of mind’ before persuasion works” … “Link climate change mitigation to positive desires/aspirations” … “Beware the impacts of cognitive dissonance” and “Use emotions and visuals” (e.g., scare people with the Hockey Stick Graph). It treats the public like gullible idiots who can be frightened and manipulated by seemingly trustworthy scientists to believe in AGW. For a long time, it worked.

          The Team. Phil Jones, head of the CRU; Peter Thorne of the UK Met Office (the national weather service, originally the Meteorological Office) was joined by Kevin Trenberth,climate analysis section head of the U.S. National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR); Tom Wigley, also of NCAR; and the litigious Penn State University Hockey Stick originator, Michael Mann.

          James M. Taylor, senior fellow for environment policy at The Heartland Institute, sums their actions up this way. The team consciously distorted and actively suppressed critical knowledge, then furiously tried to hide their actions by conducting a vicious smear campaign to discredit critics.

          Consciously distorted: NCAR’s Wigley once complained to Mann, “Mike, the Figure you sent is very deceptive … there have been a number of dishonest presentations of model results by individual authors and by IPCC.…”

          Peter Thorne of the UK Met Office warned Phil Jones, head of the CRU: “Observations do not show rising temperatures throughout the tropical troposphere, unless you accept one single study and approach and discount a wealth of others. This is just downright dangerous. We need to communicate the uncertainty and be honest. Phil, hopefully we can find time to discuss these further if necessary.… I also think the science is being manipulated to put a political spin on it, which for all our sakes might not be too clever in the long run.”

          Suppressed critical knowledge: Phil Jones wrote, “I’ve been told that IPCC is above national FOI Acts. One way to cover yourself and all those working on the IPCC 5th Assessment Report would be to delete all e-mails at the end of the process. Any work we have done in the past is done on the back of the research grants we get – and has to be well hidden. I’ve discussed this with the main funder [the U.S. Department of Energy] in the past and they are happy about not releasing the original station data.” The U.S. government was colluding with the hiders, who received tens of millions of dollars over the years.

          Jones wrote to Mann, “Mike, can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith Briffa re AR4 [the IPCC 4th Assessment Report]? Keith will do likewise. … We will be getting Caspar Ammann to do likewise.”

          Tom Crowley, a key member of Mann’s global warming hockey team, showed crass disregard for the lying and hiding: “I am not convinced that the ‘truth’ is always worth reaching, if it is at the cost of damaged personal relationships.” It’s more important to keep the career back-scratching team happy.

          The distortion, spin, suppression and smear campaign went on for years. In fact, the revelations sparked a furious “hide the lies” denial campaign that ironically calls skeptics “deniers.” What the skeptics actually deny is that there has been much honest science involved in the IPCC process; that there is any evidence to support claims that we face an imminent climate crisis; and that humans are primarily responsible for weather and climate variations that have always been controlled by hundreds of complex, inter-related natural forces and processes.

          “Hide the lies” generated lawsuits between climate science “believers” (what kind of real science requires belief?) and skeptics of “dangerous man-made planetary warming” – along with ridiculous conspiracy theories such as “Big Oil hired evil hackers in a plot to discredit angelic climate scientists.”

          Mr. FOIA denies these absurd allegations in his 3.0 message. “I took what I deemed the most defensible course of action, and would do it again,” he said. “That’s right; no conspiracy, no paid hackers, no Big Oil. The Republicans didn’t plot this. USA politics is alien to me, neither am I from the UK. There is life outside the Anglo-American sphere.”

          “The first glimpses I got behind the scenes did little to garner my trust in the state of climate science – on the contrary,” Mr. FOIA continued. “I found myself in front of a choice that just might have a global impact.” Reveal what he had discovered, or keep it to himself and let the lies continue?

          Didn’t he fear discovery? “When I had to balance the interests of my own safety, the privacy and career of a few scientists, and the well-being of billions of people living in the coming several decades … millions and billions already struggling with malnutrition, sickness, violence, illiteracy, etc. … the first two weren’t the decisive concern.”

          Why did he do it? His answer was both angry and anguished: “Climate science has already directed where humanity puts its capability, innovation, mental and material ‘might’ …. The price of ‘climate protection’ with its cumulative and collateral effects is bound to destroy and debilitate in great numbers, for decades and generations,” he wrote. “We can’t pour trillions in this massive hole-digging-and-filling-up endeavor and pretend it’s not [taking] away from something and someone else.”

          That’s the most important statement so far in the decades-old climate debate: You’re forcing us backward into poverty and ignorance – for nothing, except to further your careers, funding and power.

          Less than a week later, London’s Mail on Sunday newspaper ran an outraged feature based on the British Meteorological Office’s recent admission that global surface temperatures haven’t risen in more than 15 years. Citing a chart of predicted and actual temperatures, the Mail noted: “Official predictions of global climate warming have been catastrophically flawed. The graph on this page blows apart the ‘scientific basis’ for Britain reshaping its entire economy and spending billions in taxes and subsidies in order to cut emissions of greenhouse gases. The chart shows in incontrovertible detail how the speed of global warming has been massively overestimated. Yet those forecasts have had a ruinous impact on the bills we pay, from heating to car fuel to huge sums paid by councils to reduce carbon emissions. The eco-debate was, in effect, hijacked by false data.”

          Is it improper to label the people responsible for this costly, miserable catastrophe as “eco-thugs”? And should we worry that the latest no-real-energy “energy security” proposal from the White House is telling us that President Obama has become America’s “Eco-thug in Chief,” who will continue to peddle fraudulent science and nearly worthless renewable energy to further his agenda? It’s worth pondering.

          A set of pro forma “investigations” claim to have exonerated PSU’s Mann. The internal PSU inquiry – with no impartial truth-seekers involved – was not going to harm their grant-getting cash cow Mann; instead, it whitewashed the evidence to ensure the preferred conclusion. Professional science groups that relied upon public funding for their financial survival fell in line behind a huge Tom Sawyer campaign of “exoneration.” There was no exoneration.

          Summaries presented in court filings for the case of American Tradition Institute v. University of Virginia and Michael Mann – which demands release of Michael Mann’s emails – say, “Mann has never been exonerated…. Exoneration requires investigation; investigation requires pursuit aimed at discovering material facts. Mann’s employer since 2005, Penn State University, has conducted no such thing. Neither has the University of Virginia.”

          The same conclusion applies to the UK’s Muir Russell and Oxburgh inquiries, which didn’t even mention Mann, because they were “investigating” only employees of the CRU.

          I asked Christopher C. Horner, senior fellow at the Competitive Enterprise Institute and attorney in the ATI v. UVa/Mann lawsuit for his take on the leaker’s message. He told me, “Whatever prompted ‘Mr. FOIA,’ I take it as a statement that, so far, the courts have failed us, as have our political institutions – and he has concluded that those in the public who have resisted the climate industry agenda should now have a chance to review these taxpayer-financed records, which are the subject of a remarkable campaign to subvert transparency laws.”

          We ourselves can’t avoid blame for the science disaster uncovered by Mr. FOIA. As Peter Foster of London’s Financial Times noted, we didn’t heed President Dwight Eisenhower’s warning. “Most people are aware of Ike’s warning in 1961 about the military-industrial complex,” Foster wrote. Our fatal error was to ignore what he said next: “In holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite.” [emphasis added]

          Americans won’t take captivity. It’s time to demote our climate masters to our humble servants. We won’t kill them. But we should sentence them to prison – or Siberia, where they’ll wish the climate was warming.

          Examiner columnist Ron Arnold is executive VP of the Center for the Defense of Free Enterprise. Portions of this article originally appeared in theWashington Examiner and are used by permission.

        • Agarnier

          These "Big Daddy Oil Bucks" naysayers of science must be under 16 years of age. Otherwise, they simply had to stick their nose out their window to experience the gradual warming effects on the environment over the past 20 years. Especially if they lived at the earths poles. You don't need much science to prove the ravages of war when your standing in a massive field of dead bodies. Common sense does not seem to afflict the greed behind ulterior motives and opinions. Money will not save the future of humanity. Only proven science and common sense can obtain that goal. Religions, along with oil & weapons industries exhibit only greed and graft and little common sense. Combine them with money and you have the four horsemen of your mindless apocalypse.

        • Agarnier

          Here's a real education for lying, delusional naysayers.
          Educate yourself fool, your no scientist.

        • Agarnier

          If your down in Mayflower, Arkansas any time soon, you may want to keep your opinions to yourself or, you may well leave feet first.

        • DCW16

          I suspect you have "Few" friends . . . very few folks in your area think like you ! ! !

          How did the Oil Sands oil get to Arkansas . . . as there is no pipeline yet?

          A few thousand barrels of oil . . . is not a lot . . . like most incidents in North America usually "Human Caused" . . .

          The IPCC violated 72 basic scientific principles. They hide data, they alter data, they “review” each others papers and call it “peered reviewed”, the intimidate and call names rather than debate, they use data samples from questionable sources, they ignore data that doesn’t support their cult theories, when their hypothesizes and timelines fall flat, they take it as evidence that their hypothesizes are correct. They’re not scientists, they’re political fascists, looking to justify the control of the State by any means necessary. Remember, everything to them is evidence of global warming and in need of greater government control:
          Summer hot? Global Warming
          Winter cold? Global Warming
          Too many storms? Global Warming
          Too few storms? Global Warming
          Earthquakes? Global Warming
          Volcanoes? Global Warming
          Cancer? Global Warming
          Too wet? Global Warming
          Too dry? Global Warming
          Racism? Global Warming
          Sexism? Global Warming
          Autism? Global Warming
          Athlete’s Foot? Global Warming… etc etc

        • Agarnier

          As usual, your suspicions are way off the mark. My friends don't always agree with my opinions but, they are able to spot a corporate troll like you from outer space. Your rants come across as a man obsessed with demons. You may want to reign it in before you start drinking the stuff to prove your insane claims. Oh, and stay away from the Kool-aid, its gasoline.

        • DCW16

          I supply you with FACTS . . . and you continue to side with your New World Order buddies in the Warming Industry. They have been consistent . . . they lie and have been 100% WRONG for two decades, Maurice and George would be proud of you ! ! !

          Dr. Nils-Axel Mörner . . . is the No. 1 Sea Level Expert on the Planet . . . NO ONE from the Anthropogenic Gorebull Warming crowd will debate him . . . why . . . because HE IS CORRECT and a Real Scientist.

          Ditto for Soon, Lindsen, Lombord and Ball . . .
          As the North East still basks in snow and low temperatures . . . and Europe has suffered another 100 year winter . . . just keep believing the nonsense.

          1000 years ago the Vikings settled in Greenland for 300 years . . . it was much WARMER then than now.
          10,000 years ago there was a Mile of Ice on North Dakota . . . it was much COLDER then than now . . . so why are we concerned?

        • Agarnier
        • DCW16

          "Flat Earth Theory" . . . that was a Leftist Concept. Isiah said thousands of years ago "the earth is a sphere" . . .
          You "Terminal Ignorance" is astounding . . . you dislike fossil fuels, yet EVERYTHING YOU HAVE TODAY is because of Fossil Fuels.
          Without Cheap Energy the USA would look more like Africa today . . . people starving, feudal farming and zero manufacturing. That's what the Enviro-nazi's want . . . along with Global Control Most "Green" groups today are infiltrated with Marxists and Socialists. Are you one of them?
          The CO2 Stupidity is astounding . . . .
          Carbon Dioxide is Plant Food . . . period ! ! ! 97% of CO2 created around the globe is by natural processes, only 3% is created by man.
          The Oil Sands you worry so much about contributes only ONE THOUSANDTH of ONE Percent of Canada's emissions . . . which are only 2% of global emissions.
          While China is well over 21% and building a Coal Fired generating plant every Week. The US is about 20% . . . and getting 60% of its Electrical Energy from Coal.
          Oil is "abiotic" . . . it is not Dinosaures . . . it is created in the core of the earth and is an ongoing process, this is why the "Peak Oil" theories of the 70's were all nonsense.
          You pulling your hair out . . . over a 60 year old pipeline having a failure is laughable. When a train is derailed carrying nuclear waste, or chemicals . . . do we shut down all rail lines? When a transport truck carrying chemicals has a collision and spill on the Interstate . . . do we BAN TRUCKS or SHUT DOWN THE INTERSTATE? Enviro stupidity is magnitude . . . they want to shut oil and gas down . . . but there is no alternative but your stoopid solar panels and windmills . . . which might work at the Cabin . . . but not in New York.
          The only thing worse than being stoopid . . . is being old and stoopid . . .
          How will your children and grandchildren deal with the next 50 years? Without cheap energy their lifestyle will drastically change . . . and not for the better. With the massive Debt being run up by the Clown in the WH . . . will they be better off without cheap energy . . . or will they all live like the folks in a Detroit gheto?

          For 20 years I have asked several of the so-called IPCC Scientists . . . for the Science of Gorebull Warming . . . all I have gotten is "My computer model says" . . . that is pure nonsense . . . Why NO Science you ask? Because the hypothesis of Anthropogenic Gorebull Warming . . . has NEVER been proven . . . there IS NO SCIENCE . . . only "belief" . . . welcome to Al Bore's Church of Gorebull Warming ! ! !

        • Agarnier

          Flat Earth Theory a Leftist concept?? Your an idiot! People knew the earth was round probably before recorded history. All they needed was the shadow of the earth on the surface of the moon to prove it. It was your mindless religious leaders who were burning people at the stake for contradicting the flat earth concept until Magellan decided to prove them wrong. The deep earth oil hypothesis was promoted in Russia years ago and shows some promise under laboratory conditions. Like the flat earth theory, it is still just hypothesis and unlike the flat earth theory, it has the support of scientific discovery.
          The word is spelled "stupid" not "stoopid", stupid and why do you think I am old? Is it because I know so much more than you? You must think your children older than you with such flawed inductive reasoning?!
          There is absolutely nothing wrong with fossil fuels when production does not jeopardize animal life and ecosystems. The only thing wrong with oil production is the greed and stupidity of it's producers and the petrochemical industries. They cut corners for profit and unnecessarily destroy the environment. The greed and wanton waste of the oil and petrochemical industries are legendary around the world. They have idiots like you paid to promote their graft and cover up their atrocities. They suck up government subsidies in the trillions of dollars and use it to bolster profits and pollute the environment. The environment has never been their concern.
          I don't know why you keep referring to Marx. He was a lot smarter and more observant than any fool in the oil industry. Marx theorized that the capitalist system would inevitably impoverish the masses as the world’s wealth became concentrated in the hands of a greedy few, causing economic crises and heightened conflict between the rich and working classes. Welcome to the world of Marx's predictions fool. I know that oil and money are your primary gods and you feign the Jesus bullshit to garner Christian sympathy. But, in either case, your mind is closed to any reality that reveals the truth and destroys your mindless philosophy. But, if there is any chance that you will one day find a brain that is void of religious indoctrination and greed for money, here are a few more links explaining the truth you fear.

        • DCW16

          ""The environment has never been their concern.
          I don't know why you keep referring to Marx. He was a lot smarter and more observant than any fool in the oil industry. Marx theorized that the capitalist system would inevitably impoverish the masses as the world’s wealth became concentrated in the hands of a greedy few, causing economic crises and heightened conflict between the rich and working classes. Welcome to the world of Marx's predictions"

          Your thought processes are amuzing . . .

          Go to an oilfield, gas field, refinery in the USA or for that matter in Canada. Go to the Oil Sands in northern Alberta. What do you see? You see environmentally friendly clean operations. The Cleanest on the Planet.

          Yes there are some places in the world where this is not so . . . I have told you that. China, Africa the ME . . . so . . . logic would dictate that since we need Oil and Gas . . . should we buy from places that are safe and clean or from places like the ME and Africa? Obviously Domestic and Canadian suppliers are the best ! ! !

          Marx . . . Do you know anything about the life of this man? He had a wife, several children, several died young. He never worked, was supported by his friends . . . wrote down his thoughts and fantasies. Engles was one of his followers . . . and they were highly regarded by the likes of Lenin and Mussolini.

          Communism and Fascism were the products of these fools minds. Socialism was the Economic Engine of their regemes. What was the result? They collapsed under their own weight or in Mussolini's case losing a war. But the result of Socialism in the Soviet Union was Shared Poverty, Central Planning and an economic basket case.

          Today we watch the European countries, mostly Socialist, going bankrupt, getting ready to go bankrupt or just struggling along.

          Capitalism caused the collapse in America?

          Where have you been for the last 20 odd years? Government caused the collapse . . . Community Reinvestment Act of 1993. Trillions in worthless mortgages from Banks that were forced to lend to minorities and the down and out, that could not qualify for a mortgage.
          Banks sold the mortgages to the govt . . . Fannie/Freddie . . . who packaged them in Derivatives and fenced them around the world. When the housing bubble burst . . . the chit hit the fan.
          A TRIP DOWN MEMORY LANE . . . For those with "Short" memories . . .
          How The Democrats Caused The Financial Crisis: Starring Bill Clinton's HUD Secretary Andrew Cuomo And Barack Obama; With Special Guest Appearances By Bill Clinton And Jimmy Carter

          O'bammy buddy and supporter Soreass . . . one of the most dangerous loons on the planet . . .

          George Soros participated in a forum on Hayek at the Cato Institute this past week, and the really fascinating part is watching him cross swords with University of Chicago Law Professor Richard Epstein. about 16 min mark.

          Govt interference, picking winners and losers destroys the free market. Look at the "Green" failures of the last few months . . .Fisker Electric Cars has joined them yesterday . . . the common thread is that Government gave them Tax Dollars . . . insane concept.

          But your true colors are starting to emerge . . . you are a leftist, with Grennie tenancies and support Socialist causes . . . all the qualities of the collapsing Euro regemes today. Time to smell the coffee . . . it's on ! ! !

        • Agarnier

          "You see environmentally friendly clean operations. The Cleanest on the Planet." May providence help the planet if they are the cleanest. There has been massive destruction of the environment caused by more than 13 oil spills in the US and Canada in the last five years alone. Trillions of dollars in corporate and government funding have been poured into the subsequent clean up. Some of this major clean up is still ongoing and the extent of its effect on the environment is massive and ongoing. These are government costs that are not included in the trillions of dollars in oil industry subsidies. Their greed and wanton destruction knows no bounds. Strict government regulations and corporate policing is required to curb their greed.
          The financial meltdown was a direct result of poor government and lack of regulations by the FatCat government of the GOP, and the stupidity of George Bush in particular. Obama has promised to quell the greed of industry and funnel some of their record profits back into infrastructure and much needed social programs to insure a decent standard of living for ALL Americans. Adolph Harper, on the other hand, is cutting scientific funding, imposing restrictions on citizen's freedoms and cutting social programs while ramping up subsidies to the oil and weapons industries. Simultaneously, hiding his intent through a series of surreptitious omnibus bills. The industry sycophant is Canada's first dictator.

          Your mindless support of such environmental sabotage for profit reflects your limited religious views, that life on this plant is of little consequence in the wake of capitalistic profits. Industrial greed is unraveling the very fabric of our democratic societies.

        • DCW16

          For a guy that lives on Vancouver Island . . . the home of the only major city on the left coast . . . that still chits in the Pacific Ocean . . . they discharge Raw Sewage, in the 21st Century, into the Pacific. Perhaps you and Canada's Al Bore, green-loon Liz May should work on your own backyard . . . before you start preaching your nonsense to the masses.

          Bet you know World Famous "Komputer Modeller" Andrew Weaver . . . the guy who got all his fraudulent data from Phil Jones at the infamous East Anglia U . . . the guys in England who claimed to "Control the debate, and hide the decline".

          Reality is . . . Climate has ALWAYS CHANGED ! ! !
          Some questions for the "Klimate Alarmists"?
          What would be the "Ideal" Temperature for the Planet?
          How will we achieve this "Ideal" Temperature?
          When did the Climate . . . "Not Change"?
          What effect does the SUN have on the planet . . . something the Komputer Modellers . . . IGNORED ! ! !

        • Agarnier

          The major city on Vancouver island is Victoria. The city of Vancouver is not on Vancouver island, it is on mainland British Columbia. You guessed wrong again! The sun has been studied by scientists longer than the earth and they know the fluctuations of the suns radiation and its effect on earth's temperature as well as volcanic activity and unusual climate activity. The sun does make a minor difference in the earths temperature based on radiation from the sun, earth's rotational speed and distance from the sun. The sun is actually cooling and if taken as the only factor, the earth's surface would be cooling. But, it is the effect of CO2 in the atmosphere of earth that traps heat within our atmosphere causing the greenhouse effect. Most of the problematic CO2 is contributed by humanity and it upsets the delicate balance of the ecosphere.

        • DCW16

          I say . . . "For a guy that lives on Vancouver Island . . . the home of the only major city on the left coast . . . that still chits in the Pacific Ocean "

          And you say . . . " The city of Vancouver is not on Vancouver island, it is on mainland British Columbia."

          Question . . . ARE YOU THAT ILLITERATE? . . . . I never said Vancouver was on Vancouver Island . . . dummy ! An my point is . . . you left-leaning Island hippies chit on your own BEACH . . . but are chirping about the state of the Gulf Coast, which is much cleaner than the water around Victoria. Victoria is a "Major City" is it NOT . . . since it is the Capital of the Province of BC.

          The SUN doesn't warm the earth? Loonie at best . . . the SUN heats Mars that has an atmosphere of almost entirely CO2 . . . the difference in Day and Night temperatures is over 100 degrees F . . . where's the "Greenhouse Effect"?

          Most CO2 on earth is contributed by Volcanoes, oceans, decay and animal farts . . . only 3% of the total is attributable to man. Back in the 80's when Mt Pinatubo in the Phillipines errupted it emmitted more Flurocarbons, CO2 and pollution . . . THAN MAN HAS MADE SINCE THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION.
          And temperatures were LOWER around the globe for Several Years due to the high atmospheric Pollution, not the CO2.

          Dr Willie Soon . . . predicted the lack of Solar Activity today and cooling . . . over 10 years ago . . . he was 100% correct.

          Perhaps he could explain reality to you . . .

          Willie Soon is both an astrophysicist and a geoscientist based in Cambridge, MA.

          Fred Singer

          Dr. Nils-Axel Mörner on SEA LEVELS . . . and the Austrian so-called scientists that wrote the IPCC stuff . . . .

          Bob Carter is a research professor at James Cook University (Queensland). He is a marine geologist and environmental scientist with more than 30 years professional experience.

        • Agarnier

          You definitely have a religious mind. Make up your own truth and convince yourself its true.

          Quoting you above; "For a guy that lives on Vancouver island....the home of the only major city on the left coast..." and "...I never said Vancouver was on Vancouver Island...."
          Pray tell. How do you interpret those statements in your delusional religious vernacular? The only ILLITERACY I have is to the delusional rants of an overpaid religious fanatic.
          The BS links you provided are from another delusional religious group, the Hartland Instite, funded entirely by the petrochemical industry. They are true Religious LIARS one and all. Real scientists discredit these "religion for profit" groups as being dangerously insane. Their insanity and pseudoscience are provided for the right price. "Just like you..TROLL!"
          You are the King of Idiots!

        • DCW16

          You are the one who brought up the City of Vancouver . . . I talked about the major city on Vancouver Island . . . that chits in the Pacific. The home of Enviro-loons that dump RAW SEWAGE in the Ocean. Hypocrites ALL.

          Religeous? One day we will all know the answer eh Old Timer? My bet is . . . you will not like it much.

          There is nothing more clueless than an Al Bore Kool-aide drinking enviro-loon. The country you live in is FAR CLEANER TODAY than at any time in the last 100 years . . . and you are unhappy. That is INSANE ! ! !

          You keep posting crazy web sites that "believe" that the planet is doomed . . . over 20 years ago crazy Al and dopy Hansen told us . . . the end was near . . . oceans will rise, the poles will melt, life as we know it will cease. Our Computer Models have spoken. And you believed these crazies.

          Here we are today . . . polar regions "Normal" . . . ocean levels "Normal" . . . CO2 has risen slightly, but temperature has slightly dropped for 16 years now.

          Time to smell the coffee Ole Fool . . .

          See the story today about Air Travel getting bumpy because of CO2? More nonsense, how much CO2 do you think is present at 30,000 or 40,000 feet? Not very much, that is why there are no trees on mountain tops. But the scientists "believe" . . . the Mother Earth Worshipping Ghia movement is on the case . . .

          Here are some more of your fellow travellers . . . .

          A Spirituality of Nature, Earth, Gaia

          Is Nature the focus of your deepest spiritual feelings? Are you looking for a spirituality or religion that focuses on Nature, on saving the Earth, on preserving its habitats and species?

          World Pantheism is probably the most clearly earth-focussed of spiritual/religious organizations. Nature is the very heart of our spirituality, which is close to Deep Ecology, Gaia theory, Nature religion, or basic and direct Nature Worship. The simplest way to sum it up is in Michael Gorbachev's phrase "Nature is my god."

          This beautiful Planet Earth is our mother and our home. This sacred Earth is our ark and all the plants and animals that live in it are our fellow passengers. That ark is threatened now, as never before in history, by human actions and inactions.

          World Pantheism focuses on this Earth rather than an imaginary realm, on this life rather than an uncertain afterlife. We recognize that our planet, the habitat of all living things, is a delicate network of interacting elements in which rocks, waters, climate and life all shape each other. This interaction has been described using the metaphor of the Greek Earth goddess, Gaia. The Gaia theory states that life and the planet co-evolve, and that life to some extent works to make the planet stable enough for life to thrive.

          The originator of the Gaia theory, Sir James Lovelock, is one of the WPM's honorary advisors, as is renowned Canadian environmentalist Dr David Suzuki. Our president and founder, Dr Paul Harrison, holds a United Nations Environment Programme Global 500 award for his many books on the environment, and has edited UNEP's annual report on the world environment for the past four years.

          Lovelock has since changed his mind on things . . . but you know that.

          Did you know Suzuki is a Devout Buddhist?

        • Agarnier

          Everything shits in the ocean fool. Runoff from land surface eventually ends up in the ocean. Raw sewerage is not a pollution problem, in fact it serves to sustain a lage portion of marine life. It is the toxic waste of chemicals that create havoc in the oceans as well as the atmosphere.
          CO2 creates blooms of algae that effectively depletes the oxygen in water during it's decay process, effectively creating dead zones in the ocean that will not support many fish species. CO2 also blocks and absorbs infrared heat waves from escaping back into space.
          You are a true idiot who refuses to educate himself to real science and fills his empty head with religious Scientology and the ignorance of psudoscience to support his pay check from oil and petrochemical industries. All of your reference links are sourced from religious BS and the oil industry, much like the fake scientists who support your flawed theories. I grow tired of trying to educate a lost trolling fool. Try using a little common sense and experience a true shift in perception toward enlightenment. Buddha would be proud.
          Buddahism is a philosophy for life, much like Karate and the Salvation Army, rather than a true religion.

        • DCW16

          "Everything shits in the ocean fool. "

          So . . . you are defending the ONLY city, Victoria, on the West Coast that dumps RAW SEWAGE in the Pacific. You sir . . . are certifiable ! !

          "CO2 creates blooms of algae that effectively depletes the oxygen"

          For Millions of years as oceans WARM the give up CO2 . . . as oceans COOL they absorb CO2 . . . CO2 levels in the ocean have been much HIGHER than today in the past and Much LOWER than today in the past. FACT ! ! !

          "Educate Myself" . . . one of us is not BRIGHT . . . and I suspect it is YOU ! ! !
          Earth Worshipping Enviro-loon . . .

          Buddahism . . . My Buddhist friends would disagree with you. It is a panthiestic religion that believes that your relatives become trees, animals and insects . . . ask your bud David Suzukki . . . its the BASIS of his ENTIRE PHILOSOPHY.

          Budda said back in the day "I am serching for Truth" ! ! ! As far as we know . . . he is still looking.

          Karate . . . spend many years in the practice of okinawa goju ryu . . . there is a religious component to Karate . . . as there is in Yoga as well.

          Salvation Army . . . is a Christian Bible Believing Organization . . . dedicated to helping the poor and disadvantaged.

          Tell me Ag . . . how many "athiests and Earth Worshippers" . . . have gone out to help the poor?

          As the Gorebull Warming CO2 nonsense is coming to an End . . .

          Global Warming: How It All Began

          Note the quotes in the following story from your buddy Maurice Strong, Gorbechev and Chirac . . . this is ALL about Globalism and Control . . . these folks and other should all be in JAIL . . . but instead are revered by the Enviro-nazi's.

          President Obama has put salvation from dreaded climate catastrophes on his action agenda hot list. During his inaugural address he said: “We will respond to the threat of climate change, knowing that the failure to do so would betray our children and future generations.” He went on to shame anyone who disagrees with this assessment, saying, “Some may still deny the overwhelming judgment of science, but none can avoid the devastating impact of raging fires and crippling drought and powerful storms.”

          This sort of scary presidential prognostication isn’t new. He previously emphasized at the Democratic National Convention that global warming was “not a hoax”, referred to recent droughts and floods as “a threat to our children’s future”, and pledged to make the climate a second-term priority.As much as I hate to nit-pick his doomsday scenarios, it might be appropriate to correct a few general misconceptions before getting back to that “overwhelming judgment of science” stuff.

          Regarding wildfires, for example, their numbers since 1950 have decreased globally by 15%. According to the National Academy of Sciences, they will likely continue to decline until around midcentury.

          As for those droughts, a recent study published in the letter of the journal Nature indicates that globally, “…there has been little change in drought over the past 60 years.” And as the U.N. Climate panel concluded last year: “Some regions of the world have experienced more intense and longer droughts, in particular in southern Europe and West Africa, but in some regions droughts have become less frequent, less intense, or shorter, for example, in central North America and northwestern Australia.”Also, by the way, global hurricane activity, measured in total energy (Accumulated Cyclone Energy), is actually at a low not encountered since the 1970s. In fact, the U.S. is currently experiencing the longest absence of severe landfall hurricanes in over a century. Wilma, the last Category 3 or stronger storm, occurred more than seven years ago.

          But supposing these recent circumstances were different…because after all, climate really does change. Even virtually all of those who the president claims “deny” that “overwhelming science” recognize this. (If climate didn’t change, would we even need a word for it?)

          The larger issue has to do with just how many of those who stoke the global warming alarm fires have real confidence in that “science”. So let’s briefly review just a few candid comments that some of them have offered on this topic. These are but a very small sampling of my favorites.How Climate Alarmism Advances International Political Agendas:

          The term “climate” is typically associated with annual world-wide average temperature records measured over at least three decades. Yet global warming observed less than two decades after many scientists had predicted a global cooling crisis prompted the United Nations to organize an Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), and to convene a continuing series of international conferences purportedly aimed at preventing an impending catastrophe. Virtually from the beginning, they had already attributed the “crisis” to human fossil-fuel carbon emissions.A remark from Maurice Strong, who organized the first U.N. Earth Climate Summit (1992) in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil revealed the real goal: “We may get to the point where the only way of saving the world will be for industrialized civilization to collapse.”

          Former U.S. Senator Timothy Wirth (D-CO), then representing the Clinton-Gore administration as U.S undersecretary of state for global issues, addressing the same Rio Climate Summit audience, agreed: “We have got to ride the global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic policy and environmental policy.” (Wirth now heads the U.N. Foundation which lobbies for hundreds of billions of U.S. taxpayer dollars to help underdeveloped countries fight climate change.)

          Also speaking at the Rio conference, Deputy Assistant of State Richard Benedick, who then headed the policy divisions of the U.S. State Department said: “A global warming treaty [Kyoto] must be implemented even if there is no scientific evidence to back the [enhanced] greenhouse effect.”
          In 1988, former Canadian Minister of the Environment, told editors and reporters of the Calgary Herald: “No matter if the science of global warming is all phony…climate change [provides] the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world.”

          In 1996, former Soviet Union President Mikhail Gorbachev emphasized the importance of using climate alarmism to advance socialist Marxist objectives: “The threat of environmental crisis will be the international disaster key to unlock the New World Order.”

          Speaking at the 2000 U.N. Conference on Climate Change in the Hague, former President Jacques Chirac of France explained why the IPCC’s climate initiative supported a key Western European Kyoto Protocol objective: “For the first time, humanity is instituting a genuine instrument of global governance, one that should find a place within the World Environmental Organization which France and the European Union would like to see established.”

        • Agarnier


          "Everything shits in the ocean fool. "
          So . . . you are defending the ONLY city, Victoria, on the West Coast that dumps RAW SEWAGE in the Pacific. You sir . . . are certifiable ! !

          { I do agree that raw sewerage and chemicals should be filtered before entering world waterways to produce cleaner biofuels and to prevent excessive CO2 levels. But, the most damaging runoff stems from plant and chemical nutrients that promote the growth of phytoplankton. I defend true science against self serving idiots like you and major industry. Anyone else who is rewarded from truth is strictly a collateral benefit.}

          "CO2 creates blooms of algae that effectively depletes the oxygen"
          For Millions of years as oceans WARM the give up CO2 . . . as oceans COOL they absorb CO2 . . . CO2 levels in the ocean have been much HIGHER than today in the past and Much LOWER than today in the past. FACT ! ! !

          { I presented empirical evidence of global warming in my last post. You should have read it. There are no FACTS to support your lie of CO2 levels in the oceans or atmosphere. Where's the meat of you lying religious arguments?}

          "Educate Myself" . . . one of us is not BRIGHT . . . and I suspect it is YOU ! ! !

          { For a self described BRIGHT person you don't represent intelligence well. The history of scientific ignorance exhibited by religion is legendary around the world. They fabricate mindless lies to hide their debauchery and stupidity.
          Please read:


          Earth Worshipping Enviro-loon . . .
          Buddahism . . . My Buddhist friends would disagree with you. It is a panthiestic religion that believes that your relatives become trees, animals and insects . . . ask your bud David Suzukki . . . its the BASIS of his ENTIRE PHILOSOPHY.

          { Buddhism is a PHILOSOPHY of life that seeks truth in nature without the false intrusion of mindless deities and emotional rhetoric.
          Please read:

          Budda said back in the day "I am serching for Truth" ! ! ! As far as we know . . . he is still looking.

          {Of course he would be still looking if he were alive. Only your idiot deity has all the wrong answers to everything in nature. Full enlightenment can only be obtained through the complete understanding of nature's secrets. We have a long way to go before we obtain that knowledge through the rigours of science.}

          Karate . . . spend many years in the practice of okinawa goju ryu . . . there is a religious component to Karate . . . as there is in Yoga as well.

          {Karate is believed to have been originated by Buddhists in China long before it arrived in Japan. It incorporates training of the mind and the body to control ones life and environment. Knowledge is power. The lies of pseudoscience is promoted by corruption and ignorance.}

          Salvation Army . . . is a Christian Bible Believing Organization . . . dedicated to helping the poor and disadvantaged.

          {The Salvation Army is considered a Christian
          religion like Lutheran or Catholic not just an organization like the Boy Scouts. They do more for humanity than any other Christian religion. Similar to Buddhists, their belief in humanity and nature overcome their greed. They know we all share the same fate and cooperate to make the world a better place for human survival. Most religions and their impossible promise of eternal life has served to accomplish the opposite effect. They are willing to rape and destroy the earth and humanity in the name of personal greed and their gods for immediate and impossible rewards.}

          Tell me Ag . . . how many "athiests and Earth Worshippers" . . . have gone out to help the poor?

          {In order to effect change you may want to pose that question to the richest religion in history. Vatican Inc. is still raking in record graft while millions of fellow humans starve in abstract poverty. The same can be said of the oil companies you defend.}

          As the Gorebull Warming CO2 nonsense is coming to an End . . .
          Global Warming: How It All Began

          Note the quotes in the following story from your buddy Maurice Strong, Gorbechev and Chirac . . . this is ALL about Globalism and Control . . . these folks and other should all be in JAIL . . . but instead are revered by the Enviro-nazi's.

          President Obama hasu put salvation from dreaded climate catastrophes on his action agenda hot list. During his inaugural address he said: “We will respond to the threat of climate change, knowing that the failure to do so would betray our children and future generations.” He went on to shame anyone who disagrees with this assessment, saying, “Some may still deny the overwhelming judgment of science, but none can avoid the devastating impact of raging fires and crippling drought and powerful storms.”
          This sort of scary presidential prognostication isn’t new. He previously emphasized at the Democratic National Convention that global warming was “not a hoax”, referred to recent droughts and floods as “a threat to our children’s future”, and pledged to make the climate a second-term priority.As much as I hate to nit-pick his doomsday scenarios, it might be appropriate to correct a few general misconceptions before getting back to that “overwhelming judgment of science” stuff.
          Regarding wildfires, for example, their numbers since 1950 have decreased globally by 15%. According to the National Academy of Sciences, they will likely continue to decline until around midcentury.
          As for those droughts, a recent study published in the letter of the journal Nature indicates that globally, “…there has been little change in drought over the past 60 years.” And as the U.N. Climate panel concluded last year: “Some regions of the world have experienced more intense and longer droughts, in particular in southern Europe and West Africa, but in some regions droughts have become less frequent, less intense, or shorter, for example, in central North America and northwestern Australia.”Also, by the way, global hurricane activity, measured in total energy (Accumulated Cyclone Energy), is actually at a low not encountered since the 1970s. In fact, the U.S. is currently experiencing the longest absence of severe landfall hurricanes in over a century. Wilma, the last Category 3 or stronger storm, occurred more than seven years ago.
          But supposing these recent circumstances were different…because after all, climate really does change. Even virtually all of those who the president claims “deny” that “overwhelming science” recognize this. (If climate didn’t change, would we even need a word for it?)
          The larger issue has to do with just how many of those who stoke the global warming alarm fires have real confidence in that “science”. So let’s briefly review just a few candid comments that some of them have offered on this topic. These are but a very small sampling of my favorites.How Climate Alarmism Advances International Political Agendas:
          The term “climate” is typically associated with annual world-wide average temperature records measured over at least three decades. Yet global warming observed less than two decades after many scientists had predicted a global cooling crisis prompted the United Nations to organize an Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), and to convene a continuing series of international conferences purportedly aimed at preventing an impending catastrophe. Virtually from the beginning, they had already attributed the “crisis” to human fossil-fuel carbon emissions.A remark from Maurice Strong, who organized the first U.N. Earth Climate Summit (1992) in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil revealed the real goal: “We may get to the point where the only way of saving the world will be fo r industrialized civilization to collapse.”
          Former U.S. Senator Timothy Wirth (D-CO), then representing the Clinton-Gore administration as U.S undersecretary of state for global issues, addressing the same Rio Climate Summit audience, agreed: “We have got to ride the global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic policy and environmental policy.” (Wirth now heads the U.N. Foundation which lobbies for hundreds of billions of U.S. taxpayer dollars to help underdeveloped countries fight climate change.)
          Also speaking at the Rio conference, Deputy Assistant of State Richard Benedick, who then headed the policy divisions of the U.S. State Department said: “A global warming treaty [Kyoto] must be implemented even if there is no scientific evidence to back the [enhanced] greenhouse effect.”
          In 1988, former Canadian Minister of the Environment, told editors and reporters of the Calgary Herald: “No matter if the science of global warming is all phony…climate change [provides] the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world.”
          In 1996, former Soviet Union President Mikhail Gorbachev emphasized the importance of using climate alarmism to advance socialist Marxist objectives: “The threat of environmental crisis will be the international disaster key to unlock the New World Order.”
          Speaking at the 2000 U.N. Conference on Climate Change in the Hague, former President Jacques Chirac of France explained why the IPCC’s climate initiative supported a key Western European Kyoto Protocol objective: “For the first time, humanity is instituting a genuine instrument of global governance, one that should find a place within the World Environmental Organization which France and the European Union would like to see established.”

          {Your preceding rhetorical rant only serves to prove my point. "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." Even without the overwhelming empirical evidence of well documented man made global pollution, it is always better to err on the side of caution. Societies, monetary systems, religions and political regimes come and go. The only consequence of note is the survival of humanity.
          Your religious motto should be: "Vini, Vidi, Vegi....I Came, I Saw, I Vegetated."}

        • DCW16

          Your New World Order friends instituted the entire Climate Scare . . . the FOURTH in the last 100 years . . . You being a rudderless leftist-loon who believes everything these folks hand you without question . . . are obviously "Fooled Again" . . . What's worse than being stooopid . . . is being old and stoopid . . . spent a lifetime and learned absolutely nothing . . .


          GLOBAL COOLING: 1890s-1930s

          The Times, February 24, 1895
          "Geologists Think the World May Be Frozen Up Again"
          Fears of a "second glacial period" brought on by increases in northern glaciers and the severity of Scandinavia's climate.

          New York Times, October 7, 1912
          "Prof. Schmidt Warns Us of an Encroaching Ice Age"

          Los Angeles Times, June 28, 1923
          "The possibility of another Ice Age already having started ... is admitted by men of first rank in the scientific world, men specially qualified to speak."

          Chicago Tribune, August 9, 1923
          "Scientist says Arctic ice will wipe out Canada."

          Time Magazine, September 10, 1923
          "The discoveries of changes in the sun's heat and the southward advance of glaciers in recent years have given rise to conjectures of the possible advent of a new ice age."

          New York Times, September 18, 1924
          "MacMillan Reports Signs of New Ice Age"

          GLOBAL WARMING: 1930s-1960s

          New York Times, March 27, 1933
          "America in Longest Warm Spell Since 1776; Temperature Line Records a 25-Year Rise"

          Time Magazine, January 2, 1939
          "Gaffers who claim that winters were harder when they were boys are quite right.... weather men have no doubt that the world at least for the time being is growing warmer."

          Time Magazine, 1951
          Noted that permafrost in Russia was receding northward at 100 yards per year.

          New York Times, 1952
          Reported global warming studies citing the "trump card" as melting glaciers. All the great ice sheets stated to be in retreat.

          U.S. News and World Report, January 18, 1954
          "[W]inters are getting milder, summers drier. Glaciers are receding, deserts growing."

          GLOBAL COOLING: 1970s

          Time Magazine, June 24, 1974
          "Climatological Cassandras are becoming increasingly apprehensive, for the weather aberrations they are studying may be the harbinger of another ice age."

          Christian Science Monitor, August 27, 1974
          "Warning: Earth's Climate is Changing Faster than Even Experts Expect"
          Reported that "glaciers have begun to advance"; "growing seasons in England and Scandinavia are getting shorter"; and "the North Atlantic is cooling down about as fast as an ocean can cool".

          Science News, March 1, 1975
          "The cooling since 1940 has been large enough and consistent enough that it will not soon be reversed, and we are unlikely to quickly regain the 'very extraordinary period of warmth' that preceded it."

          Newsweek, April 28, 1975
          "The Cooling World"
          "There are ominous signs that the Earth’s weather patterns have begun to change dramatically and that these changes may portend a drastic decline in food production – with serious political implications for just about every nation on Earth. The drop in food output could begin quite soon, perhaps only 10 years from now."

          International Wildlife, July-August, 1975
          "But the sense of the discoveries is that there is no reason why the ice age should not start in earnest in our lifetime."

          New York Times, May 21, 1975
          "Scientists Ponder Why World's Climate is Changing; A Major Cooling Widely Considered to Be Inevitable"

          GLOBAL WARMING: 1990s-?

          Earth in the Balance, Al Gore, 1992
          "About 10 million residents of Bangladesh will lose their homes and means of sustenance because of the rising sea level due to global warming, in the next few decades."

          Time Magazine, April 19, 2001
          "[S]cientists no longer doubt that global warming is happening, and almost nobody questions the fact that humans are at least partly responsible."

          New York Times, December 27, 2005
          "Past Hot Times Hold Few Reasons to Relax About New Warming"

          The Daily Telegraph, February 2, 2006
          "Billions will die, says Lovelock, who tells us that he is not usually a gloomy type. Human civilization will be reduced to a 'broken rabble ruled by brutal warlords,' and the plague-ridden remainder of the species will flee the cracked and broken earth to the Arctic, the last temperate spot where a few breeding couples will survive."

          ?????: 2020s?

          RIA Novisty(Russian News & Information Agency), February 8, 2007
          "Instead of professed global warming, the Earth will be facing a slow decrease in temperatures in 2012-2015. The gradually falling amounts of solar energy, expected to reach their bottom level by 2040, will inevitably lead to a deep freeze around 2055-2060," he said, adding that this period of global freeze will last some 50 years, after which the temperatures will go up again."
          Quoting Habibullo Abdusamatov, head of the space research laboratory at the St. Petersburg-based Pulkovo Observatory. Full article at

          Meteorology and Atmospheric Physics 95, 115-121 (2007)
          "Multi-scale analysis of global temperature changes and trend of a drop in temperature in the next 20 years"
          Lin Zhen-Shan and Sun Xian. The School of Geographic Sciences, Nanjing Normal University, Nanjing, P. R. China
          Full article at

          Spending Trillions of dollars for a "Perceived Problem" . . . is patently insane.

          The economics of the UN IPCC nonsense . . . . explanation using their own numbers . . .

        • Agarnier

          Read and share this article on our Website

          Muzzling scientists is an assault on democracy

          Access to information is a basic foundation of democracy. Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms also gives us "freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication."

          We must protect these rights. As we alter the chemical, physical and biological properties of the biosphere, we face an increasingly uncertain future, and the best information we have to guide us comes from science. That scientists — and even librarians — are speaking out against what appear to be increasing efforts to suppress information shows we have cause for concern. The situation has become so alarming that Canada's Information Commissioner is investigating seven government departments in response to a complaint that they're "muzzling" scientists.

          The submission from the University of Victoria's Environmental Law Centre and Democracy Watch alleges that "the federal government is preventing the media and the Canadian public from speaking to government scientists for news stories — especially when the scientists' research or point of view runs counter to current Government policies on matters such as environmental protection, oil sands development, and climate change" and that this "impoverishes the public debate on issues of significant national concern."

          The complaint and investigation follow numerous similar charges from scientists and organizations such as the Canadian Science Writers' Association and the World Federation of Science Journalists, and publications such as the science journal Nature. Hundreds of scientists marched on Parliament Hill last July to mark 'the death of evidence'.

          The list of actions prompting these grievances is long. It includes shutting the world-renowned Experimental Lakes Area, axing the National Round Table on the Environment and the Economy, eliminating funding for the Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospheric Sciences and prohibiting federal scientists from speaking about research on subjects ranging from ozone to climate change to salmon.

          All of this has been taking place as the federal government guts environmental laws and cuts funding for environmental departments through its omnibus budget bills. It has justified those massive environmental policy changes in part by saying the review process was slow and inefficient, but research by scientists at the University of Toronto, published in the Canadian Journal of Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences, "found no evidence that regulatory review in Canada was inefficient, even when regulators had an ongoing load of over 600 projects for review at any given time."

          The government appears determined to challenge any information, person or organization that could stand in the way of its plans for rapid tar sands expansion and transport and sale of raw resources as quickly as possible to any country with money.

          The results have been astounding. An Environment Canada document leaked to the Climate Action Network states, "Media coverage of climate change science, our most high-profile issue, has been reduced by over 80 per cent."

          In the environmental movement, we've become accustomed to attacks and attempts by government and its proxies to silence us. We've been called everything from 'radicals' to 'un-Canadian' to 'money-launderers' Federal Treasury Board President Tony Clement even blamed the David Suzuki Foundation and me for opposition to the proposed TransCanada west-to-east pipeline, a project we have yet to say a word about! Some of the ongoing media slurs have been even sillier. Are they that threatened by credible scientific research that might stand in the way of their current liquidation policies?

          Canada is a large country with the longest coastline in the world, and is particularly sensitive to climate fluctuations, especially in economic sectors like agriculture, fisheries, forestry and tourism. We aspire to be an "energy superpower". Surely, understanding the effects of climate change should be at the top of our agenda.

          In a truly open and democratic society, ideas, policies and legislation are exposed to scrutiny, debate and criticism. Information is shared freely. Governments support research that makes the country stronger by ensuring its policies are in the best interests of the people. A government that values its citizens more than its industrial backers does not fear information and opposition.

          Countries where governments hold a tight rein on information, shut down or stifle research that runs counter to their priorities, and demonize and attack opponents are never good places to live. We have to make sure Canada doesn't become one.

          By David Suzuki with contributions from David Suzuki Foundation Communications Manager Ian Hanington

        • DCW16

          Suzuki is a miserable little man that has LIVED off the Taxpayers for most of his life.

          He has 3 homes, 6 kids and has never had a real job. Tenure at UBC where he graduated as a Fruit Fly scientist.

          Back in the late 60's the Suz was sitting on 4th Ave telling the world that "People were Like Maggots" . . . his words. Of course that fits with his Buddhist world view.

          A year ago last Christmas . . on his website he had a picture of Santa and his Sleigh . . . and was telling the kids to send him money . . . Santa was sinking in the Arctic and must be saved.

          Me . . . being not clueless as most in the enviro-movement . . . checked the weather at the North Pole that day. Weather Report as follows: 50 degress Below Zero and the Ice was over 30 feet thick.

          Suzuki's group is a Political Group . . . they campaign for politicians and are continually making political statements . . . all while enjoying "Charitable Tax Status" . . . he is a "Dispicable" little man.

          When questioned about some of his "Propaganda" . . . he has walked out of Radio Stations mid interview . . . he is a "Legend" in his own mind. Like the CBC he left the "Mainstream" decades ago.

          Demonize opponents? Was it not the Suz that called the folks that didn't agree with him "Holocaust Deniers"? Did he not say "they should be locked up"?

          Is Suzuki the only one doing this stuff . . . not a chance. The unhinged in the Enviro movement use this method exclusively . . . they rarely debate the issues and like most leftist loons hurl insults.

          But in the court of Public Opinion . . . the Gorebull Warming Mongers are losing the battle . . . ALL their dire predictions were wrong . . . so-called scientists lied like sidewalks . . . the folks are catching on. What need to happen now . . . is for governments to stop FUNDING these Alarmists and Nutty Professors. In the US alone over 5 Billion dollars has been given to these frauds since the late 90's.

          As I pointed out to you . . . this SCAM has been presented to us FOUR TIMES IN THE LAST 100 YEARS . . . . are the folks so dumb today that they will buy into it?

          The schools and Universities are turning out abject morons compared to decades ago when students learned to actually THINK . . .

          Neither Suzuki or Hanington would show up for a debate with REAL Scientists . . . you know that and so do I . . . It is a "Political" organization doing Politics as usual . . .

        • Agarnier

          What does the DCW stand for in your moniker, is it Dumb Christian Wanker?? If you had any intelligence at all you would weigh your words wisely when demeaning your betters. Suzuki is a world renowned environmentalist respected by the most emenient scientists in the world. Beyond that he and many other scientists who did work for the government have no axe to grind with industry except for their concern for the future of humanity. Adolph Harper is the only Canadian dictator who ever muted scientists to cover up glaring problems with industrial emissions. But then Harper is just another Republican who has been bought and paid for by the oil and weapons industries. He is a lying pernicious prick like you who does not want to jeopardize his graft in doing the right thing to protect Canadian citizens and all citizens of the world effected by industrial pollution. These bastards are worse than the tobacco companies who spend billions on psudoscience to protect their profits. I suppose the next thing your going to tell me is that smoking is good for your health?!
          I'm done with you FOOL. It isn't worth the effort of continuing a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. I have made the case for the science and empirical evidence of global warming on this thread. The science is there for anyone of intelligence to make the right choice between mindless greed and our children's future. I truly hope your son is not the greedy idiot you are but, we all know that the acorn doesn't fall far from the three. Have a good life. If you get your way, your grandchildren will not. Great legacy fool.

        • DCW16

          When YOU are LOSING the Debate . . . name-call, insult . . . dither and wriggle . . .

          Harper is doing a GOOD JOB in tough times. Canada is among the top economies in the G8 . . . . compared to the Serial liar and big spender O'bammy who is driving the US into the ditch.

          Those that didn't do a good job . . . were the ex-employees of "Power Corporation" of Montreal. Starting with the Marxist PE Trudeau, His illigitimate son Mulrooney, the global joke Chretien and of course the incredible Off-shore Paul Martin. All worked for "Power Corp" . . . If these guys had all been Southern Baptists . . . the lame-stream media would have gone nuts.

          Power corp is also where you buddy Stong hung out . . . Maurice Strong, who organized the first U.N. Earth Climate Summit (1992) in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil revealed the real goal: “We may get to the point where the only way of saving the world will be for industrialized civilization to collapse.” You obviously agree with this Globalist, One Worlder Lunatic . . .

          YOUR STATEMENT . . . . "Scientists created a mathematical model based on man made CO2 and other sources of emissions over 50 years ago and were criticized for their ardent predictions. Their critics have all fallen by the wayside and the science of 50 years ago was underestimated. Global warming has been advancing even more rapidly than they anticipated using the data available at that time." . . . is just krazy . . . that is complete fantasy.

          You "worship" at AL Bore's Church of Gorebull Warming . . . . .

          I provide Real Scientists . . .


          Dr Moriner . . . expert on Sea Levels . . . You quote Suzuki . . . bug scientist

          Prof Litzen of MIT Earth Sciences . . . you . . . Hansen and his band of loons . . . .
          Litzen actually debated Hansen's gang in NY a couple of years ago . . . shredded them . . . and over 65% of the crowd agreed.

          Bob Carter is a research professor at James Cook University . . . Paleo Climatologist . . . . YOU . . . . Prof Weaver, computer modeller with data from East Anglia . . . 100% wrong for 2 decades.

          Here's the REALITY Agi . . . the Gorebull Warming Movement was about one thing and one thing only . . . . WEALTH TRANSFER, from you and me to the Big Global Banks and the third world. Nothing More . . .Anyone who "Believes" CO2 . . . . A RARE, BENIGN, ODORLESS, COLORLESS, HEAVY GAS . . . that enables plants to grow and feed the planet is dangerous . . . is smokin crack ! ! !

          George Soreass would be proud of you . . . you have bought into his entire program . . . next you will be learning "Esperanto" . . . the global language invented by his father . . . LOL

          “modern liberalism”.. an ideology . . .

          “… which tries to keep its citizens in ‘perpetual childhood’: it will seek to preserve their happiness, but it chooses to be the sole agent and only arbiter of that happiness. Society will develop a new type of servitude which covers the surface of society with a network of small complicated rules, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate … it does not tyrannise but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to be nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which government is the shepherd.” – de Tocqueville

          Socialism was designed by Theosophists [satanists]. Marx himself stated: “I want to dethrone God and destroy capitalism.” Note what he wanted to do FIRST. Socialism replaces faith with the State. Many communists know this. Saul Alinsky dedicated his book, Rules for Radicals, to Lucifer. Hitler was an occultist [Thule society among others]. The truth behind bloodshed and the wars of mankind has a deeper, darker, occultic root.

        • DCW16

          The simple & obvious facts that prove AGW is a hoax do not require any specific education to understand.

          1: CO2 is NOT carbon. If it contains 1 carbon atom and 2 oxygen atoms, wouldn't it make more sense to call it oxygen, as the "O" in CO2 is obviously the dominant element. You scam artists are trying to convince the gullible public that CO2 is the same as coal dust, the stuff seen on the faces in all the photos of old time coal miners. That fine black powder is called graphite. It is not CO2.

          2: Calling CO2 carbon is like calling H20 hydrogen.

          3: Man made CO2 exists in such small quantities in our atmosphere, that saying it is responsible for ANY statistically significant effect on our climate is obviously false. Man made CO2 accounts for only 4% of total CO2, which, at 390ppm (parts per million) means that we're talking about 16ppm, or one part in every 62,500. And you clowns are claiming that such an infinitesimal amount of a clear, odorless & tasteless gas is the primary determining factor in earth's temperatures? See that big bright yellow thing up in the sky?

          IT'S THE SUN, STUPID!

        • Agarnier

          I normally try to avoid people with mental illness but, you misconstrue even the basic rudiments of science.
          Carbon dioxide, or “C-O-2”, is naturally found in the form of a colorless, odorless gas on Earth. It is made of three atoms – one carbon atom, and two oxygen atoms. The molecule is held together by covalent bonds, which means electrons are shared between the atoms.

          CO2 makes up about four percent of our atmosphere, and it freezes at about minus one hundred ten degrees Fahrenheit. Frozen carbon dioxide is commonly called dry ice. Because it takes such a high pressure to turn carbon dioxide into liquid, when dry ice warms up, it turns directly from a solid to a gas in a process known as sublimation.

          Carbon dioxide is a rich source of the element carbon, the most important “building block” for life on earth. Green plants use carbon dioxide during photosynthesis. They turn the carbon into the sugar, glucose, during a process called “fixation.” Animals are then able to use this glucose for energy.

          Burning fossil fuels like coal, oil, and natural gas release carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. Over a long period of time, using these fuels has increased the percentage of carbon dioxide in the earth’s atmosphere. This higher concentration causes carbon dioxide to act as a “greenhouse gas.” Greenhouse gases act like glass in a greenhouse by trapping heat below the atmosphere. The diameter of a CO2 molecule is equivalent to the wavelength of infrared waves effectively blocking or absorbing infrared heat from escaping into space. Energy from the sun consists of much shorter wavelengths that are not absorbed by CO2 molecules. Scientists think greenhouse gases contribute to global warming.

          Carbon dioxide is very useful to humans. It is used to extinguish fires, and it makes the bubbles in soda and other carbonated drinks. Carbon dioxide from yeast and baking soda makes baked goods rise and CO2 even makes the holes in Swiss cheese! The right balance of carbon dioxide is imperative to our survival.

        • DCW16

          Just watched this video . . . McKibben vs Epstein . . .

          Interesting . . . but McKibben quotes all the standard GW retoric.

          Oceans rising, Acidification, ice caps melting, temperatures rising and on and on.

          Neither are "Scientists" . . . but one uses logic and common sense . . . the other uses the standard GW stuff.

          "Scientists think greenhouse gases contribute to global warming."

          Key word here being "THINK" . . . or the other commonly used word is "BELIEVE" . . . . I am only interested in what Scientists can PROVE or DEMONSTRATE ! ! !

          CO2 in the distant past has been MANY TIMES higher than today . . . it has also been much lower than today. In fact when it was in the 250 parts per MILLION range is when Famine and Stavation were prevalent around the globe.

          The reality is 390 ppm . . . or 1/36 thousandth of the atmosphere is controlling the temperature . . . that is just not TRUE ! ! ! Mars has an atmosphere of almost entirely CO2 . . . yet its day to night temperature swings are massive . . . over 100 degrees.

          If CO2 would double tomorrow . . . do you think anyone would notice?

          They would NOT . . . only the plants would notice. The hypothesis that CO2 drives temperature is nonsense. The PREDOMINANT GH Gas is Water Vapour . . . over 90% of Green House Gasses is WATER VAPOUR . . . why are we not controlling WV? You can even watch the effects of Water Vapour on our environment from your own patio . . . What happens on a Clear Winter Night . . . it gets very cool, even below zero some time. When the CLOUDS (water vapour) move in . . . what happens? The temperature climbs, it gets noticeably warmer.

          Can CO2 do this? Science has been unable to demonstrate this.

          And why are we not controlling Water Vapour? Because you can't blame man for it . . . and charge him a FEE or TAX . . .

          Where do you have the "cleanest" environment? In Rich countries or in Poor Countries? So by limiting Fossil Fuels will China or India ever become "Rich, Clean Countries"? The evidence is all around you . . . the enviro loons go to Africa and give them a solar panel and a windmill . . . will they ever achieve our level of comfort and prosperity with these devices? Not a friggin chance ! ! !

          The Enviro Movement has been taken over by globalists, marxists and the far-left . . . even Putin agrees. This is why you don't see them in Russia or China today, where they would be dealt with as the traitors they are. It is far easier to tap the "useful idiots" in the west to bankroll their Anti-human anti-prosperity agenda.

          "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism." Vladimir Lenin

          "Fascism is capitalism in decay." Vladimir Lenin (precisly what is going on in the USA today)

          "The best way to destroy the capitalist system is to debauch the currency." Vladimir Lenin (precisely what the O'bammy admin. is doing today)

          "Give us the child for 8 years and it will be a Bolshevik forever." Vladimir Lenin

          "When there is state there can be no freedom, but when there is freedom there will be no state." Vladimir Lenin (parallels the Maurice Strong, Georgie Soreass Plan)

        • Agarnier

          Just one final note. You cover all your rebuttals with mind numbing anecdotal stories that ring of fabricated, unfounded beliefs, totally unsupported by even rudimentary science. Much like your religious beliefs wouldn't you say?!

        • DCW16

          Watch this video . . . you may even see yourself . . .

          AGENDA: Grinding America Down (Full Movie) FREE to watch for a limited time.

        • Agarnier

          All I saw was deluded fools pushing their agenda of corporate lies and religious bullshit. Get a real life. The only life you know is the life in the hereafter. It doesn't exist fool. What your real life should be concerned with is mankind and its future existence in the cosmos. Mindless profit without purpose support only greed, not humanity.

        • DCW16

          What you see is the "Globalists" . . . the folks you said were "dangerous" . . . setting up the US to buy the "Big Lie" . . . and it is working beyond belief . . .

          What I believe is irrelevant . . . to the FACTS before us . . .

          The reality is as Lenin predicted "useful idiots in the West" . . . would enable the communists (one World Order) to dominate the world . . .

          The US was always the last hope for Freedom . . . but today, with the infiltration of even the WH . . . things are not lookin good.

          You have little to offer in the conversation . . . except somehow PM Harper upsets you . . . laughable . . . as Canada is one of the few countries on the planet that is still viable and relatively free. But as your globalist friends continue to take over in the US . . . will Canada be next. I suspect once the US is toast . . . Canada will follow with barely a whimper.

          What you don't understand is where "Freedom" came from . . . it is not a gift from the local govt. Read a History book . . . the Concept of Freedom was born in England in the 11th Century with the Magna Carta. It has been the precedent in English Common Law for almost a thousand years that Freedom is a God given right. Thus the concept has come down to us through the British legal system and parliament to the US and Canada.

          That is "Real" History . . . matters little what you "believe" . . . them's the facts.

          I know its hard for you to swallow . . . the fact that the folks you align yourself with are the "Catalysts" to the New Global Governance . . . they have even said so in their own words . . . but the Al Gore's and the David Suzuki's of the world care little about your well-being . . . they care only about Themselves . . . their comfortable lifestyle and the ease with which they Fill Their Bank Accounts and Finance their Jet-setting Lifestyle . . .
          They regard you much the same as Lenin did . . . as "useful _____" voluntarily contributing to their comfort and well being.

        • Agarnier

          Here is a link based on emperical evedince explaining CO2 and the Greenhouse effect. Please educate yourself.

        • Agarnier

          Because you have the interest enough to question, I thought you should view a debate between people more educated than ourselves on the topics we are beating about. It is an hour viewing so, schedule a time when you can give your full attention to the video. It may open your eyes even to views that you support. Enjoy!

      • Clint

        Bingo and kudos to you and Doodlebug.

      • Peter S. Guild

        Parochial Schools are awesome. I'm quite disappointed that enrollment in Parochial Schools has declined recently. A voucher system for education would sure fix that. Peter Guild, St. Joseph's Parish, Quincy, MA.

        • NoCrossNoCrescent

          And I am sure you'd have no objection if you tax many went to Islmaic schools?

      • romney2011

        Vouchers? You will have to make some local political changes first. And vouchers won't help; they will and already have begun the "Common Core" and "C-scope" programs. That will have to be stopped first. Look up "International Baccalaureate" and that too will have to be eliminated. All this has to start with conservative wins at the school board, mayor, councilman and commissioner leverl. At the very same time organize, educate yourself and pass it on. I attended a local conservative group that organizes and educates at the local, state, federal and international levels. The focus is on the local and state levels, but our socialist and communist enemies have organized at all levels and for a long time. And.....they NEVER give up or stop. If WE don't do the same just count on loosing. So get off your butts and get busy.
        Also, begin civil disobedience and prepare for survival. Go to "Captain Dave's Survival" and "follow the simple directions". Join an active militia group. They will show you how vulnerable you are. Conservative Americans are waaaaaay behind the times in every area of importance to preservation or you, your family, and America. So get off your butts and get busy.
        The enemies? Obama, Islam, Marxism, RINOs, and fools. The churches are beginning to become failures and enable the enemies now. The United Methodists and the Episcopals support Islamic propaganda. Don't bellieve me? Confirm with the denominations.

      • nickRay

        Great idea olein. I mean...what could possibly go wrong by locking your little boys up with a bunch of Catholic priests all day? (snicker). Jesus loves the little children of the world all right!

        • Laura Dettle Lyons

          Just in case you didn't know, all people who sexually abuse children are molesters. All men who sexually abuse little boys are GAY!!! Men abusing little boys is the largest category of sexual abuse involving children. So, by your logic of all priests are child molesters, then so are all GAY men. And are these the same child molesters that liberals are fighting so hard to be troop leaders for the BSA? Foe equality? Or is sexual abuse of children only bad when committed by Catholic priests and acceptable when committed by troop leaders, in fact promoted for troop leaders because if all GAY men are sexual predators then you liberals are promoting child sexual abuse. Which is not surprising because you promote the death of hundreds of thousands of babies each year but then get all in an uproar to protect only certain babies.....from guns, but not GAY people, who, by your logic are all child molesters?! It must be difficult to be a liberal, your logic gives me a head ache.

        • nickRay

          surprise surprise. A Tea Partier who doesn't know what she's talking about. "According to the National Child Abuse and Neglect Data System (NCANDS) ... that girls are more frequently the victims of sexual abuse, but the number of boys is also significant." Nor are all men who molest boys "gay." Many assault both boys and girls. The difference between individual child molesters and the Catholic Church is the systematic, international coverup and official protection for pedophile priests by the Catholic jhierarchy at the highest level. It must be easy being a wingnut. Requires no logic at all. At least you don't give me a headache.

        • DCW16

          You belong to NAMBLA Nick?

        • nickRay

          Hate to disappoint you DCW but no. I don't want to buy your little boy. Especially not after your sloppy seconds.

        • Ariviste

          There is no higher incident of sexual abuse among Catholic priests than in the population as a whole. Look it up. There is just more publicity.

        • nickRay

          I never said there was. There is, however, rather a higher incidence (100 percent)among priests of pedofiles who claim to be the representatives of Christ on earth, and use that status to entrap their victims. Did you really think through this post before you sent it? You are arguing that Christian morality is no better at deterring child rape than atheism or Islam or Buddhism or any other creed. In that case where do the "Christians" on this thread get off with the pious sanctimony and smug self righteousness? I do agree with you that Christian morality is no more moral than anything - or nothing - else.

        • John

          I am now dumber after reading this. Whew.

        • Adam

          Abstinence makes the Church grow fondlers.

          Nothing at all to with being GAY you moron. Sex is in human nature whether to procreate or just because it is pleasurable. Starve someone of it and they'll end up looking for it one way or another. If there happens to be a handy choir boy nearby who can be hushed up by having the fear of an imaginary God put up them then they're the target. If you think abuse is targetted at boys alone and by gay priests then more fool you.

        • Agarnier

          Your ignorance abounds, and your lack of logic insults all of humanity. You are a hemorrhoid on the anus of society. Gays, as you call them, are men and women who prefer to spend their lives with those they love and who love them in return, despite their gender. Rapists and pedophiles are always narcissists who wield there abusive power on the week and defenceless. Gender doesn't matter to them either and are usually asexual. The sex act is just their display of dominance over their victims. They are usually religious. It allows them to hide in plain sight among your Christian organizations. The weak religious minds of Christian children makes them a prime target and highly malleable to the allure of the pedophile's sickness. "GOD MADE ME DO IT"
          is their first and only line of defence.

      • R Stone

        good idea. cut of their balls

        • thenotimer

          Is that anything like the "cut of their jib"?

      • TAM44

        You betcha.

      • Ultracon

        There is another solution...when one person starts threatening frivolous lawsuits infringing on the rights of many...kill him. Some people are still alive just because it is illegal to kill them.

        • FlickDude

          ....said the Lord, never.

        • Jansen Waddell

          Well he has said much worse, so you never know.

        • John

          How very Christian.

        • thenotimer

          Actually, this is pretty consistent with the character "God" from the Old Testament myths. To be really on point, they'd have to kill the atheist and his wife and any sons, but keep any virgin girls for themselves. Samuel 15:2

        • NoCrossNoCrescent

          Hm... "ultra con". What an apt name.

      • Phillip_in_TX

        My wife and I home school. God is welcome in our house.

        • John

          What about unicorns and dragons?

        • DCW16

          John's only hope is . . . . O'bammy . . . . lol

        • Deep Diver

          Wow, it's nice of you to admit that you are an abusive parent.

          Loving parents don't give their children cigarettes because it stunts their growth and loving parents down brainwash their children with religion because it stunts their intellectual growth.

          I guess you love your imaginary god more than you love your children. That's sad, I feel sorry for your children.

        • thenotimer

          Abraham would have killed his son as Yahweh instructed if Yahweh hadn't then told him not to. Yay!

        • DCW16

          Why don't you go to Saudi Arabia and preach your stuff . . . bet your not brave enough eh . . .

        • Deep Diver

          Ummm, because I agree with the founding fathers and their desire to keep church and the state completely separate.

          You are a shining example of why people laugh at Christians.

        • DCW16

          Deep Diver . . . does that indicate where your head is?

          Nowhere in the US Constitution or Bill of Rights does it ban citizens from their Religion of choice . . . But, it does ban the Federal Government from Establishing a STATE RELIGION . . . as the Euro Countries in the day had and still have today.

          Your interpretation is just nonsense.

          Did "athiests" have any influence on the formation of governments? You BET . . . athiesm was a key element in the religion of Communism . . . and played a large role in the Soviet Union and Communist China. They promoted Eugenics back in the day . . . another "insane" concept . . .

          Atheists make up a tiny percentage of the population . . . but want everything their way . . . like Gorebull Warming Alarmists . . . these folks are friggin nuts ! ! !

          All the freedoms and privileges you enjoy in America today . . . are the result of the Judaeo/Christian Heritage . . . no other religious culture on the planet developed similar freedoms or governments.

          "Laughing at Christians"? All three of you unaccomplished fools . . . lol

        • Phillip_in_TX

          No, I feel sorry for you. If you don't believe in God, that is your choice. Hopefully, you have chosen wisely.

          Have a nice day.

      • Ariviste


    • jong

      Of course this is just the start. Next they will try to drive the churches not only out of giving a prayer to start sessions but, out of their own buildings. Nice thing about that however is at that point they are known and out in the open.

      • Clint

        I get your drift, but I think they are already exposed quite plainly.

        • jong

          Perhaps but, the time to play whack a mole is not yet here soon very soon.

      • Doodlebug

        I believe the day will be here before long when Christians will be forced to worship undergroung as they do in many other places. Christians and obummer cannot exist together. obummer thinks he is Jesus Christ our Savior and boy do I have news for him, HE IS NOT! COME LORD JESUS, COME

        • jong

          Well just in case he is delayed I will worship the Lord and carry a loaded weapon

        • Phillip_in_TX

          Have you seen the new window sticker? "This house is protected by God and a Gun come in uninvited and you will meet both."

        • jong

          Yes I have. It seems a thief in Texas has recently proven this valid even if it was not on the door.

        • John

          Here's hoping! Indoctrinating innocent children into your cult should be outlawed as child abuse.

        • thenotimer

          He probably will as long as you give him a reach-around.

    • Amber Klienhans

      Amen Amen Amen Jesus is Coming soon!!!!!!!

    • rationall

      Are you Christians so weak in your faith that if you are not allowed to pray at a public meeting you will fail to act according to your beliefs in that meeting?

    • 1forthought

      You really are a special type of idiot. Founded on christian principles?! Our forefathers were escaping the persecution of christians, many of them were not christian. "In god we trust" wasn't even added until the communist red scare. And there's a reason they give bibles to prisoners, its not because they're converting, its because they were christian to start. An atheist prisoner doesn't receive a bible. But clearly christianity didn't keep them from getting into jail in the first place. And you can practice as much private prayer as you want, you just can't make it private. Otherwise, along with your public jesus prayer, there must be one for satan, and zeus, and the flying spaghetti monster. That's how freedom works.

      • Deep Diver


    • thenotimer

      "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..." Treaty of Tripoli, 1797. Tell me again how our country was founded on Christian principles.

    • Dan

      Go ahead and read the following paper published regarding religiosity in prisons:

      In many cases, superstition can increase the rate of recidivism because it makes the perpetrator feel like they've been absolved of responsibility to their fellow humans. Put another way, it's probably best not to make anti-social prisoners read a book filled with genocide, slavery, and executions.

    • Alfred Laurence

      Exactly how do you kick an omnipotent, omnipresent deity of of anywhere? Please explain, or were you just spewing out Fox news talking points?

    • Agarnier

      "Come Lord Jesus Come"
      Must be a reference to the Papal orgy going on at the Vatican. You and all religious fanatics are the evil in the world. Pedophilia and child abuse are a way of life for Christian leaders.

    • No2GOP

      Considering man has created more than 2,000 "gods" over the course of history, I'm just curious which god you worship and which one I'm supposed to worship.
      Our country was not founded on Christian principles, whatever those are, but was founded on the principle of freedom from religion. To think your Christian principles are the basis of our rules is a bit short-sighted - and wrong.
      Once you can prove the existence of your god as the only god and the founding of our country on supposed Christian values, then you can have the right to force your beliefs on those of us who don't want to hear it. Until then, hush.

    • Matthew Carniel
  • Screeminmeeme

    It's called capitulation to evil.

  • DCW16

    Next time I travel through Southern Washington . . . I will be sure to not stop in Longview for gas, coffee or lodging . . . this is insane, free speech no longer exists in this town.

    • Randy Renu

      Exactly. Stay at Ocean Shores.

    • nickRay

      On the contrary. Courtesy of Mr. Smith free speech and constitutionality finally now do exist in Longview. Government there is no longer favoring one religion over another and imposing it on an unwilling citizenry. Stay a while. Spend lots of money.

      • DCW16

        Nick . . . pull your head out . . . they would not do this if it were moooslimes . . . too risky ! ! !
        The prayer thing is NOT favoring religion . . . it an American Tradition . . . since the country was founded on the basis of Judaeo/Christian Philosophy . . .
        The comment on Christians killing mooslimes is INSANE . . .
        You sound like one of the Prius driving Obammy supporting crazy lieberals that are driving the State of Washington into the poorhouse.

        • Let's be reasonable

          "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion"- Ben Franklin, from the Treaty of Tripoli (a treaty ratified by Congress, thus affirming it as law). The claim of this country being founded on "Judaeo/Christian principles" is not only false, but easily proved false.

        • DCW16

          You are WRONG ! ! ! All English common law originated with the Magna Carta in England in the 11th Century . . . it is inescapably clear that it was based on Judaeo/Christian Philosophies . . . Canada, USA, Australia, New Zealand and other western countries have all evolved from this principal . . . that freedom is a "God given right" . . .
          For some loonie athiest in the 21st century to try to rewrite history . . . is laughable ! ! ! If you re-read what I wrote I did not say that the Govt of the USA was founded on the Christian Religion . . . only a dopy athiest would confuse "Philosophy" with "Religion" . . . but in the modern day . . . when schools have turned out abject morons for over 30 years now . . . am I surprised? the answer is NO ! ! !

        • John

          You sir are a hateful bigot and exactly what is wrong with this country. It's not atheists, gays, or Muslims ruining our country, it's close minded Christian bigots like you that are so far removed from Jesus that it takes an atheist to point out how un Jesus like all of you are, wishing pain and death upon people you disagree with.

        • DCW16

          John . . . are you a recent hi-school grad? You rave like a lunatic . . .

          You obviously identified with the "Prius driving Obammy supporting crazy lieberals" comment . . . LOL . . . that inhabit the freeways of Seattle, and are upset.

          When do you start to get concerned John . . . when you town starts to look like Brussels? That's in Belgium John . . . for the semi-literate ! ! !

          ps: How can one be a "hateful bigot" against a terrorist-driven, world dominating, freedom hating, political cult . . . called izzzzlam?

          "wishing death" . . . "heterophobes and atheists" . . . where did I mentioned any of these things . . . are you OK John?

    • Deep Diver

      Then perhaps you should just leave America because the state is not permitted to show any preference to one religion over another. Look at the First Amendment of the US Constitution. Why are Christians so ignorant of facts, history and reality?

  • Randy Renu

    God is tired of being it's our turn.

    • nickRay

      What God is tired of is being used as an excuse by you Bible beating hypocrites to attack the US Constitution and equal protection of the law.

  • A Concerned American

    they continue to irritate us veterans, I'm a vet and I proclaim the name of Jesus. The name of Jesus is the only name that offends so many people. But that is what jesus said, "because of my name..."

    • randy

      If the hate the name so much, my response is Jesus, Jesus, Jesus...Jesus. They don't mind hearing my Lords name as slang...where is their morals, Oh, wait they don't Have any. I will contend for the faith. All you christians.....calling all Real christians...Fight the good Fight of faith, even our faith. They can't get us all.!

      • thenotimer

        Nothing in the story has anything whatsoever to do with morals, so your assertion that atheists don't have any is both incorrect and non-sequitor.

      • Agarnier

        There is no escaping the truth. Religion is in its final death throes. Christianity has no real Christians, just delusional sheep and child abusers. Fighting may well be religion's only purpose but, the fight is futile.

    • Peter S. Guild

      I also love Jesus! Peter Guild, St. Joseph's Parish, Quincy, MA.

      • Laura Dettle Lyons

        Peter, I am unashamed and do not hide either. I am with you. I stand publicly with what i say, right or wrong. I will not hide :). It is so important for Christians and those who support the first amendment to not hide their identity. If one hides their identity, they are AFRAID to use the first amendment and by using a false name, Obama has already one and forced too many into hiding. I will not hide. I am Laura Lyons and I am pleased to meet you Peter Guild. I stand with you, unafraid. :)

        • Laura Dettle Lyons

          Did I really spell won wrong? Lol. I think I will survive this little snafu, lol

        • Agarnier

          Fools seldom differ!

    • Joker

      Why not also mention Santa at the start of the meeting?

      • A Concerned American

        Because he sits in the Oval Office!

        • Agarnier

          And Clowns run Congress to prevent Santa from doing his job. For JESUS sake, vote the Clowns out. I'm sure we would accomplish more in government if we eliminate clowns and fairy tales, especially the JESUS fairy tale.

        • DCW16

          "And Clowns run Congress to prevent Santa from doing his job."
          3 dozen bills in Crazy Harry's Desk . . . and its the fault of Congress?
          The problem is becoming obvious to any "thinking" person. The Obammy clown is still Campaigning and has been for over 4 years now. Why you ask? Because he is an Empty Suit . . . he is a radical leftist and unable to communicate with the members of Congress and the Senate. No budget for over 4 years, spending out of control and the clown in the Oval Office is golfing with Tiger . . . He is driving the big buss called the USA all the way to Greece . . .

        • Agarnier

          Yes fool, it is the fault of the mindless Republican congress. They have allowed their anti-Obama sentiment to ignore and abuse the electorate by blocking all reasonable legislation in support of the public good and protect the wealth and greed of their GOP cronies. When the Republican Congress is finally defeated in the mid term election, we will finally see intelligent legislation that supports the working class pass without needless interference from the greedy few. The thieves who legally steal from government through mindless GOP tax cuts for the wealthy will finally pay their fair share in the support of public social programs. You are your brothers keeper and the wealthy do not earn their keep. Obama is doing great. He has saved the country from imminent depression created by the Republican greed and stupidity of non-existent financial regulations. Obama has brought regulations and accountability to greedy financiers. Markets are improving and job creation is on the increase. The country is solvent again despite large deficits created by Republican greed and stupidity. Obama is America's saviour. Bush could not even bring his family's buddy, BinLaden to justice. Obama had to do it for him.

        • Ariviste

          You have been gulping the Obama Kool Aid. The Republicans have put forth numerous bills to try to create jobs, reform IRS, insure entitlements for our future seniors, and that Crook Harry Reid has tabled them all. Then Obama and the Democrats have the nerve to say Republicans won't compromise when they haven't made one attempt to compromise. They have enslaved the poor with welfare, and made sure they stay within the fold. You say Obama has saved the country from Depression, when unemployment is so high, the GDP has grown less than 1% and the country is sinking in debt after Obama has spent more money that all presidents in history. The country is NOT solvent. Do you actually believe those unemployment numbers or that Obama actually had anything to do with killing OBL? The report is that he was on the golf course when all those men were murdered in Benghazi. You talk about greed when Obama spent millions on vacations and Michelle spent millions on gowns and vacations at our expense. That fool is taxing the very job creators in our country to cut more jobs. Try looking at all those jobs numbers a couple of months after they are released when they are revised upward. Ask those engineers who are working at McDonalds if they are adequately employed. The Democrats report people as employed when they are cutting grass and baby sitting. Real unemployment is really around 22%. I thought you were smarter than that. You call me nieve. I say you are very foolish.

        • Agarnier

          Your religious insanity is equaled only by your naivety. The American public has witnessed the Republican Party slowly devour itself through greed and corruption since the early Bush years. Insulting people's sexual preferences, insulting the poor and those who barely survive on welfare, falsifying information to promote an illegal war, allowing the torture of political prisoners, demeaning and subjugating women and their rights as citizens, protecting the greed of health providers at the expense of the sick and the poor, etc., etc. Now that they have lost the presidency, and by a large margin, the American public thought that they, the Republicans, would pull their heads out and offer some assistance in rebuilding the economy. Instead they chose the most idiotic path of blocking all efforts to increase taxing their wealthy cronies at the expense and to the detriment of poor Americans. The American public will not forget the heartless greed of the Republicans against fellow American citizens in the next Congressional election. If they block reasonable gun control they could disappear like the dinosaurs and be considered too politically insane to ever run a country.

        • Ariviste

          You are such a nut case. Nothing you said is true. It is all Democratic talking points. Why don't you do some research on your own and see if anything you said is true. You say I'm naive, but you don't have an original thought of your own. You go ahead and believe whatever you would like and when our freedom is gone and our system of government is gone just remember how blind you were. If they took every penny wealthy people made it would not come close to paying the debt that Obama has gotten us in. All the babies that they have aborted would fill a small country. All the people who have lost the will to support themselves will bring us down. No matter what you think, you are not entitled to the money I have worked hard to make. It may not be much, but you and your like have no right to it. Insurance could have been changed to accommodate others, but now your mother and father's fate may rest on the decision of a panel who will decide whether they get the treatment they need and all of us will wait in lines to see a doctor who may or may not be of our choosing. Research for new medicine will have to wait. Hospitals will close and we won't have enough doctors to take care of us. All our medical plans will go sky high and it's already started. So many businesses will lay off workers or put workers on part time because they can't afford the premiums and you have the gall to talk about selfishness. The Democratic party has lied, cheated, stolen money and local (national elections too) elections and threatened those who would like to vote for the other party. You all try to keep people ignorant so that they won't know what you are up to. The majority of those who voted for Democrats voted for purely selfish reasons: he's black like me, he's cute, he will give me free phones, and on and on.
          They can't even name the vice president and don't know or care what is going on in the world as long as they get what they want. I would be ashamed, but apparently you're not.

        • Agarnier

          Are you listening to what you are saying? Welcome to the real world. Your fears of social inequities are what the rest of Americans contend with on a day to day basis. While, you and the greedy Repuglicans block all efforts to help those in need. Your ugly clergy even spend more on church luxuries than they spend on helping the poor. Your religions are about wealth, waste and slavery. Your ilk will not survive the judgement of the American people.

        • Ariviste

          Well, Al, I have to take my computer to the shop, so I can't play with you any more today. I will close by saying that you are ill informed, and you need more help than any of us can give you. You are bitter, envious, and yes, you covet the things of this society that others have accumulated. You are judgmental, and you seem to think very highly of yourself. Good bye and God Bless.

        • Agarnier

          Leave your computer at home without repair. The world hears enough of your Bullshit without the requirement of your useless two cents worth. You should go straight to your analyst and have him exorcise the demons and fairies from your thick skull. Science and reality are a lot more interesting than your haggard religious lies.
          Remember these words from your play with me.
          You earned nothing in this life without the backing and support of your family friends and community. You owe all of these people more than a debt of gratitude. You owe them, including the least of them, your undying support. Otherwise you become your worst fear, a greedy leach on human societies.

      • Ariviste

        Santa is busy at the oval office.

    • Let's be reasonable

      As a veteran, you of all people should not want to dishonor the sacrifices of your fallen comrades by allowing the constitution you swore an oath to defend to be corrupted. Read the Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment and reevaluate your position accordingly.

      • A Concerned American

        Huh? Explain that....

        • Let's be reasonable

          The Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment clearly states: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. . . ". Although it specifically notes Congress, this also extends to all government entities. Beginning a town council meeting with a prayer, especially the mention of a particular "god" violates this provision. Our nation, although predominantly Christian, contains people of numerous faiths, the Establishment Clause was intended to prevent any religion's members from persecuting those of differing religious opinion. You have to remember the Constitution was written in a period of time following centuries of religiously motivated wars in Europe and the Establishment Clause was written with the intention of preventing civil wars between religious factions in the United States. It has a great deal of utility in keeping the peace, as an establishment of any religion would disenfranchise those of different faiths and might cause them to go to war.

        • thenotimer

          Appropriate username. Thank you.

        • Butterfly Christie

          Thank you "Let's be reasonable".

        • Ariviste

          A prayer before a meeting does not ESTABLISH a religion. You are free to listen respectfully or not. If the government ESTABLISHED a religion, the government would support a particular religion and contribute to that religion's growth throughout the land. The government would give that religion cash and promote it. Having a prayer is not ESTABLISHING a religion. I have always taught my kids that they must listen respectfully and offer their own version if they would like. They do not disrespect another's beliefs.

        • thenotimer

          Absolutely. Public meetings should begin with a prayer to Allah.

        • Ariviste

          If it did, I would listen respectfully.

        • thenotimer

          That's well and good, but I would still argue that you should not have to. Prayer's place is in church, not coloring public policy. The best way to accommodate multiple religious doctrines is to subscribe to none.

        • Richard Eastridge

          It will never happen , if you think This Allah , who has been proven a child molester and a woman beater, I should start every morning by comeing by your work and beating your ass just for saying that retarded towelhead take that stuff back to your sand nation idiot

        • thenotimer

          Had to stifle a laugh. You've proven my point beautifully, though, thank you. A prayer is just a prayer unless it's to the wrong deity. By the way, don't be so sure that it will "never happen." As long as the apologists are running things, it's always a possibility.

        • King ♔ Dominic

          You mean like tax-breaks for religious institutions? Haha, yeah, thank God they don't do that...

          Having a prayer that you are free not to listen to is the same as saying "the state can force everyone to go to a Mosque every week, but it's okay because you don't have to pray while you're there or listen to anything". That's still establishment.

          What if every session started with a prayer to Vishnu? You'd be free not to join in or listen, of course...

        • Ariviste

          Religious institutions provide services to their community such as homeless shelters, battered women's shelters, help for the elderly or needy in the community, food banks, emergency help for victims of storms and natural emergencies. What do atheists do for their community? Perhaps they need tax breaks to enable them to do these things. Do you get tax breaks for donations to help your community?
          I visited a Muslim country a few years ago. Their calls to prayer did not bother me. I have attended religious ceremonies of those of other religions. While I did not necessarily agree with their beliefs, I listened respectfully and suffered no lasting harm from having heard their prayers. As an ESOL teacher, I respectfully listened to the beliefs from those of others, and I have learned and I felt no urge to disrespect them or deprive them of their expression of their religion. But I also would like equal respect from them when I attend events opened with prayers to the God I believe in. How about you?

        • Alfred Laurence

          Hold the fort sparky. Why do those who do not wish to participate have to be the ones to show respect? How about you respectfully pray while I do whatever the hell I please?

        • Ariviste

          I will pray and you do whatever you want. As long as doing whatever you want doesn't involve me you are free to do it. If you want to take my rights that is another matter. If I felt that being in a room while some said a brief prayer was so intolerable, I would stay away from the meeting, or arrange to arrive a little late in order to miss it. I have found the beliefs of others to be very interesting and educational, and who knows, you might learn something. By the way, my name is not sparky.

        • Deborah G

          That's what the little minority wants . If they don't like something they want a law , if a Christian or a conservative doesn't like something they simply avoid it. Big difference.

        • Deborah G

          Go do whatever you wish I promise God will be watching

        • Agarnier

          If you had any respect you would not force your unfounded beliefs on those who disagree, they are the majority. Christians make up less than 1/2 of the population while Jews, Muslims, atheists and other make up the vast majority.

        • Ariviste

          I think you protest too much. Why do you feel so threatened by a person saying a brief prayer? Maybe there is something missing in your life, or maybe something has happened to you to make you hate so much or make you so angry.

        • Agarnier

          What you think is unimportant. Christianity is no longer a threat. It has run its course of terrorism and abuse and is rapidly declining throughout the world. Their wealth is in decline due to lack of contributions and large legal settlements to sexually and emotionally abused victims of the church clergy. The only thing missing in my life is the provision of justice (monetary and otherwise) for the victims of Christianity and accountability from those religious clergy who have perpetrated crimes against humanity; there are many. The hatred I feel toward the clergy is fuelled by the fact that not one member of any Christian faith has ever been excommunicated or defrocked by the church for raping and abusing children. On the contrary, they protect them. It is only in recent years that they had to answer to the criminal courts for their debauchery. How can you not hate and despise such a vile and morally corrupt organization?! If you open your eyes and see reality for what it is, you will no longer wish to live the religious lie. May fate be kind to you. The ignorant and innocent are highly susceptible to bad karma.

        • Ariviste

          You say that not one member of any Christian faith has ever been excommunicated or defrocked by the church for abusing children. I did not feel you knew what you were talking about so I went to do some research. You are very, very wrong. The peak of child abuse was in the late 1960's and 1970's. It declined sharply when Regan took office in the 1980, when conservatives were in control of the government. Between 1950-2002, there were 4,392 priests accused of abuse out of 109,694 priests serving the church. That works out to be about 4%. The rate of child abuse among those in other professions is also about 4%. The difference is the amount of new media generated by articles of the Boston Globe, Newsweek, and others who put a focus on the problem. There are high incidences of child abuse, more in the past few years, among teachers, policemen, scout masters, not to mention abuse of parents of their children. One of the more recent cases of child abuse by a priest is the case of Cardinal William Lynn, who was sentenced to serve 3 to 6 years for child endangerment when he did not report a priest abusing children. In 1986 Father Gilbert Gouthe received 20 years for abusing children. One priest received 60 years. It is despicable that the Church attempted to cover up the abuse, and any abuse of children is damnable, but I am just saying it is not any worse in the church that in the population at large and it is lower now than in the 1950's through the 1970's.

        • Agarnier

          I did say that clergy were finally being prosecuted in the courts and found guilty and punished by the legal system. I did say that none, especially Catholic, the worst offenders, clergy have remained in the clergy during and after their sentence. Religions are the only fools who incorrectly claim the moral high ground and as such claim to govern the moral majority. A silly notion I agree but, religions are not proving to be the bastion if moral superiority. I would wager that most other pedophiles and child abusers in other walks of life are also Christian in their moral beliefs. Monkey see Monkey do or, the blind leading the blind?

        • DCW16

          You live life in your "Closed Mind" Ag . . . you remind me of my now deceased father . . . a Devout Socialist, one actually once worked with Maurice Strong back in the day. What was amuzing though, my father thought Maurice had a few loose screws. Back in the day I actually met some "far-left" politicians and movers and shakers. Didn't take long for me to understand that their plan for my life was not the same as an Ambitious, motivated freedom loving 20-something. More than once I was told "we know what is BEST for you" . . .

          Dear old dad was never able to free his mind from his own "belief" system. He had his own version of history, and his own reality and saw the world through the rose-colored glasses of socialist thought. His last years were spent in angry mode . . . kind of like crazy Tom Mulcair . . . as his world looked less and less viable.

          You remind me of my dad . . . you even deny historical facts as you live in your greenie-marxist bubble . . . but hey . . . just like all the muzzzzie terrorists get their "Just" rewards, and it isn't 72 virgins . . . lol We will all one day come to the end of our physical existance. I am sure it would be interesting to chat with my dear ole dad today ! ! !

          Life is about "Choices" . . . many make poor choices and expect the Govt to come to their rescue . . . unfortunately today in the good ole USA . . . we are approaching the tipping point . . . once 50% plus 1 are in this group . . . the Republic is finished. Once the US is gone . . . the few remaining Western Democracies will follow. Socialism is a terminal condition . . .

        • Agarnier

          Your father sounds like a good man with respect for humanity. It's unfortunate you didn't like him as a roll model. You could have been a better man. He probably realized that religious morality was top down oriented, with the vengeful greedy at the top. Everyone wants a more humane economic system than the slavery of religious ideals that do more to separate, enslave and destroy humanity than save it. If your father were anything like me he would be hugely disappointed in you and what you represent. The manipulative, greedy, destructive capitalists of the world. Those who take advantage of the poor to fill their coffers. Lawyers, thieves, industrial polluters, money lenders, killers, the NRA, corrupt politicians and such ilk. Those who value profit more than human life. Answer this, when was the last time you went out of your way to help a stranger without any expectations of gaining something in return. I bet your dad did a lot for others.

        • DCW16

          Funny Ag . . . everywhere on the Planet where your "Vision" has been tried . . . the results have been Mass Murders, violence, poverty and dispair.

          My mother was the glue that held our family together . . . she was the brains of the operation and taught us all that education, hard work and honesty were the path to success. All my brother and I did well. My dad was actually a passenger in the group . . . somewhat self-centered and had little ambition. Mother on the other hand had many skills, ran her own business, bought the new cars, built two new houses when I was young and managed the family funds. She taught us all to "Think Critically" and that nothing was impossible if you worked for it.

          Your nonsensical rants are amuzing . . . Castro and Chauvez have nothing on you . . . you are a shallow angry man, probably looking back at your life is depressing for you. You, as I said remind me of ole dad, you could present dad with the facts, even standing in front of the obvious evidence . . . and he would disagree . . . you could be pointing out a black wall . . . and if he thought it was blue . . . to him it was blue.

          Don't know why you are raving about "religion" . . . there are only TWO religions on the planet that are Dangerous to the inhabitants of Earth.
          One is Izzzzlam . . . the other is the religion of Humanism/atheism/socialism.
          I believe you subscribe to the latter . . .

          Christians have done much good for the world, as I have said before, all free, democratic countries originated from Christian Philosophy . . . while the Atheist regemes were responsible for the deaths of 100's of millions in the 20th Century.

          Capitalism is far from perfect . . . but it is far better than the alternatives that have been tried down through history. Where capitalism gets into difficulties is when politics gets in the game or interferes . . . as in the "Community reinvestment Act" of 1993 . . . which destroyed the housing market in the US and the global economy. The govt did it . . . left-leaning do-gooder leftists with no understanding of economics crashed the game . . . this does not mean Capitalism does not work. Look at the Obammy admin. investing in all the Green Energy scams . . . it was obvious they would not work . . . but got Billions of tax dollars, lined their pockets and went broke . . . once again leftist loons picking winners and losers in the market place.

          It is obvious to me that you are a set in your marxist ways ole timer . . . Karl would be proud . . . but it did not work then . . . it will not work now.

        • Ariviste

          Yes, Christians make up 1/2 which is the majority when compared to the others. I have heard the beliefs of others and listened to their prayers without feeling they are forcing them on me. Why do you feel that everyone must give in to you? Why can't you just be respectful and make accommodations when you are in the minority. That is what reasonable people do. They do not expect others to accommodate them. Why is it so painful for you to hear another person say a prayer. If you don't believe, it should make no difference to you, but if you have doubts, maybe it will help you to sort out your true feelings. I believe you would like to believe, but you are very angry about something.

        • Agarnier

          You are not only naive in your beliefs, you are lousy at math. Less than half is not a majority. There are 7 billion people in the world and 2.6 billion are Christian. You belong to the menial minority. We have heard the lies of Christianity for over 2000 years. How long do you expect the world to respect your delusion? Religion is the root of all evil in the world. without religion, evil would not exist.
          Even your Christ became angry according to the fairy tale. Why does your unfounded faith expect the world to give in to you? Tolerance is expected of all who wish to live in peace. Respect is given to those who earn it. No religion has earned my respect but, I do tolerate them. There are no reasonable people who believe in Christianity. If they used reason and their intelligence they would not believe in Santa, Jesus and the Easter Bunny. Nor would they allow the church clergy to rape and abuse their children without contest.
          You must be a highly religious, inane individual. I have told you unequivocally that I am angry because of rampant religious abuse of children within Christian churches but, your religion prevents you from seeing truth. I believe in nature, science and human intelligence to discover the secret of survival and the POSSIBLE immortality of the human species. Nothing in nature exists forever except maybe a SPECIES that conquers natures secrets and spreads its seed throughout the universe.

        • Ariviste

          So, you are saying that over half of those at your meeting where the prayer was offered were atheist? I live in Georgia. Christians make up over half of any group. I am not saying that Christians make up over half of all religions. In almost every group in this country where you will be attending meetings there are usually double the amount of Christians to Jews, Christians to atheist, Christian to Muslims, etc. In this country, Jews, Muslims, other non-Christians are in the minority, at least in most places I have visited. I am not talking worldwide .

        • Agarnier

          Well everyone who profess to be Christian in America obviously do not agree with you. It must have been the majority of Christians who don't go to church and could care less that voted for Obama. If the majority agreed with you, wacko Mitt Romney would be president. "Heaven Forbid!" LMFAO

        • Julie Szydlowski

          It's "couldn't care less", not "could care less". Just sayin'.

        • Agarnier

          If they could care less they would not profess to be Christian. Just saying!
          Al Garnier

        • Deborah G

          All of the racists voted for OBAMA regardless of religion because to him racism against the whites is what he is truely about deep down.

        • Deborah G

          Evil exists not because of religion but because it does. call it satan, call it a force it is there. religions try to help people cope and defend against it. I resect any peacful religion that helps people understand God and the evil forces.

        • Agarnier

          Bullshit!!! Everything religion can't make a buck off is evil. Sex is evil, gays are evil, they even list off a litany of sins and evil for the sheeple. They created evils from their sick minds to play on the stupidity of fools. It's all Voodoo crap. The only evils in the world were those that threatened human life before idiotic religion came along. Religion IS the root of all evil.

        • DCW16

          According to US surveys . . . about 70% of the US population identify themselves as "Christians" . . . that's a bit more than half I would suggest.
          It was 1/2 the folks that voted for O'bummer . . . some more than once . . . lol

        • Agarnier

          Over 90% of heavy drinkers identify as non-alcoholics. Most of those who identify as "Christians" never go to church and know little about the history of the religion they hold as truth. Most could care less. It is simply a box you check off when filling mind numbing census forms. Most women are sickened by the male dominance & female servitude supported in all religions and the Republican party. It is mindless emotional fanatics like you who willfully perpetuate the inane lie. Obama has the support of the sane majority even though he politically professes his faith. But, he is careful not to support any religion politically. He truly represents all Americans as equal. We all have our short comings. Republicans more than others.

        • DCW16

          Your comments are borderline crazy . . . another unhinged leftist . . . so common in Washington State . . .

          Obama is an "Empty Suit" . . . has campaigned now for 5 years . . . the country is heading over the cliff . . . He does not know HOW TO LEAD ! ! ! and the World is now LAUGHING at the Amateur in the WH ! ! !
          Tell me . . . how are you and your children going to pay back the soon to be 22 TRILLION National Debt? Don't know?
          As Dimmicrap states are filing for bankruptcy, cities, towns unable to pay Pensions of Retired Union Members . . . are you concerned?
          The Fed is Printing 900 Billion a Year to buy National Debt . . . what are you going to do when the dollar is worth 29 cents?

        • Agarnier

          Pretty much a duplicate post, and you call me clueless? The retired paid for their pensions while the wealthy under Republican regulations simply stole it from the public through price fixing. Obama changed the regulations so that the wealthy could not rob the poor under his watch. Obama is proving to be a true representative of a Democratic majority. You're just pouting over the fact that Obama has made mindless wealthy fools like you his whipping boy while helping the truly needy individuals in American society. Get over yourself. We have!
          Al Garnier

        • DCW16

          Republicans stole pensions????? I was talking about places like Bakersfield, Stockton and San Diego CA . . . where the cities are broke, retired city workers are outright cut off or had their pensions decreased. Dimmicrat controlled forever. Same for Detroit . . . bankruptcy . . .
          Your angry aat the Wealthy? The top 1% pay 40% of all income taxes, the top 10% pay 70% of all income taxes . . . and that's not enough for you? The bottom 50% pay NO income taxes . . . but line up for free stuff . . .
          Al you are worse than clueless . . . the O is spending over 1 TRILLION a year . . . that the country does not have. This is insane . . . how are your children and your grandchildren going to pay this back? Evert ask that question?
          The Dimmicraps destroyed the housing market, are spending the country into oblivion and running the printing presses day and night.
          And your best comeback . . . is . . . its the Republicans?

        • Deborah G

          ER Obamam raided their lockbox to pay for OBUMMERCARE forget that?

        • Agarnier

          The money belongs to the people of the United States and it should be spent on the people of the United States, not the greedy corporate f*cks.
          Al Garnier

        • Deborah G

          When you demonize the producers and they go elsewhere who will pay for your truely needy? The 47% on benefits and illegals?

        • Agarnier

          Who the hell are the producers, your overlords? The wealth of this world belongs to no single man but, the1% think they own it. We have news for them. Because of religion they have tamed the sheep to follow their laws, and look where that has gotten humanity! Millions of people starving daily. We are not here to serve and be fleeced and made slaves of by the wealthy. They made their wealth on the backs of slaves and whether you like it or not, it's about to change. Democracy is the will of the people not the will of the wealthy.
          Al Garnier

        • Ariviste

          Obama has divided the American people more than any other president in history. Americans of all faiths and religious preferences were getting along and learning to get along more than any other time in our history before Obama took office. I won't say it was perfect, but we were progressing. Obama has turned black and white against each other, Democrats and Republicans to the point they don't even speak much, liberals and conservatives against each other unlike any time in history, educated and uneducated, old and young, rich and poor, middle class against everybody, children against parents. All this is according to Obama's plan to divide us. If you can't see this you are truly blind. If you think he sees you as his equal, you are sadly mistaken. He sees himself as better than all of us. If you think Democrats have more shortcomings than Republicans check again. They have convicted felons serving them in Congress and large numbers of them are members of the Communist Party USA. Locally, I see them elect Democrats who steal them blind and then re-elect them. Republicans have their problems but they are minor compared to the "Get Rich Quick" Democrats who regard you as an insect under their feet.

        • Deborah G

          I couldn't have said it any better. A house dicided soon falls. We are falling unless we get rid of the liberal scourge cursing this country from the top. PObama ios Lucifer personified in my book. I have never seen a more evil administration get by on a nice smile.

        • truepatriotintx

          Better check again, your numbers are way off. America was founded as and always has been a "Christian Nation". The majority are Christians. Others have just crept their way in and we have been tolerant, which is more than we can say for them.

        • Agarnier

          Better check yours. The bullshit about a Christian Nation wasn't introduced until long after the found fathers were in their graves. They took pains to keep politics seperate from religious foolishness.

        • Deborah G

          we have a National Catherdral not am atheist meeting hall or a Muslim Mosque

        • Bearfoot

          suppose i worship satan...would you sit quietly while i invoke satan's name at a city council meeting? or, is jesus the only god that can be mentioned...if so, there goes freedom of religion again....

        • Ariviste

          If you want to invoke Satan, that's your business. I would decline to come to the meeting, or I would come late in order to miss your invocation. You have problems accepting the rights and beliefs of others. Why must the majority give up their rights to believe in God, so you can have the right to force your non-belief on them. It's a two way street. We can work together, but you must also give a little. I should not have to do all the giving.

        • Richard Eastridge

          Barefoot if you did thats your choice , but in the future we will be meeting that very satan your talking about ,hold on to your weapons, and start planning counter action with others in your city. its gonna go down since no cares to go after this imposter and thief obozo now

        • Deborah G

          i'd just leave and go somewhere that better suits my interests

        • Howard Vickridge

          Read the English carefully; you've misunderstood what is written. "no law respecting an establishment of religion" is not about laws establishing religion, but laws relating to an establishment. The word 'establishment' is used as a noun. Substitute "an establishment of ill repute" and you'll get the point.

        • Ariviste

          I respectfully disagree.

        • Deborah G

          The goevernment isn't supposed to make it so you HAVE to have a religion or have rights afforded to you taken away doesn't have anything to do with a prayer being said anywhere

        • thenotimer

          I like the comparison that you're (unintentionally) making here. However, you have your work cut out for you if you wish to suggest that our founding fathers wanted religious institutions to be above the law.

        • Ariviste

          See my post above about the Supreme Court decision and The Cornell Law School opinions. The word "establishment in the case of the First Amendment is a noun, but is a noun from the verb "establish". If something is established it is an establishment. It is referring to an action; not a thing.

        • WVStarkTruth

          An "establishment of religion" is a noun phrase. Establishment being the primary noun and "of religion" being prepositional phrase describing the noun - establishment... "respecting" is the action "showing respect for" (present/future) any particular establishment of religion. It is sad how the schools of America have deteriorated in the teaching of everyday English word usage. Nothing could be clearer if one is not reading through glasses that are tinged with an altogether separate and conflicting agenda. That agenda - one embraced by the Marxists among us for the past 100 years or more - is the destruction of religion so that the "needs" of the uneducated masses can be fulfilled in every way by government instead. This is where we are clearly headed and those of you who have bought into their Kool-Aid will eventually have served your purpose and will be tossed back into the pit of slavery to the state along with everyone else. The one highly aggravating aspect of this entire comment thread is how atheists demand tolerance of their view while dogmatically condemning and demagoguing everyone elses. As I said earlier, though, you will, in the end either change your mind or suffer the fate of those who have been informed and who refused to accept Jesus Christ as their savior. Without that VOLUNTARY acceptance, you have nobody but yourselves to thank for your place in H#$%! I pray you change your mind in time.

        • Ariviste

          It's not a noun phrase. It is a phrase which modifies the object in the sentence, "law". It tells what kind of law, "a law respecting the establishment of religion" The phrase is used as an adjective. Adjectives modify nouns. The phrase is not used as a noun. I'm not sure where your are going with your comment since you seem to be straddling the fence. I believe we agree on the rest of your comment, but I agree with the Supreme Court on the Establishment Clause.

        • DCW16

          "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. . . "

          MEANS . . . Congress shall NOT establish a STATE Religion . . . as is the norm in Europe to this day. eg: Anglicans in England, Catholics in Ireland, France, Spain and Lutherans in Germany.
          The "mental gymnastics" required to turn that into "NO RELIGION" is another example of "Fracking" in the lieberal mind.

        • Ariviste

          Good replly, DCW16. I agree with you.

        • nickRay

          This is hilarious. DCW knows better than the Founding Fathers what the Founding Fathers meant to say about religion. They didn't say "state" religion but our time traveling genius boy knows they meant to. Just kinda forgot I guess. In the meantime, assuming DCW is, as it appears, as loony as most everybody else on this thread, you'd think he'd be relieved that church and state are separated given that y'all are convinced Obama's Boy Scout storm troopers will soon impose Sharia law!!!

        • DCW16



        • Deborah G

          exactly they are not supposed to force anyone into a government theocracy based on one religion where your rights will be violated. It has zero to do with showing Christian symbols or prayers. They can't read father forgive them because they know not what they do.

        • Ariviste

          Board of Education Kiryas Joel Village School District v Grumet: Justice David Souter wrote for the majority opinion, " Government should not prefer one religion over another or religion to irreligion." Nothing about having a prayer at a council meeting. From the Cornell University Law School in their news letter: "The establishment clause prohibits the government from passing legislation to establish an official religion or preferring one religion over another." It deals with the establishment of a state religion such as the Church of England. The words "separation of church and state" are not in the Constitution.

        • Julie Szydlowski

          Wrong. The Establishment Clause means the government cannot force you to practice a religion nor can it force you to keep your religion to yourself. You have the freedom of religion, not freedom from religion and the government is supposed to stay out of OUR way, we do not have to stay out of the government's way!

        • WVStarkTruth

          If you truly understood what the "establishment clause" means (read Federalist papers for guidance), you would understand that the people who created the constitution were seriously suspicious of handing over ANY powers to a central government. Each state of the 13 were established by different religious groups who did not want a central government to pick a favorite and put them in the position of being forced to follow one national denomination. THAT is what the establishment clause states...specifically CONGRESS can make no law, but that clearly was not intended to prevent each individual state from doing so if that's what they wanted because that is, in many cases, what happened. Note some of the state constitutions from those days. The federalist papers are extensive and specific regarding the intentions of the writers of the constitution. The only way we find ourselves as screwed up as we are is through the improper twisting of the words of the Constitution by leftist judges who took one phrase from a private letter by Jefferson to a minister (who was concerned about that central government establishing a national religion) and twisted it into something that it did not state. Jefferson was describing the first amendment as successfully placing a wall of separation - ON THE SUBJECT OF RELIGIOUS PREFERENCE - between the national government and the states' individual choices regarding faith. He was not even making the statement in regard to the place of religion in the public square (or town council meeting). Gosh, the Capitol building served as a church for decades after the Constitution was ratified. Give me a break. More claptrap from the lost. But the cruel joke is on you, my friend, and I pray you have a change of heart because the end that awaits you is FAR more unpleasant than having the hear to name of Jesus might seem now. The lake of fire burns hot for eternity. But if that is what you choose, so be it. You cannot say you were not warned.

        • Deborah G

          OK lucifer whatever you say

  • CARL jr

    simple question -

    Would it be OK for city council meetings in Dearborn, Michagan to start off with a Muslim prayer to Allah?

    Are we only interested in majority vs. minority? What happens when you are in the minority?

    • Sue

      Do you really think they'll continue minority "status" once we are? What is a minority? If a city is all minority, doesn't it make them a majority? If choosing the world, white Christians ARE the minority. Does it count then? If you can't keep your country and your culture while in the majority, what happens afterward?

  • Victor Barney

    Why be surprised? Does not Revelation, chapter 11 clearly state that our HEBREW, NOT GREEK, INSPIRED JEWISH SAVIOR(Zeph. 3:9, Acts 26:14, 1 Cor. 4:6) "YAHSHUA,"(meaning in HEBREW:"YAHWEH(YHWH) MEANS SALVATION") EVEN WAS REJECTED & KILLED BY HIS OWN PEOPLE? SO, really, what's really new? Just wondering...Watch!

    • Amber Klienhans


  • Seeker1212

    Democide in the 21st Century
    I recently read an article By Matt Bracken:
    Democide: Socialism, Tyranny, Guns and Freedom. Watch the short video.

    A truly moving article that highlights the Democide that took place during the 20th century and how it was tolerated by the world, and it made me think of the Democide taking place today.

    Democide, as the name implies, does not happen in the dark of night without any awareness of it in the country where it occurs. The Turks knew the Christians were being mass murdered. Average Germans were fully aware of what was happening to the Jews between 1938 and 1945, and a large majority either actively supported or at least tolerated it. The world supported it through its silence.

    Today a Democide of Christians by mass murders is taking place, not only in the Mid-east, but in many other countries, and the world again is turning their heads, blind and deaf to the screams of the murdered innocent men, women and children, their only crime is being Christians.

    Here in America, as well as throughout EU, the Democide of Christians is taking place, not by mass murders, but rather by the demonizing of the Christians and the Christian Bible and the outright destruction of Christian values

    We are on a one way path to hell.

    • nickRay

      Name a country Where christians are being killed in mass. I can name several countries where Christians are slaughtering Muslims: Iraq, Afghanistan and Yemen to name 3.

    • John

      Hell doesn't exist. Try to keep up.

  • wildeagleone

    Tell that Mother frucker to go to h3ll and re-call him immediately

  • Wolfy Ghalkhani

    what is civil disobedience? its time to learn its meaning and use it. Dont let the left dictate culture. Say the rosary in front of public buildings, block off streets like the muslims do. Dont let fear get into your hearts. Stand firm. demonstrate resolve.

    • Maine Gage

      KNOW THIS: Civil disobedience will not work in this evil age. This is a very different world than in Ghandi's day. The majority of people are numbed to evil, or even enamored by it, when it is marketed as "cool", just like Obama is. Do you think this corrupt media will show martyred Christians in a favorable light? No way, they already RIDICULE Christians & conservatives who have been victimized. On the news, in the papers, online, and the late-night comedy shows (like Bill Maher). Evil is in the majority now, it runs the show, calls the shots, and says who/what is cool and what is to be ostracized. The first wave of civil disobeyers will quickly find their way ushered into martyrdom (I hope they know Jesus). And people will only laugh, they will not be convinced of the rightness of their cause. That is what happens in this culture of watching sick stuff as entertainment.

  • Sue

    So, it's okay to say have a nice day but not okay if you say Jesus hopes so too? If you don't like it ignore it. They're not hoping you die a horrible death.

  • posthuf

    Quick and easy fix here. Start substituting "allah" every time you would use God or Jesus. Let that useless atheist whine about that and he'll be beheaded.

    If he's too stupid to realize that he has a choice of God or death, let him die.

    • oldcoyote

      God is pronounced Allah in Arabic.There is only one God of all creation. He is One and the Same.

      • Stephen Brummitt

        I don't care what the muslims call their iteration of a god concept, their concept is nowhere near the real Biblical God; and, I am certain that they would protest vehemently at my assertion, that Christ is an undevorcible part of the Godhead. We DON'T believe in the same God, by ANY stretch of the imagination! Besides that, my God is Love, and Allah is nothing less than an ethereal embodiment of Hate!

      • Screeminmeeme

        oldcoyote...While it is true that there is only ONE GOD of all creation, the God of creation described in the BIble is the antithesis of the false god, allah, as described in the Quran and other authoritative texts.

      • DCW16

        allah . . . is a friggin rock in Medina . . . Zero connection to the G*d of Abraham . . . .

    • Clint

      No, a thousand times no. I will never refer to Yeshua/Yahweh as allah. That would play right into the hands of the muslims and their plans.

  • Darlene Thecolaratlady

    The last 5 sentences in this article said it all and is comepletely right. This country is doing everything possible to tempt the hand of god..btw...israel became a state in 1948..clock is ticking.

  • Steve Johnson

    Every session of the Senate, the House and SCOTUS begins with a prayer. In congress a minister is paid to pray by using tax dollars approved for the purpose by Congress. There is NO separation of church and state.

  • Lorraine E

    I no Ionger recognize My Country! It used to be majority rule and now it is minority rule, even if it is only One Person! Our government has kicked our God out of schools, the news media, public buildings and places, and is now crippling churches. When the day comes, and it will, that God withdraws His Grace from the U.S.A. He will be totally justified.

    • Sue

      I think it's more as long as "we don't" rule. Anyone but us.

    • Michele Moore

      This guy needs to be sued for offending our way of rule, Its time to take back our God given rights. Let the atheist come in after the prayer...I reallly like this idea....just say lets have a moment of mediation and everybody start praying outloud, even for only 15 sec...maybe that would shut his pie hole up. .

      • nickRay

        All of this raising the question why, if Michele Moore hates liberty and the US constitution this much, she stays here. What yshe so arrogantly describe as "our way of rule" is specifically barred by the very first amendment - and wisely so given the theocrats and totalitarians on this thread.

        • Michele Moore

          what I am offended at is why my christian values have to be given up for the ones who don't want prayer...

        • nickRay

          Keep your alleged Christian values, whatever those might be. No one is trying to tke them away from you. Nobody cares much what you think one way or another. But, and here's the thing, what you can't do, despite your buringing desire to, is force your views on other people using the power and the premises of the state. That's what the first amendment does - protect everybdoy's freedom of religion by keeping government out of it. That's all our atheist hero is doing here at the City Council. Protectijg your and his right to belioeve or not in whatever you want to believe by keeping government out of it. Are you really so lost in your sanctimony and your self-righteous religiousity that you can't understand that rather simple point?

      • John

        You don't really understand democracy, do you?

    • Clint

      Lorraine, our government here in the U.S. has always been a Constitutional Republic, not a Democracy. Democracy is where the majority(mob) rules. A Constitutional Republic means that we are governed by our representatives whom we select to represent us. Our government is supposed to have no more power than we the citizens allow. At least that is the way that it is supposed to work. I agree that we Christians, as a whole, have become lazy and lethargic, going along with the crowd so we will not be perceived as intolerant, therefore we have allowed satan a foothold. At this point, it will be a much harder fight than it would have been before satan and his minions made so much headway. But fight we must to reclaim our Christian nation with it's Judeo/Christian principles.

      • Peter S. Guild

        We Christians are still a majority, so we can stand up to anti-Christ individuals and organizations. I Love Jesus! Peter Guild, St. Joseph's Parish, Quincy, MA.

        • John

          You can believe in Jesus all you want. Just keep your delusions out of my government. intelligent people are trying to real work here, and not all of us have the luxury of believing in magic.

        • DCW16

          Do you know where your "Freedoms" come from John? Bet you don't . . . so I will

          inform you.

          All English common law originated with the Magna Carta in England in the 11th Century . . . it is inescapably clear that it was based on Judaeo/Christian Philosophies . . . Canada, USA, Australia, New Zealand and other western countries have all evolved from this principal . . . that freedom is a "God given right" . . .

          Riddle me this John . . . what "athiest" country give its citizens the same rights as the USA? I will bet the answer will be a long time coming . . . lol

      • John

        This country was founded to escape religious persecution, so stop persecuting us with your backwards religion! Believe or worship whatever ridiculous thing you want, stop forcing it on me!

    • Sylvia Sweet

      I think God is already starting to withdraw His grace from the USA.

    • Haziq Mir

      *yawns* Waiting for the Zombie, still?

  • Margie Huffman

    Stop it if you are Christians. Get sued. I'd rather be sued by little ACLU or the complainer than face JESUS and say I was AFRAID to say HIS name...what kind of prayers are you doing up there anyway?

    • Peter S. Guild

      Yes! We must take a stand in favor of Christianity. The ACLU is going down. Peter Guild, St. Joseph's Parish, Quincy, MA.

    • nickRay

      Mostly we pray to Jesus to deliver us from His more lunatic and anti-democratic followers.

  • Gerry Schulze

    I don't think merely not mentioning "Jesus" solves the problem. If prayers to "Jesus" are unconstitutional in this circumstance, so are prayers to a generic deity. I'm not sure how "orthodox" the atheist is if he is willing to tolerate prayers "to whom it may concern."

    The law is far from clear about whether local legislative bodies that want to open their meetings with a prayer. For some perspective of just how complicated this can get, read Marsh v. Chambers, 463 U.S. 783 (1983).).

    What is clear is that the government should not "establish" any religion. What is not clear is exactly what that means. I don't want Christianity or Islam or atheism or Pastafarianism to be the official religion of the United States or any political subdivision of the United States, even some burg in Washington that I've never heard of.

    Also it looks like the Lord has punished me for this comment by centering it instead of left justifying it.


    • Michele Moore

      We were a nation founded on religious freedom, and God given rights.

  • Hotnike

    Just another sorry-a&& politician, I don't remember the country called the U.S. of A.

  • Bjorn Skeptik

    And who would have objected to a jewish prayer to yahweh,or a buddist prayer, or a muslim prayer?

  • daves

    What a joke - God is alive and well in our public schools and towns throughout the U.S. The only thing that is not allowed is for a government employee to lead a public prayer.

    “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you."

    • Laura Dettle Lyons

      Last night, when I was at the mall I decided to visit the Christian bookstore. As I was looking at the devotional books a kid, about 12-13 years old ran by the front of the store and yelled "Christians suck!". Yes, Jesus is very much alive in our country today. Christians are now being singled out and treated like black people were once treated and the regression of tolerance is increasing daily. Our forefathers made it clear, this nation was to be run in a Godly manner. Public officials have every right to say a prayer whenever and wherever they choose. That should NEVER be governed. Consider Christians the same as everyone else. Fight just as hard for Christian rights as gay rights. And if you can't, why is that? Is it because there is room for only one in the heart and we choose who that "one" is, God or Satan. You would prefer all prayer be hidden in the closet but all homosexuals come out of the closet? Besides that, it will need to be a large closet for two or more to gather, hence the church and public groups.

      • nickRay

        What an america hater you are. does the US constitution really mean nothing to you at all? Any government official who uses the power of the state to impose his or her religious beliefs on others should be immediately removed from office. Its not government's business to endorse or bar any religion, including yours. Period. And are you so completely detached from reality that you equate a bratty 12-year-old to centuries of chattel slavery, legalized rape, lynchings, Jim Crow segregation? That's indecent and disgusting.

        • DCW16

          That is a dumb statement . . . no one is "Imposing" religion on anyone . . .

          Read the Constitution . . . you dopy lieberals always get it backwards . . . but that's a condition of the leftist mind . . . up is down, in is out and right is left . . .

          The First Amendment to the United States Constitution provides that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ...."

          Why? This was because the founders saw the folly of established "State" Religions in Europe . . . which exist to this day . . . BUT IS LIMITED TO THE BEHAVIOUR OF THE FEDERAL GOVT . . . not the Citizens of the USA. How any semi-intelligent individual can Equate saying a Prayer at a meeting or in a school . . . is an "establishment of religion" . . . . IS PATENTLY INSANE ! ! !

      • daves

        Public officials do have the right to say a prayer whenever and wherever they choose. They just cannot lead a public prayer.

        I am a Christian and I will always fight for Christian rights. I am not aware that we have lost any rights since the country was founded.

        That's not my advice about praying alone, it comes from Jesus himself.

      • thenotimer

        The idea that Christians are a persecuted group in America is so ridiculous I can scarcely believe you actually voiced it here.

  • Junk Bin

    the mayo needs a backbone but he has to get the rod out of his arse first


    TOO many non-christians in Government!

  • ALHL

    Oh that figures, progressive atheists have contaminated CA, then OR and now, WA.

  • oldcoyote

    That mayor needs to be demoted to gutter duty.

  • randy

    Why don't they just kick his ass out of their town! Problem solved. Make it so hard for him to live there that he moves. Since whe does the one our few count as the majority?????

  • Jo

    i'm afraid this started way before Obama got into office. This nation has turned its back on God for way too long. Many warnings have come, but instead of turning to Him for help, our leaders have declared that we will overcome. Now, God is saying it is judgement time. Still, His churches do not know how to band together, united in His Spirit to cry out to Him to deliver us.

  • warpsix

    But can they mention the taking of a 9 year old wife by the Islamic profit(sic) . Most atheist are to wimpish to take on the Religion of pieces . So when/if you argue with them make them take a stand . Those wimps know we turn the other cheek but those Muslims don't .

  • worldwatchman

    Smith appears to be a very sad old man who soon will get to stand before Almighty God and explain to Him why he's acted like a horses arse when he was given a billion chances to clean up his vile thinking. Was his speech a result of a stroke? Could that have been a warning? As far as local, state and federal governments kicking His name out; all I can say with certainty is.......they'll get theirs when time is up for them.

  • netandyawho

    Its obvious Poor Mayor Jensen has never finished Christianity 101. If he has, he would know that there are three persons in one God. We have the Father, Son (Jesus), and Holy Spirit. Neither one is the other. But we know that the Father is God. The Son (Jesus) is God. And the Holy Spirit is God. Therefore, it makes no difference if the name of Jesus is used because He is God.

  • apf2

    The solution may very well be arranging meetings between atheists and their Maker...after all just because they don't belive it doesn't mean He doesn't exist.

  • Shadow_58

    Another bunch of atheist bringing down God's wrath on the citizens of their town. The citizens need to kick these evil people to the curb immediately.

  • StarDust Dolittle

    God has taken record of this in his book of life

  • Deb Marston

    Is it just me, or... is pushing (denying) Jesus out of the picture a tad tricky in such close proximity to a volcano?

    Seriously, I was not a Believer for a long time, but I never feared others' rights to free speech.

  • [email protected]


  • RomyMon

    Our Lord God sees and hears all these blasphemies and He will deal with the blasphemers in His time, which you and I who believe in Him and His son Jesus Christ, pray He may do soon. God in His infinite mercy and grace gives everyone, and that includes the clueless atheists and the abominable ACLU, a chance to repent. But there is a limit even to God's patience and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is proof of that. We Christians emulate our Savior as we pray for the enlightenment of those who mock Him. How unfortunate for all of them should they ignore our admonition and the wrath of God falls upon them! Repent you blasphemers or suffer the grave consequences of your rebellion!

  • Tbark Knives

    what we need to do is file the lawsuits ourselves for infringement of our 1st ammendment rights far as i know it states the gov shall make NO LAW concerning religeon there is Nothing in it that declares a seperation of anything , in a republic popular vote wins if they dont like it where there at move to ca or ny where all your libturd buddies live ,till then we will do it like we want to , counter suits for court cost against those who threaten lawsuits fine looser pays for everything including all lawyers fee's t

  • Taskmasterendgame

    Here is one Mayor that can go !

  • Peter S. Guild

    I love Jesus! I love Jesus! I love Jesus! Impeach Governments for infringing on U.S. Citizens's First Amendment to The U.S. Constitution Right To Freedom of Religion. It's a big mistake to deny that Jesus is our Savior. I love Jesus! I love Jesus! I love Jesus! Peter Guild, St. Joseph's Parish, Quincy, MA.

  • Ted R. Weiland

    "The latest victim to be raped of their First Amendment rights of free speech and religion is Longview, Washington."

    What!?! Quite the contrary. This is but another consequence of the First Amendment's polytheistic provision for the freedom of religion. Christianity is strictly monotheistic (Exodus 20:3-5, John 14:6, Acts 4:12, 2 Corinthians 6:14-18, 2 John 1:7-11, etc.), which is an unequivocal threat to the polytheism of all other religions as per Amendment 1's provision for the freedom of religion. This also explains why Christianity has been singled out as the United States government's religion of choice for selective persecution. The United States Constitutional Republic is essentially a resurrection of ancient Rome, which persecuted Christianity in the same fashion.

    Tragically most Christians hang their religious hat on Amendment 1 as if some great Christian principle can be found therein when, in fact, it is a blatant violation of the First Commandment (Thou shalt have no other god besides Yahweh).

    For more, see online Chapter 11 "Amendment 1: Government-Sanction Polytheism" at

  • Tom Kon

    It is unconstitutional to restrict the rights of those who want to mention God. Time to fight and counter sue! If that doesn't work with these Liberal idiots ghrn Civil disobedience is next! Time to stop these Liberal Nazi's in their tracks!

    • nickRay

      You can go to City Hall and blabber about God all you want. But the Mayor can't when he is conducting public business. I know you don't like this but the United States is not a theocracy and the FFs carefully designed it that way.

  • nickRay

    Just because Dave Jolly knos exactlynothing about the US Constitution appears to be no impediment to writing about it for this outlet of the Conservative Entertainment Complex. It helps that his readership is bigoted and self righteous and so has no use for any facts that might disturb their sanctimony and ignorance. It is true that Christian chauvinists can no longer use the power of government to impose their odd religious views on others, and I know that bothers y'all endlessly. Yet that is what the constitution clearly requires. Whether you like it or not Mr. Smith is restoring constituional government to Longview Washington. That makes him a better American than this Jolly character and the majority of you. Don't like it here? Go find yourselves a theocracy instead. I know of two: Iran and Saudi Arabia.

    • Sandra Hanford

      There is no mention of any seperation of church and state in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights. What it does say is that the government shall not impose it's authority on religion. In other words, no state religion like the Church of England. And no Mr Smith is not restoring constitutional government to Longview but a tyranty.

      • nickRay

        Now Sandra It may be true in Texas that your copy of the constitution has no first Amendment. Everybody else's Constitution does have it though. That's where the Founders separated church and state, ( that's sepArated, with an "a") as the author of the constitution, Thomas Jefferson, so eloquently phrased it. And far from imposing tyranny (only one "t" please!) he is faithfully following in Washington and Jefferson's footsteps. You, on the other hand, are wearing the Ayatollah's slippers.

  • progressiveandproud

    The town functioned just fine without prayers opening their meetings until the 1950s, but now we are supposed to believe the world will end if prayers are no longer allowed at meetings. Grow up, people.

    Practice your religion on your own time. Don't be like the pharisees who worshiped in public to impress others.

    • Sandra Hanford

      How about you practice your athiesm on your own time and stop trying to force the rest of us to obey you.

      • Wowbagger

        Dumbest comment ever! You win Sandra!

  • Martin H. Slusser

    Look for far more. Nazism and KKK see Christianity as 'those
    other Jews'. Hitler coined the phrase, but the KKK have always hated the
    faithful, always presented their version of it. KKK means Children of
    Satan/Dragon. Remember, as well, that after swearing peace and love for the Medianites,
    a city of Christians and Jews, the Medianites helped Mohamed conquer Mecca.
    That night, the Muslims returned to Medina and slaughtered all the inhabitants.
    The bodies were buried in the Great Plaza so the murderers would have the
    pleasure of hearing the bones of Jews and Christians crack under their feet. In
    order to halt Jesus from coming in to take his throne in Jerusalem, they made
    the Gate Beautiful a graveyard. And, prophecy says, all those bodies will be brought
    back to life by Christ and cast into the Pit. Since that was made known several
    years ago, a number of Muslim families have removed their ancestors from the cemetery.
    If you follow the Elohim, then you know what happens to Muslims after Jesus
    returns. They get punished severely for following an apostate religion.

  • NewCreationDave

    I'm a born-again Christian but this stuff is silly. You don't SAY prayers - you PRAY! What's the point of mumbling something with "Jesus Christ" in it? Either you are praying or not. Our nation's leaders are anti-God so they can't pray anyhow. Any Christian in attendance at any government function can pray before, during and after. Just pray and stop letting them make an argument of it. They can't stop you. Heck, they don't even know you're doing it! JUST DO IT! They didn't take "prayer" out of schools or anywhere else. They just took out the recitation of stuff with God in it. So what? Go ahead and pray. The dirty little secret is that prayer is still allowed EVERYWHERE ... ANYtime!

    • gotroy22

      Liberals think there is a Constitutional right to not be offended and the name of Christ offends them.

  • GrizzMann

    Can you mention Jesus in the muslim sense? How about Apollo, another son of god? Thor, yet another?

  • Dan Ridgway

    This is what Marxism is all about. Get rid of parents and religion and people become beholden to the state.

    • nickRay

      Actually, Marxism is about worker control of the means of production and, eventually, the withering away of government and direct popular democracy. At least in theory. Read Marx and Engels and see for yourself, if you're so inclined.

      • DCW16

        More insanity from Nick . . . Marx and Engels were the fathers of Communism and Fascism . . . the Party was always in Control . . . the workers were the slaves.
        The Party had the big cars, their own stores to shop at . . . while the workers shared . . . and what did they share Nick . . . they shared POVERTY . . .
        Examples today . . . Cuba, North Korea, and Venesula.
        My concern is the USA is heading down the same road . . . there are Marxists in the WH today . . .
        Only those "Programed" by the Public Education system could identify with this insanity today . . . marxism has been a dismal failure everywhere on the planet it has been tried.
        Marx was an atheist . . . you obviously identify . . .

        • nickRay

          Marx and Engels were in fact the main theoreticians of communism. Not Fascism. Probably have to give that grim distinction to Mussolini. North Korea is a Stalinist cesspool all right. But Cuba and Venezuela and especially China raised huge numbers of people out of the destitution that capitalism and imperialism forced on them. cuba not so much so although that was most likely the fault of the embargo. Fedel certainly imrpoved health and education standards for ordinary Cubans though. Thats why they crushed the Yanqui aggressors at La Batalla de Giron so badly the mercenaries didn't dare try again. I wasn't particularly endorsing state socialism, by the way. Just correcting your gross misrepresentation of what it actually is. You do remember it was the capitalist West that practiced slavery, right? That whole buying and selling human beings thing? Its the very essence of capitalism. The ultimate commodification.

        • DCW16

          Mussolini was an huge fan of Marx and Engels . . . Mussolini invented Fascism and it IS Communism light.

          Cuba is a Commie chithole . . . always has been. You been watching too many Mickey Moore movies . . . Che killed more people "Per Capita" in Cuba than any Marxist despot. Read Humberto Fontova's Book on Che Guavara to get the truth of life in the Cuban Gulag ! ! ! Cuban healthcare . . . lol . . . they could not save Hugo.

          Back to Mussolini . . . the man was a Devout Socialist, but thought the Bolchaviks were too harsh . . . the executed the wealthy and royalty . . . but Fascism merely confiscated their assets for the State and kept them alive to run them.

          A Leftist prophet

          The ideas of Benito Mussolini (1883-1945), the founder of Fascism, are remarkably similar to the ideas of modern-day Western Leftists. If Mussolini was not the direct teacher of modern-day Leftists, he was certainly a major predecessor. What Leftists advocate today is not, of course, totally identical with what Mussolini was advocating and doing 60 to 80 years ago in Italy but there are nonetheless extensive and surprising parallels. Early in the 20th century, he prophesied that the 20th century would be the century of Fascism and he got that right in that most of his ideas are still preached by the modern-day Left.

          In Mussolini's own words

          Let us listen initially to some reflections on the early days of Fascism by Mussolini himself -- first published in 1935 (See the third chapter in Greene, 1968).

          "If the bourgeoisie think they will find lightning conductors in us they are the more deceived; we must start work at once .... We want to accustom the working class to real and effectual leadership".

          And that was Mussolini quoting his own words from the early Fascist days. So while Mussolini had by that time (in his 30s) come to reject the Marxist idea of a class-war, he still saw himself as anti-bourgeois and as a saviour and leader of the workers. What modern-day Leftist could not identify with that?

          "Therefore I desire that this assembly shall accept the revindication of national trades unionism"

          So he was a good union man like most Leftists today.

          "When the present regime breaks down, we must be ready at once to take its place"

          Again a great Leftist hope and aspiration.

          "Fascism has taken up an attitude of complete opposition to the doctrines of Liberalism, both in the political field and in the field of economics".

          The "Liberalism" he refers to here would of course be called "Neo-liberalism" today -- the politics of Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan. Mussolini opposed such politics and so do Leftists today.

          "The present method of political representation cannot suffice".

          Modern-day Leftists too seem to seek influence outside the normal democratic channels -- from strikes and demonstrations to often successful attempts to get the courts to make law.

          "Fascism now and always believes in holiness and in heroism; that is to say in actions influenced by no economic motive"

          He here also rejects the Communist emphasis on materialism. Leftism to this day is often seen as a religion and its agitators clearly often long to be seen as heroic and unmaterialistic.

          "Fascism repudiates the conception of "economic" happiness"

          Leftists today also tend to regard consumerism as gross (or say they do as they drive off in their Volvos).

          "After the war, in 1919, Socialism was already dead as a doctrine: It existed only as a hatred".

          Socialism has never been a buzzword in North American Leftist circles but it certainly was for a very long time in the rest of the world. And to modern day British Leftists too socialism has a meaning that is more nostalgic and emotional than concrete and many would be prepared to admit that it is functionally "dead". Mussolini, however was 70 years earlier in announcing the death. It should be noted, however, that Mussolini was principally referring here to the policies and doctrines of his own former Socialist Party -- which was explicitly Marxist -- and which were far more extreme than the socialism of (say) Clement Attlee and the postwar British Labour party.
          "Fascism ..... was born of the need for action and it was itself from the beginning practical rather than theoretical".

          Modern-day Leftist demonstrators too seem to be more interested in dramatic actions than in any coherent theory.
          " one would there find no ordered expression of doctrine but a series of aphorisms, anticipations and aspirations".

          This is how Mussolini described early Fascist meetings. Modern-day Leftist agitators too seem more interested in slogans than in any form of rational debate.

  • Sylvia Sweet

    Dan Smith, when did public buildings become your building,that something new on me, a public building is any one's that wants to use it, what a fool you are,and all those people who wants to be pushed around by bullies in that town are fools. Say you are afraid of all the money you will loose? well bud you are going to loose a lot more than money

    • nickRay

      when did public buildings become churches? Public buildings are for the public's business -- all members of the public regardless of the religious beliefs or lack thereof. Dan Smith is making sure that's the case and that makes him an American hero. Want to see a fool? Go find a mirror.

      • DCW16

        Heard them say a prayer at Las Vegas Speedway last Sunday Nick . . . is it a church now? Which of the brothers are you . . . Dumb or Dumber?
        Lieberals are soooo much fun . . .

        • nickRay

          The Church of the Heavenly Hemi and AJ Foyt is their Jesus. Praise the Lord and pass another sixpack!

        • DCW16

          Yea nick . . . and they are mostly hard-working honest folks . . . unlike the Blue States that are mostly Bankrupt Dependant lieberal paradises . . .

        • nickRay

          You're the one that insisted on dragging religion into a professional sporting event. Not me pal. I have no problem with car races or car racing fans. Except for the noise levels I see no difference between races and football or baseball. I've been to a few tailgate parties myself. And as for your ignorant rant about the "bankrupt Dependant (sic)" blue states, its us blue staters subsidizing you welfare queens in the red states. See for yourself:

        • nickRay

          And just how much public business is conducted at the Las Vegas Speedway by the City Council DCW? You say I'm dumb but you can't grasp the difference between a prayer at a private race track and a government facility in a country whose Constitution explicitly bars mixing government and religion. So are you really just too dense to understand the difference or do you hate the Constutution? Its one or the other.

        • DCW16

          Council meeting . . . attended by the public . . . owned by the public . . .

          What Constitution you talking about? Not the US Constitution . . . read it LOON ! ! !

          Constitution says the Federal Government shall recognize NO DENOMINATION as the State Religion . . . nothing more . . . how do you extract "you cannot pray" . . . out of that?

        • nickRay

          "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
          Tell you what "constitutional conservative:" You highlight where in this complete text of the the first amendment guarantee of freedom of religion the word "denomination" or "state" appears and post it. And you were saying something about literacy? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

        • DCW16

          Dopy nick . . . the framers of the Constitution did not want the US federal govt to recognize any DENOMINATION as was and is the custom even today in Europe.
          Their language in NO WAY BANS Religion . . . it RESTRICTS the Feds from Recognizing a Religion as the National Religion. This has been explained to dopy lieberals many times over two hundred years . . . but you still labor under the dillusion that a Negative statement in the Constitution telling the Feds what they CANNOT DO . . . has something to do with what a CIty Council CAN DO? That is just loonie nick . . .
          This is why today . . . America has so many "Low Information Voters" . . . and so many folks that just want free stuff . . . Decades from now parents will be telling their children about the "Good Ole Days" in the USA . . . when folks had jobs, new cars, nice houses and bank accounts . . . . IT WILL ALL BE A FOND MEMORY ! ! !

        • nickRay

          LOL. DCW spends an entire week insisting the 1st amendment says things it doesn't. Now he inventshis own personal interpretation of it and changes the subject to some of his other, unrelated mania's and delusions. Well he's a Tea Partier. Can't expect any different I guess. He's certainly never heard of the 14th amendment. Nor has it soaked through his poor addled brain that nobody (Ibut him) argues the 1st amendment "bans religion" (I'l spare everybody the superfluous capitalization). That's the point. By prohibiting government from favoring one over another the framers ensured that everyone would be free to practice their religion. Everybody is free to pray all they f-wording want to. But public officials conducting public business can't do it or endorse anyone else doing it. And, may I add, thank God. But of course that's not DCW or the other fundys on this thread are about.He doesn't want, say, Muslims to be free to practice their religion. He'd give birth to twin calves if the city council opened an official meeting with a Muslim prayer of course (Gawd forbid!). It's all about him shoving his beliefs down everybody's throats. And that just makes him a very very very bad American and a Tea Partier - which is pretty much the same thing. But this is boring now. I'm done.

  • wildeagleone

    The citizens that sit around and complain and not take action by marching on city hall are the ones to blame for this ban. If you don't fight for your rights, they will never be given back and God will come down on you as well as those that oppose him. Ban together and March On This City NOW, take it back and recall all on the city council

  • DilloTank

    Violation of First Amendment. End of discussion. Beginning of armed rebellion?

  • Aunt Dot

    THIS is just what that sob in our white house wants. God is part of our lives... if you choose to not respect that, I cannot respect your anti-God rhetoric. We can and should start 3 minutes earlier in order to start with our prayer OR you can wait outside while we say our prayer and then enter. Your choice... this shows respect on both sides!!

  • R Stone

    There is NO power without the Name of Jesus Christ, because God made that name have power... only. These are the normal steps to persecution that will come.... unless....

  • TAM44

    The demoncrats has turned this country into a cesspool of filth, just look at the trash in the white house and in the obama administration.

  • S Robinson Scurlock

    Read Acts - it is the same spirit - rising even stronger now because his time is at hand - the spirit of anti Christ has always been here - but in the USA it rears its ugly head! What can they take after they have taken everything? What can we give more than He gave for us? Be bold as a lion - like those who went before us! I pray for strength to if need be - to make a list of all my goods prepared for them, just for the privilege of whispering His name - Jesus! I pray it will emanate from every tongue and in every language! .

  • Jeff Thomas

    still cant figure who they are that hate Christ huh? let me give you a clue..THEY killed Him and they claim they are Gods chosen people...

  • steven

    can we be any stupier than that !!!!

  • George Wentzel

    You worthless Jerks keep it up, there's special accommodations waiting for you at the end of the line.


    It's not just the atheists.

  • Jude O'Connor

    Freedom of speech is gone.

  • Robert Alexander

    Too bad most preachers neglect to use Gods name ie Yahweh

  • Don

    I can understand why the name of Jesus might not be included in a pray. After all the founder of this country used God a number of time but not Jesus. Some of the founders said the New Testament was to far out for them. There are five great religions of the world and we Christians are the only one that believe in Jesus. We would have a fit if each prayer we heard in a public place mentioned Mohammad or Buda.

  • Shermer

    If a Muslim gets elected to the council, and a Hindu, and a Native American, and a Jew, will the other councillors sit respectfully while they have their prayers?

    • DCW16

      "If a Muslim gets elected to the council" . . . Why don't you go to Dearborn and see what they do . . . lol

      • Shermer

        What has that to do with just one being elected in Longview?

  • Sol

    This is great news! Another victory for the separation of Church and State.

    • truepatriotintx

      Oh yeah, that fictitious "separation" you people speak of. There is NO SUCH Thing!

      • Sol

        The only thing fictitious in this discussion is the Jesus nonsense. God had a kid! Doesn't get much funnier than that! It's like a soap opera or something.

        • Deborah G

          The only soap opera is the fools following around a man like Obama and expecting things to get better

    • Deborah G

      Great news? Are you ill? The secularism and liberalism is what has caused all the poverty and grief you are now seeing. The 10 most poverty stricken cities are under the control of democrats /Liberals. Prosperity comes to places God blesses. I'll stay where he is thanks

  • Ostara Norrstjarnan

    Religion has absolutely NO PLACE in government. Never did, never will. Your 'Christian' principles are older than Christianity and don't belong to your belief system. Way to get it right, Longview.

    • truepatriotintx

      As usual, you have it completely backwards...Government has NO PLACE in Religion, not visa-versa. You have twisted the forefathers meaning of this and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

  • Paul

    It's a lot easier to take council meetings seriously if people aren't looking to an imaginary sky fairy for guidance.

    • posthuf

      What I can't understand is if atheists really don't believe there is a god, what are they so afraid of that they refuse to let those who believe there is one mention His name!

      • Paul

        Ummm, that's the definition of an atheist. Anyhow - it's not a case of being afraid of anything, the issue is they object to people making stupid decisions and infringing on other people's rights based on their beliefs. You can believe what you want, just don't expect me to live my life in accordance with your beliefs.

  • tim

    a victory for freedom of speech and freedom of religion. nobody should be forced to bow down to somebody's imaginary friend in the sky.

  • John

    How about you stop believing in magic and join the rest of the human race in the 21st century? Just a thought.

    • Deborah G

      You happen to own the 21rst century? just asking because it seems that is something you have about as mush right to as I do. May Jesus forgive you.

  • Brandon Gould

    It wasn't becasue of the non-religious... they did this to make it so as to not step on the toes of OTHER religions. Wow, apparently gullaible and hard headed.

  • Curt Donelson

    Is christ so powerless than a simple city council prayer can ban him from the entire city? Turn that angry eye to a mirror, fundamentalists, and you'll see the true root of all your problems.

  • Guest

    This sham of a website keeps deleting any opposing viewpoints. First Amendment, indeed!

    • FlickDude

      Only the penitent man shall pass! Penitent! Penitent!

  • Jansen Waddell

    "Christ Banned From Another US City"

    LOL what an overly dramatic headline. It should be more like "State-sponsored Religious Coercion Banned from Another Secular US City"

  • Sean Metts

    Wow, some of you actually suggested that this Smith person should die. Real sick people out there. Guess can't prove that your religion is more real than any other religion that exists so let it be. Thanks.

  • Guest

    Let's just allow a prayer for each recognized God, there were only around 3,000 of them at the last count. Not sure how long that would leave for the meeting though. Hey ho...

  • Owen Harper

    God doesn't belong in public places and councils, If you want to pray do it in the comfort of your own homes where your opinion isn't being forced upon others. Not praying in meetings does not support atheism or shun Christianity, it merely stops one religion being pushed down the throats of those that don't believe in it or want it.

  • Let's be reasonable

    You seem to be missing the point of the Establishment Clause in the 1st Amendment. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. . . ." Mentioning Jesus (or Thor, Odin, Baal, etc.) shows a preference toward a particular religion. The town council is a government body and therefore shouldn't show a preference toward Christianity or any other religion. I understand Christians are always looking to connect with the history of their religion by making it seem as if their being persecuted but this is ridiculous.

  • Joker

    Religion is SO unpractical and out dated it isn't even funny. Religion has absolutely no business being involved in politics, the workplace and education unless of course you are studying religion. Just think
    what your workplace would be like if it was run thy same way as God runs things here on earth.....leave a set of instructions so long that they constantly conflict with each other, totally disappear and expect things to run like a fine Swiss watch. If any employee falls out of line or bad mouths the boss - forever will you suffer! For those that do a great job however they do not believe in the boss - forever will you suffer! For all the lazy buggers that do as little as possible however believe in the boss - forever you will be rewarded forever. We must not let the real world operate like this therefore there is no room for religion in the politics, the workplace or education system.

    • DCW16

      Can you say that again in "English" . . .

  • robheggie1

    Wonderful news.

    How ironic that the author thinks "freedom of religion" means the freedom to force your religion onto other people!

    • posthuf

      The religion of atheism is being forced on our nation by a handful of "tolerant" people like you. What are you so afraid of if there really is no God?

  • Let's be reasonable

    Shouldn't we be slaughtering goats at all public meetings?

  • Matthew Medina

    I'm one of those "cranky atheists". Allow me to clarify, since there seems to be some misunderstanding. We have no problem with anyone exercising their freedom of religion. What we have a problem with is government endorsement of a single religion to the exclusion of others. That's AGAINST the establishment clause of the First Amendment. When the people elect others to represent them in a democracy, they must represent ALL their citizens, not simply the majority and their beliefs. If the elected city representatives wish to pray before council meetings, they can do so without it being part of official government business. No one's rights to profess their faith are being impugned, they can still pray on their own time.

  • Joker

    Another thing I would like to mention is that the trend today seems to be that when anyone does not get their way they have been "bullied". The misuse of this word takes away the real meaning of it and will prevent it from being taken seriously when it needs to be.

  • disqus_we4Birw45q

    If prayer was so essential, what did they do before it was introduced "in the 1950s"? Sounds like it was the religious folks who wanted to change the tradition, thus undermining the separation of church and state.

  • Guest

    Make sure you delete some more comments in your quest to live in a bubble unvarnshed by facts and the reason of the civilized world.

  • smithware

    Are prayers to Thor still allowed? He's about as real as Jesus is so probably not I guess.

  • zack g

    The problem I have with this article is you're forgetting that America is a democratic republic not a democracy. Therefore even if a thousand christians demanded the right to mention jesus that does not give them the right to infringe on his first amendment rights to be free of religion. In a democratic republic, everyone's rights are protected under the constitution and the majority can not infringe on the minority. The founders were aware of the downside of democracy where the majority can create mob rule over the minority.

    • Let's be reasonable

      This! ^^^

  • Wowbagger

    Willfully missing the point again. It's quite simple, really. You've been doing it wrong since the 1950s, and it's taken all this time to put it right. You're free to believe and worship what you like, but NOT to force it on others in Government-sponsored meetings and buildings. The separation of church and state is fundamental to a true democracy. You wrote the rules, don't complain when someone tries to enforce them!

  • Roger Shike

    Awesome. Another step towards the cure for religion. The age of reason is here.

    • DCW16

      "The age of reason is here."
      I would suggest the age of reason is past . . . why you say? Today we turn out abject morons out of our public schools and universities. We believe in nonsense like Gorebull Warming. We are dumb enough to elect a man with ZERO experience to be pres. We think "guns" kill people and that mooslimes will be good citizens. Critical thinking left the building decades ago . . .

      Now we are left with mobs of non-thinkers who just Want Stuff . . . Free Stuff . . .
      When the illegal aliens take away you rights and your country . . . there will be NO Great Generation to bail you out this time . . . they are all dead ! ! !
      The weak minded lieberals are all that is left . . . especially in Dimmicrap states, many that are facing Bankruptcy today.

  • UH

    Leave it to fundamentalist Christian prostelytizers to continue their cherry picking ways when referencing the Constitutional Amendments.

    Article [I] (aka The First Amendment)
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
    religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging
    the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the
    people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for
    a redress of grievances.

    The first Amendment is just as much about freedom of religion as it is about free speech. This is know as an Establishment Clause. And there are two interpretations for these, neither of which infringes on anyone's right to free speech. These are 'separation' and 'accommodation'. It is the second of these that has been used in this case and does the best job of meeting the wants and needs of everyone involved. 'Separation' on the other hand would ban outright the use of any religious prayer in any governmental function.

    It is nice that you all like A Book, but there are many more from which to choose.

    -An Actual Washington Resident

    • DCW16

      A washington resident . . . lol Do you drive a Prius?
      Saying a prayer is Religion or Establishing Religion?
      Only in the lieberal mind . . . its been a Tradition at council meetings for decades . . . like since the city was founded.
      Separation . . . is a concept of the lieberal mind . . . for 200 years they got it all wrong . . . then a lieberal in the 60's figured it out . . . insane ! ! !

  • Matt

    Christianity in the US is finally evolving into something better, more consistant and proper. Atheism. And your constitution calls for seperation of church and state.

  • Fredrick The Mad

    I'm sorry but this line,

    The latest victim to be raped of their First Amendment rights of free speech and religion is Longview, Washington.

    Please learn how to write and express a thought properly then return to try and make your asanine point.

  • Dave Houlbrooke

    Kinda seems like they're wasting time praying when they should be governing.

  • Deep Diver

    Wow, Christians really are clueless. Keeping specific imaginary deities out of government meetings is precisely what the Constitution requires.

    So if you want to live in a theocracy, you are against the founding fathers and have more in common with the religious leaders of Iran, Saudi Arabia and Somalia.

    Article 11: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." - Treaty of Tripoli, unanimously ratified by the US senate on June 7, 1797

  • Numalum

    Pray to your own god in your own time. Council meetings are not restricted to Christians only, so why do you insist on forcing YOUR religion onto everyone else? You wouldn't be happy if an Islamic prayer was said at a public meeting. This is pure selfishness. Is your definition of persecution not having everyone agree with you?

    "The latest victim to be raped of their First Amendment right"?
    This is not an appropriate use of the word "raped".

  • Deep Diver

    To the author of this article, could you please show us specifically where in the US Constitution your little god is mentioned? I can't seem to be able to find any reference to your god, or this person called Jesus... you seem confident that it's there, so please provide us with a reference.

  • Deep Diver

    Actually, Jay Spears touches on this topic perfectly via song, "Smak Dem Christians Down"

    It cute to watch these little Christians pretend to be perpetually persecuted. They are nothing but a bunch of uneducated, whiners. Your Jesus will soon be considered as imaginary as Zeus, get over it. The ancient Greeks did.

  • Rafael

    Jesus was not banned from the city. You can worship your god at home, you can practice your Christian faith in your church, you can even go out on the streets and scream to the whole town that you are in love with Jesus Christ. But this is public affairs. I'm with the "one sad atheist". They should bang the gavel and start the meeting. The City Hall is not the place to worship gods.

    • Wowbagger

      And how do we know he was a 'sad' atheist? He may have been spectacularly happy. I am.

      • Rafael

        I quoted "one sad atheist" because this is how the author wrote. I don't agree with that. I am being ironic about it.

        • Wowbagger

          I knew that. I was just picking up on the author's biased and loaded assumptions about the personality of someone (and indeed something) he knows nothing about.

  • Deep Diver

    Q: What's the difference between an Islamic theocracy and a Christian theocracy?

    A: Absolutely nothing.

    • DCW16

      You obviously have not read either book . . . or a History Book either . . . ignorance is bliss . . . to a lieberal . . . but they always have opinions of things they know nothing about.
      Most . . . like you, don't have Clue One ! ! !

      • Deep Diver

        You know who else were liberals? The founding fathers. This is why people laugh at Christians.

        • DCW16

          ONce again Deep . . . your Ignorance abounds . . .

          The term Classical Liberal was the basis for Western Democracies . . . it was about Free Speech, Freedom of Religion, Freedom of Association and thought.

          Last Dimmicrap that could pass for a Classical Liberal . . JFK . . . who would be considered a radical right winger today . . . go back and listen to his speeches.

          This is NOT modern lieberalism . . . which is a hybrid of marxism/fascism and Socialism . . . good read . . . .


  • Agarnier

    If your gullibility allows you to believe in a saviour named Jesus who supports and comforts pedophiles and liars within his churches, you should at least respect other's rights not to be oppressed by your thoughtless insanity. Religion has no place in the reality of human affairs. There are serious problems facing humanity that have been exacerbated by the blatant dissension of religious doctrines since the beginning of recorded history (Gilgamesh). Fairy tales cannot solve or placate the problems of inequality in human societies.

  • Michael Drient

    Religion should not be imposed on others. If you want to believe in your fictional fairy tales that have been proven wrong that's fine by me but when its forced upon other people i take issue with it and so I support this towns modernizing choice.

  • Butterfly Christie

    Jesus was not banned from public schools. It just can't be prayer that is forced on the rest of the students. It can't be from an official public school employee. Students can pray on their own all they want. This isn't about restricting religion. It's about the opposite, keeping government away from religion so one religion will not be forced on another with the government. This protects the freedom of religion. There is a reason why these things only happen at government funded property.

  • rich_bown

    "In today’s America, the complaining of the one tramples on the constitutional rights of the many." the whole point is to treat all equally, not have the majority run roughshod over ANY minority, regardless of race, sex, religion, or what their favourite beatles song is. Thankfully the founding fathers of the US knew that freedom of religion also means freedom from religion.

    • King ♔ Dominic

      "Imagine" is mine. Anyone?

      In fact, let's have everyone sing "Imagine" at the start of council meetings. Just the first verse about "no religion too", five times over. Everyone would be free not to join in...

      • rich_bown

        Love that idea! And if you don't like the Beatles just shut up and sit in the corner as the majority love them!

        • Wowbagger

          I don't like the Beatles, though I grudgingly endorse the sentiment of 'Imagine'. But then I have no soul.

        • nickRay


      • DCW16

        Written by John Lennon . . . the guy that followed the Guru in India . . . laughable . . .
        It was a "Socialist Anthem" . . . nothing more . . . they loved it in the old Soviet Union.

      • nickRay

        what King D!

  • King ♔ Dominic

    You honestly don't see anything wrong, with you getting your beliefs shouted about in a meeting that represents people 'of all faiths and none', when nobody else is allowed to talk about their faith (or lack thereof)?

    So if the majority were atheist, you would be fine if every meeting began with a lecture on how God is illogical and can't exist? You would of course be allowed to step out of the room while it was going on, if you disagreed.

    Or how about starting every meeting with a moment where Democrats can stand and give a lecture about socialism - but no equal chance for Republicans to respond? Republicans would, of course, be allowed to step out of the room while the democrats had their lecture.

    No: these meetings are places for EVERYONE, not just the majority (silent or otherwise). If the majority want to sing 'the Red Flag' at the beginning of the meeting, they don't get to do that either. The state cannot come down on the side of one party or one candidate or one religion. Until the constitution allows the state to promote a single religion/political party while not mentioning the others, you are not allowed to do this. Equal airtime for all faiths, or NO airtime.

    Christ, I know more about your constitution than you actual Americans do...

  • Scott Raively

    Here's a novel idea. How about you pray to yourself, should you so choose. I'm an atheist, and even I know that Jesus said prayer was a private, personal matter.

  • Guest

    Separation of church and state. Pretty simple stuff. If you don't like it, try moving to pretty much any other country. kthxbye.

  • rich_bown

    Matthew 6:6 "but when you pray, go away by yourself, shut the door behind you, and pray to your Father in private."
    why are you praying at public meetings?

  • rich_bown

    Matthew 6:6 "but when you pray, go away by yourself, shut the door behind you, and pray to your Father in private."
    why are you praying at public meetings?

    • Wowbagger

      Ha, I was just about to post that Rich. So, even the churches have been getting it wrong all these years :)

      • rich_bown

        Yeah, even though it's written down clear as day, there is some weird translation of it that reads "pray loud and hard at any given moment, especially outside of church" that politicians have picked up on.

        • Wowbagger

          It's all there written clearly between the lines, in bold white ink on a clear white background. But only the faithful can see it.

  • SpaghettiMonster

    Seperation of Church and State. Pretty simple stuff. If you dont like it, try moving to pretty much any other country. kthxbye.

  • Guest

    Separation of Church and State. Pretty simple stuff. If you dont like it, try moving to pretty much any other country. kthxbye.

  • Guest

    LOL, my comments keep getting deleted.

    • Wowbagger

      I thought that, but then I sorted the posts to show "Newest" first using the "Discussion" dropdown tab.

      • SpaghettiMonster

        yep saw that too. what a horrible site design. after posting a comment the default sort is to effectively hide your comment? terrible.

        • Wowbagger

          Yep, clunky. Still, at least common sense seems to be rising to the top this way :)

  • Alfred Laurence

    Wait a deuce, an omnipotent, omnipresent deity is subject to will of man? Huh, guess that makes your god not so powerful after all.
    Obviously you people don't stop to think of the irony and contradiction you spew before you spew it.

    • Deep Diver

      Precisely. If this god were real, why doesn't he just stand up for himself rather than have the uneducated, whining Christians stand up for him?

  • Jessica

    Would you agree to share your prayer time with a muslim, hindu, or sikh. Probably not, how dare you presume your fairy is better than anyone elses. Sad fact is youre all delusional. Feel better soon

  • Lautaro Arino

    The stat cannot express any religious affiliation, ofcourse. That would be discriminatory.The ammendments are mostly there to make sure the majority does not oppress the minorities, no?

  • Public_Citizen

    Once again the overwhelming majority are being subjected to the tyranny of one person who has a record of being a crank.
    Somebody in the jurisdiction needs to look over the charter for this municipality and any other documents such as a published Order of Business. The Invocation may be found to be a required element for a lawful meeting, If that is found to be a fact then any action taken at a meeting without an Invocation would be null and void.

  • Jeff Thomas

    have you figured the antichrist movement that are behind this arent gods chosen people yet?

  • Richard Eastridge

    Look we are aloud to and pray to whom, we please but at least with jesus you see peace and people working together as one . So As Americans we are ONE NATION UNDER GOD. if we dont at least no that one simple thought, look what is happening to our nation this illegal alien is not gonna let this go, we are gonna have to fight together for our childrens future ok. its america stays free for our children or we lose this nation to a worthless piece of crap like this imposter and thief. That is our White House and now this maggot won't let our Children take tours. your choice . I take Jesus.

  • posthuf

    Anybody with a lick of common sense and half a ball would take moves to change the laws! What on Earth are you idiots going to do with your local muslims protest that you don't allow allah to be praised in your meetings?

  • DE Navarro

    You know, quite honestly, it's as much theory and conjecture that the "sky fairy" doesn't exist as that he/it does. It's really a 50/50 proposition. No way to prove either way to others.

    So it comes down to either believing or not.

    Today is man's day - the day of judgment of men.

    There's a day coming when that ceases and some people are going to be pretty shocked.

    You don't know Him because you don't walk with Him.

    I do.

    It's about as preposterous telling me He doesn't exist as telling me I haven't typed this message to you.

    Go ahead, get angry, yell at me, hit the down arrow, accuse me of believing magic, accuse me of believing in fantasy and fairy stuff -- I really don't care. When you personally know Him and know you are right, all the whining and stupidity doesn't matter.

  • Carolyn Crain

    As a local Washingtonian I thought I'd let you know that the objections of the one supported by a few responding commenters have been heard and overruled. Longview will still pray and IF that clergy of the week so chooses they will exercise their freedom of speach and their freedom from religous oppression and invoke the name of Jesus Christ. This very morning our Clark County Commissioners held a hearing on beginning each meeting with an invocation which we have not done before. After comments from the people mostly against it a comments from others like myself who were for it as long as it does not turn into a prayer meeting, :), the vote was taken and invocations will be held at the beginning of meetings weekly from now on. Can I sing that I feel freer than the sparrow now that no one can say thou shalt not pray?

  • ConservaDave2

    This is called the "tyranny of the few," when one nasty, intolerant, hateful, bigoted Christophobe selfishly getting his way at the expense of the many. We need a Dept. of Common Sense to put morons like Danny-boy Smith in his place.

  • cat22463

    america deserves what it gets. christians didnt vote in the last election they dont stand up and pull the evil left from office we are sodom and judgment is coming hopefully to barrys media first

  • Jessica A. Mays

    I live in Longview, Washington and this mayor is worthless. He just sits back and lets the town go to pots. The creek running through the town is full of human waste and garbage and people have told the town leaders about it and the towns people were rude. Makes me puck!!!! Washington State makes Illinois look good

  • Deborah G

    I think every Christian should seek places where they are welcome, like Texas , Missippi and so on. If we have to relocate the entire Christian community like the gun manufacturers then so be it. I'm moving south from NY to get away from the disgusting flow of liberalism and that stupid Bloomberg who wants to make his gay lifestyle something we should just accept. And his girlfriend>? Just a beard he's a twinkie.